Skinners Sprint Micra

[pollyp]

It's just running on the standard Ecu at the minute with all the injection loom unplugged (primitive I know lol) hopefully get the throttle bodies on it this year and get some properly 3D mapping

With your wideband mate did you got the little calibration switch and led as well?

the LC1 has a calibration wire. u ground the wire manually or via switch for 3sec to trigger calib mode. can also wire an LED to it to indicate status.
the xd16 gauge like mine can trigger the calib mode conveniently via its pushbutton so won't need the calib wire.

 

[pollyp]

Cheers Paul I was lucky it was a present but il be making sure it carnt go walkabout!

Torn between rotas, compo's or team dynamics but its all expense lol

Think il concentrate on getting the wideband and bits on first

yea important stuff 1st, lightweight parts are a luxury 2nd

 

[Skinner_87]

the LC1 has a calibration wire. u ground the wire manually or via switch for 3sec to trigger calib mode. can also wire an LED to it to indicate status.
the xd16 gauge like mine can trigger the calib mode conveniently via its pushbutton so won't need the calib wire.

Cheers Paul that makes sense that's when the sensor is on free air to calibrate it, I've only had a look over the instructions yet and the wiring but it doesn't look too bad , il have to sort a good place for the gague

 

[pork]

Spent most of the weekend with a sodding cold so i've been designing the air intake box with a few options & a rough card mock up.

Came accross this pic from last year to inspire me to get on with the jobs before april being, pic below i've used before but its been taken at the same time so gives the two sides :


2) Fit wideband kit

Looking great!

Let me know what goes on with the LC-1, il be buying one end of month

 

[solarice]

It's just running on the standard Ecu at the minute with all the injection loom unplugged (primitive I know lol) hopefully get the throttle bodies on it this year and get some properly 3D mapping

With your wideband mate did you got the little calibration switch and led as well?

Yeah, my gauge is just the normal blue one...so any recalibration that needs doing the switch is the easiest way (unless you wanna run the software via the serial plug), as it means i wouldn't need to have a laptop handy i just installed the lot...the led lets you know everything's warmed up properly / no errors, so figured i may as well have it fitted. The switch i've got hidden behind for easy recalibration (not that i've had to do it much).

You can use the lc-1 to simulate the narrow band as well, so you'd only need to run one lambda. Though i removed the lambda awhile back for easy mapping, so the car never sees that info anymore.

 

[pollyp]

Yeah, my gauge is just the normal blue one...so any recalibration that needs doing the switch is the easiest way (unless you wanna run the software via the serial plug), as it means i wouldn't need to have a laptop handy i just installed the lot...the led lets you know everything's warmed up properly / no errors, so figured i may as well have it fitted. The switch i've got hidden behind for easy recalibration (not that i've had to do it much).

You can use the lc-1 to simulate the narrow band as well, so you'd only need to run one lambda. Though i removed the lambda awhile back for easy mapping, so the car never sees that info anymore.

the wideband needs calibrating every so often so that it can accurately read the afr against the stored free-air reference value. sensor could get slightly clogged, weaker, etc over time.

was sick of having to remove the sensor for free-air calib so instead i found a quicker way of simply lifting-off during high speed overrun to shut the injectors n purge the pipes clear the exhaust gasses (wideband would normally say 20.9 free-air at this point), 3 taps of my xd16 gauge button to re-calib, done carry on

 

[Skinner_87]

Yeah, my gauge is just the normal blue one...so any recalibration that needs doing the switch is the easiest way (unless you wanna run the software via the serial plug), as it means i wouldn't need to have a laptop handy i just installed the lot...the led lets you know everything's warmed up properly / no errors, so figured i may as well have it fitted. The switch i've got hidden behind for easy recalibration (not that i've had to do it much).

You can use the lc-1 to simulate the narrow band as well, so you'd only need to run one lambda. Though i removed the lambda awhile back for easy mapping, so the car never sees that info anymore.

Thanks Solarice im in two minds at to weather to wire the feed into the ECU as just running carbs im not sure if it would make any different (il have to unplug the factory lambda & see if it makes a difference) I recon il mount the LED & reset switch up properly onto the dash then

 

[Skinner_87]

Well hopefully sorted some slightly larger wheels to help give a bit more top end speed (4-5mph per gear ish), also allows a better option of sprint/track tyres

They come with a nice sticky set of AO48R's as well, a nice little bargin!

Will be getting a coat of black at some point in the future as well.......

 

[skymera]

ooo!

I do like those tyres

Wheels are nice, simple, clean.

 

[karlj]

Are they mx5 enkei's by any chance? I was looking at getting a set but they command a pretty penny

 

[solarice]

Thanks Solarice im in two minds at to weather to wire the feed into the ECU as just running carbs im not sure if it would make any different (il have to unplug the factory lambda & see if it makes a difference) I recon il mount the LED & reset switch up properly onto the dash then

Yeah you may as well try the three different lambda sensor options and see which makes any difference...can't do any harm.

