New clutch: First gear sometime fails...

Seb_

Seb_

Give me some frogs.
Site Supporter
Hi people. As I reported in my blog:
http://www.micra.org.uk/entries/83-Pis-ed-off.-Really.

I changed the clutch with a new one. It's a lot better when I change gears, excepted sometimes, when I want to start from a red traffic light for example, the first gear doesn't properly engage, the gearstick blocks before being completely in the left upper corner, I've got to put it back on neutral point, and then re engage it.

It happens approximatively one time on ten, but believe me, it's really annoying.

The auto repair service who changed the clutch doesn't find what the problem is, they said they didn't moved the gearbox, only the clutch, so it has nothing to do with their job.

So actually I payed 800euros to have a car doesn't starting properly, whereas it was perfect before.

So any idea is welcome, thanks a lot.

Seb
 
ah! thats not good, i have no clue about this kinda thing tbh hope frank gets a whiff of this thread maybe he could help,
good luck! (Y)
 
I already talked about it to the doc Sed

I feel so scruwed up, I've paid very expensive stuff to have a car who doesn't start properly any longer... and the guy really doesn't seem to know how to solve the problem...

bad clutch model ? damaged gearbox during the installation?

I don't want to sell the car but ...
 
Seb_ said:
I already talked about it to the doc Sed

I feel so scruwed up, I've paid very expensive stuff to have a car who doesn't start properly any longer... and the guy really doesn't seem to know how to solve the problem...

bad clutch model ? damaged gearbox during the installation?

I don't want to sell the car but ...
Click to expand...

dont beat yourself up! its probably something really simple! dont give up!
 
You can't change the clutch without removing the gearbox.

From what you say, one of 3 things has happened....

1. They have replaced the clutch but failed to adjust the clutch cable properly. 5 minute job to fix.

2. They have replaced the clutch and damaged the linkage. Unlikely but possible.

3. They have adjusted your clutch (Incorrectly) and charged you 800 Euros for it!

Personally, I'd pop into another garage and explain what has happened. The best way to find a fault with a car is to tell the mechanic another mechanic has been at it! Just explain you want them to check to see if the gearbox has been removed/refitted.
If the clutch has been done, there will be evidence. Bolts will be cleaner where they have been removed. Fresh gearbox oil may be round the speedometer drive, old gear oil will be around the driveshafts.
 
getawaycar said:
You can't change the clutch without removing the gearbox.
Click to expand...
Interesting, so they already lied to me with this.


getawaycar said:
From what you say, one of 3 things has happened....

1. They have replaced the clutch but failed to adjust the clutch cable properly. 5 minute job to fix.

2. They have replaced the clutch and damaged the linkage. Unlikely but possible.

3. They have adjusted your clutch (Incorrectly) and charged you 800 Euros for it!

Personally, I'd pop into another garage and explain what has happened. The best way to find a fault with a car is to tell the mechanic another mechanic has been at it! Just explain you want them to check to see if the gearbox has been removed/refitted.
If the clutch has been done, there will be evidence. Bolts will be cleaner where they have been removed. Fresh gearbox oil may be round the speedometer drive, old gear oil will be around the driveshafts.
Click to expand...

Really appriated hints mate, thanks !

Seb
 
seb said that the bite is fairly high, (which pretty much rules out a cable adjustment problem) so other possibilities are the oil they put in is too thick (someone posted they had stiff/crunching gears after an oilchange a while back).
also the spline may be snagging/tight, making the clutch release on one side only and dragging on the other face (tho this would affect all gears in theory)
 
if i ever have to take my car to a garage which i hate. i always make sure i get my old/broken parts back. about your gear/clutch problem ive had this same problem occasionally, when do you feel that the clutch engages. pedal near floor or pedal at top? if its near the floor then it may just need adjusted. :)
 
Yes Stani, the clutch blocks even when pedal is on the floor.

Thanks to all for your support, that's the spirit.
I'll keep you up to date tomorrow, when I'll get the car back (finally, I hope.)

Cheers mates

Seb
 
If im reading your post right I get this with my car all the time mate, Your in neutral, clutch down and try to go into first, but the gearstick just wont push up far enough?
try lifting the clutch up very slowly, with my car, when the clutch reaches the biting point the gear will drop in nicely, im not all that good on gearboxes but i think its syncromesh not 'meshing' properly???
try that next time, might work(Y)
 
Stani hit the nail on the head!

If anyone doubts a garages work, ask for the parts they replaced. Ask in what way they are unservicable.

I don't mind when people ask in any or garages, I personally like the thought the customer is taking an interest.

If the garage hasn't changed the clutch, they won't have an old clutch to show you. No point going back asking them now as you can guarantee their skip would have been emptied yesterday, LOL!

Putting the correct gear oil in and ensuring the cluch splines aren't badly worn as Frank suggested are the sort of things most decent garages would do anyway when changing a clutch. Although, in my experience, Micras aren't as fussy about their gearbox oil as some cars. Usually when cars have the wrong gearbox oil in they crunch when cold (if the oil is too thick) or warm (when the gearbox oil is too thin).

Gearbox and clutch problems usually show up more in 1st and reverse as there is more load on the gearbox as its trying to get a stationary thing moving rather than keep a moving thing going.
 
The guy showed me the old clutch, they really replaced it, also I really feel the difference, acceleration after bite are less hesistating. When the gear doesn't fail...

This is the invoice they gave me:

facture.jpg

embra=clutch
huile=oil
bv=gearbox

B19C5 don't know what is this type of gearbox oil ... also I don't know what CRAMPON is, and I can't find the nissan code on google...
 
Seb mine has the same problem and its traced down to worn gearlinkage bushes at the gearbox end. another symptom if its bad enough would be the gearstick rattles annoyingly in 5th

whenever i stop from 3rd 4th 5th and try to engage 1st it resists initially but as i keep pushing it it eventually slips in. alternatively a speedier way i found was to lift the clutch briefly to rotate the gears and then it slots into 1st no prob, as though the synchro meshes were misaligned and cant be meshed unless you respin em slightly.

there's 2 springs that return the stick to the center, one is under the gearstick that centers the stick from the left and the other heavier spring is within the gearbox that centers the stick from the right.

what happens is that every time you push the stick right to select 5th or reverse your pushing against the heavy return spring in the gearbox. this applies twisting stresses along the entire gear linkage & bushes and over time wears them out becoming slacker until the selector shaft isn't turned enough to align with 1st or 2nd gears even though the stick itself is pushed far left.

pushing the stick left doesn't wear the bushes much because the opposing spring is acting against the stick itself therefore minimal twisting stress at the links.

reason why it could also rattle in 5th is cos once the selector is in place it locks its position against the heavy gearbox return spring and so the gear linkages are then fully unloaded plus the return spring under the stick is fully slack cos it only pulls the stick from the left. so with a fully loose gearlinkage the high engine vibrations at 3k rpm rattles along the gearlinkages and stick.

anyway back when i replaced the bushes by lathing new exact fitting ones, selecting 1st 2nd was a breeze.
 
Very interesting polly!can you upload a pic of te bushes you're talking about so I'll show them?or the item reference number if possible.Thanks again!
Seb
 
here's the gear linkage

k750 (11)..JPG

took cat & heatshield off for access
k750 (12)..JPG

unbolt from gearstick
k750 (13)..JPG

unbolt from gearbox
k750 (14)..JPG

grinded the universal joint out to regrease bush
k750 (17)..JPG

reinstall
k750 (21)..JPG
pencil.png
 
Thanks a lot Polly

Still no news from the auto repair service, they still keep the car, I hope I will get it back for the week end... Thinking about buying a more recent 1.4 ...