It could be the ecu is ignoring it anyway seeing as its lost the ability to control the injectors.

 

[Skinner_87]

Are they mx5 enkei's by any chance? I was looking at getting a set but they command a pretty penny

Im 99% sure they are mate i saw a set on ebay that look identical, managed to get the wheels & brand new tyres for £500, was chuffed with that as the yoko's can be as much as £120 each per tyre

 

[pollyp]

Thanks Solarice im in two minds at to weather to wire the feed into the ECU as just running carbs im not sure if it would make any different (il have to unplug the factory lambda & see if it makes a difference) I recon il mount the LED & reset switch up properly onto the dash then

well the o2 feedback are mainly for fuel trim during low-load and since it no longer controls fuel end, the sensor's next to useless, essentially running open-loop (like mine) which is fine as long as the afr are sensible n consistant.
so the ecu now just simply gathers MAF, temp, rev, speed and controls spark timing whereas ur carbs are independantly controlling its own fuel map.

 

[Skinner_87]

well the o2 feedback are mainly for fuel trim during low-load and since it no longer controls fuel end, the sensor's next to useless, essentially running open-loop (like mine) which is fine as long as the afr are sensible n consistant.
so the ecu now just simply gathers MAF, temp, rev, speed and controls spark timing whereas ur carbs are independantly controlling its own fuel map.

Cheers Paul I may as well just wire the wideband up on its own for now then and use it to find suitable jets for the carbs

 

[pollyp]

could also connect & log the wideband with datascan and fine tune the jets to the correct afr at a specific rev vs load

 

[Skinner_87]

could also connect & log the wideband with datascan and fine tune the jets to the correct afr at a specific rev vs load

Data scan being the softwear with the innovate unit Paul? Is this taken from the port under the fuse panel? I'm real new to this so I'm a little out of my depth

 

[frank]

some of the software listed here is free paul (for use with a consult lead)
http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=68

 

[pollyp]

Data scan being the softwear with the innovate unit Paul? Is this taken from the port under the fuse panel? I'm real new to this so I'm a little out of my depth

the lc1 comes with a data cable that connects it to a laptop serial port (i use a serial to usb cable) and also comes with its own software which can config the analog o2 output, programme the xd16 gauge, read/log the wideband but not compatible with our ecu.

the Consult -> usb or serial port cable allows the laptop the means to connect to the ecu.

nissan datascan is a seperate program u buy that can monitor/log the sensor data from the ecu and also supports input from the lc-1.
any program (free or not) that can read & log the ecu sensors will do.

 

[Skinner_87]

some of the software listed here is free paul (for use with a consult lead)
http://www.buyobd.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=68

Thanks Frank, free me favorite price

P.S Your new axel arrangement looks a treat!

 

[frank]

Thanks Frank, free me favorite price

P.S Your new axel arrangement looks a treat!

cheers paul
if your carbs are variable venturi, you will probably get different readings on the fly, the old slide type carbs will give a set amount of fuel per throttle position/rpm, but the dashpot (vv) type will accelerate and load enrich somewhat.
you may have to alter dashpot springs and shave the needles rather than try to find the optimum mainjet

 

[Skinner_87]

cheers paul
if your carbs are variable venturi, you will probably get different readings on the fly, the old slide type carbs will give a set amount of fuel per throttle position/rpm, but the dashpot (vv) type will accelerate and load enrich somewhat.
you may have to alter dashpot springs and shave the needles rather than try to find the optimum mainjet

Ahh thanks Frank, i've had a look into it and im running the dashpot vv type carbs from a 1995 Fireblade.

It would be easier to tune it that way for me as i've a freind who raced sidecars in the TT so he would be able to help me out with that im sure.

I guess its a softer/harder spring to controll how quickly the diaphram pulls up the needle & altering the taper of the needle to change the mixture?

quite looking forward to some proper tuning

 

[Skinner_87]

the lc1 comes with a data cable that connects it to a laptop serial port (i use a serial to usb cable) and also comes with its own software which can config the analog o2 output, programme the xd16 gauge, read/log the wideband but not compatible with our ecu.

the Consult -> usb or serial port cable allows the laptop the means to connect to the ecu.

nissan datascan is a seperate program u buy that can monitor/log the sensor data from the ecu and also supports input from the lc-1.
any program (free or not) that can read & log the ecu sensors will do.

Thanks for that Paul, i see so i would be getting the ECU wired up to take the data from the LC-1 then if i connect data scan up to the cars data port i get the AFR vs RPM vs Load

Then if i know were about it goes learn etc i can adjust the needles etc

 

[frank]

Ahh thanks Frank, i've had a look into it and im running the dashpot vv type carbs from a 1995 Fireblade.