Cheers

Seb
 
Yo Mates
got the car back this evening AT D@MN LAST, the garage guy explained me he went to Nissan and they told him he had "inverted a swrew" when he moved back the gearbox.
I drove the car to come back at home and it was ok for the moment. I hope it will stay like this...
Anyway I'm coming to see a nice 1.4 tomorrow, pity but all this story guted me a bit of the car :(

Cheers

Seb
 
Seb_ said:
Yo Mates
got the car back this evening AT D@MN LAST, the garage guy explained me he went to Nissan and they told him he had "inverted a swrew" when he moved back the gearbox.
I drove the car to come back at home and it was ok for the moment. I hope it will stay like this...
Anyway I'm coming to see a nice 1.4 tomorrow, pity but all this story guted me a bit of the car :(

Cheers#



Seb
Click to expand...

thats good hope it stays like that fingers crossed. are you gonna buy the 1,4?
 
dont give up "off" the car that easily STICK WITH IT we all know its these little storys that make your car diffrent to other peoples
and most these garagis arent sounding to genuine ££ as people here mention
 
Update mates:
I've did 60km today, the gears are more and more hard getting in. Now even 2nd and 3rd gears fail, there the same resistance as before and the gear stick pops and returns in neutral posisiton, wich is very dangerous in roundabout, highway insertion etc.
I will come back at the garage monday evening, after work but I don't think it's going to help in any way...

So basically I've lost 800euros, my car and I can't sell it anymore either.

I sadly think it's gonna end in an insurance expertise valuation assessment, which took months.

Good bye Black Devil Car 1.0...

Seb, very disappointed atm.
 
tell the garrije to buy the car of you -------- INSIST! they caused this crap so go theyr dont be sad but do get MAD at them remember that last part
 
sorry to hear that. but don't give up too soon. get back to the garage and tell them they haven't done the job properly, theve messed up.
 
Thanks to all for your support, really really appreciated in those hard times.
My father will go tomorrow morning to the garage, well decided to complain. I hope the garage will accept to take the car, reopen it to see what have failed, and that It will happy end, without insurance valuation a.k.a goodbye BDC 1.0...
Got my finger crossed
Cheers
Seb
 
Seb_ said:
Thanks to all for your support, really really appreciated in those hard times.
My father will go tomorrow morning to the garage, well decided to complain. I hope the garage will accept to take the car, reopen it to see what have failed, and that It will happy end, without insurance valuation a.k.a goodbye BDC 1.0...
Got my finger crossed
Cheers
Seb
Click to expand...


hope it works out for you seb. all the best .:)
 
Heading toward insurance valuation ... will take about 2 months... gutted...
Seb.
 
I got to leave the car at the garage, then my assurance will send one of its expert employee to open and study each bit of the clutch/gearbox, like the Edward Norton' character in Fight Club, to see if the garage has made a mistake during the disk replacement.
Then he will write a report to explain what is the problem and who is reponsible, and eventually ask for a financial compensation. This is my only solution right now, excepted base ball bats and black cowls.
 
Hope you get this sorted mate! Its amaizing what garages can get away with! how can they survive when they dont even know how to change a clutch!? as frank says, they want dispatching.
 
Yo peeps !
I got the car back yesterday evening ! The garage called and said me: "Indeed you were right, the clutch was faulty, we sent it back to Nissan and they gave me a new one, also the gearbox oil we putted was not the right one; so we ordered some 75W90 GL4 especially for you"
I've done 100KM, the gearbox is smooooth. I think they have might fear about the insurance guy story. Feels good.

The black 1.0 K11 adventures can go on. I already have blog update to do.

Cheers !
Seb
 
a garrage putin wrong oil????? gear box as well stupid???? you want to tell them-----6 mths to see if the gear box holds out
and change garages!!!!!
but i feel the joy another micra kerb crawling again yeah!!
 
lol thanks pals,the 10w40 was for the engine they are not that lame,but they putted gearbox oil for french little cars like saxo because they didnt had 75w90 and they didnt wanted to bother with that ;)
cheers
 

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