It would be easier to tune it that way for me as i've a freind who raced sidecars in the TT so he would be able to help me out with that im sure.

I guess its a softer/harder spring to controll how quickly the diaphram pulls up the needle & altering the taper of the needle to change the mixture?

quite looking forward to some proper tuning

aye, i think the spring and vacuum porting dampers the dashpot lift eh (like the oil damper in the old SU carbs) so depending what gear you,re in and how long the "pull" is, will effect the acceleration enrichment/dashpot damping eh.
i guess you will have to compromise somewhere (till you get the Q/T/B,s )

 

[pollyp]

Thanks for that Paul, i see so i would be getting the ECU wired up to take the data from the LC-1 then if i connect data scan up to the cars data port i get the AFR vs RPM vs Load

Then if i know were about it goes learn etc i can adjust the needles etc

no no, the signal thats fed to the ecu via the lc-1 analog output will prob be narrowband by default to simulate a normal lambda (technically the range can be altered in the innovate software but anyway I wouldn't bother wiring the lc1 into the ecu cos its irrelevent n alot of unnessecery wiring)

the layout I meant was:
one datacable connects the lc1 wideband to the laptop (2.5mm phono plug -> serial port (and prob -> usb adapter)) so the laptop can see the entire wideband readout range.
one consult datacable connects the ecu to the laptop so it can see all the input & output of the ecu.

now the software such as datascan, can display the input/output of the ecu, but cos it also supports input from the lc1 it can display that too.
and whatever the software see's, it can simultaneously record every telemetry for playback.

so instead of mentally trying to remember what the vague afr gauge reading was per throttle per rev etc...you have all the actual readings recorded in datascan to playback & analyse in detail forever which is what makes it a useful tuning tool

 

[Skinner_87]

no no, the signal thats fed to the ecu via the lc-1 analog output will prob be narrowband by default to simulate a normal lambda (technically the range can be altered in the innovate software but anyway I wouldn't bother wiring the lc1 into the ecu cos its irrelevent n alot of unnessecery wiring)

the layout I meant was:
one datacable connects the lc1 wideband to the laptop (2.5mm phono plug -> serial port (and prob -> usb adapter)) so the laptop can see the entire wideband readout range.
one consult datacable connects the ecu to the laptop so it can see all the input & output of the ecu.

now the software such as datascan, can display the input/output of the ecu, but cos it also supports input from the lc1 it can display that too.
and whatever the software see's, it can simultaneously record every telemetry for playback.

so instead of mentally trying to remember what the vague afr gauge reading was per throttle per rev etc...you have all the actual readings recorded in datascan to playback & analyse in detail forever which is what makes it a useful tuning tool

Got it Paul thank you

 

[L.Williams]

Well hopefully sorted some slightly larger wheels to help give a bit more top end speed (4-5mph per gear ish), also allows a better option of sprint/track tyres

They come with a nice sticky set of AO48R's as well, a nice little bargin!

Will be getting a coat of black at some point in the future as well.......

they are sex

 

[Skinner_87]

Braved the snow today for a test fit, should help with the dry grip and gearing

 

[Harlen]

Braved the snow today for a test fit, should help with the dry grip and gearing

One word;

Phwoar

 

[karlj]

They look sexy, I knew I should of bought some

 

[Skinner_87]

They look sexy, I knew I should of bought some

If a set came your way mate id go for them, the Yoko is a heavy tyre but the whole wheel/tyre combo doesnt feel much different to a 14" Team Dynamics... 1kg heavier at the most!

 

[karlj]

I'll probably just use my bbs's not exactly light but they'll do the job

 

[pollyp]

wonder how heavy the yokos are, you checked the wheels on a scale yet?

my old 13" nissan alloys with 185/70/13 used to weigh 14.2kg

then i got the ultralight 6kg rotas but was surprised to find the 195/50/15 T1Rs were 7.6kg = 13.8kg total
so wasn't not much weight reduction to counteract the 10.6kg gtir brakes (stock is 6.8kg)

 

[Skinner_87]

wonder how heavy the yokos are, you checked the wheels on a scale yet?

my old 13" nissan alloys with 185/70/13 used to weigh 14.2kg

then i got the ultralight 6kg rotas but was surprised to find the 195/50/15 T1Rs were 7.6kg = 13.8kg total
so wasn't not much weight reduction to counteract the 10.6kg gtir brakes (stock is 6.8kg)

According to Yoko they are about 8kg (not had them weighed as i lost the feeling in my fingers with the weather!) suppose the reinforced sidewalls add a bit to that but should help keep the rim from the ground like in the picture in post #304

Not too worried about the weight as everything is at the moment i just needed that slight gearing change (the other bonnet should drop me a few KG in that department )

 

[pollyp]

According to Yoko they are about 8kg (not had them weighed as i lost the feeling in my fingers with the weather!) suppose the reinforced sidewalls add a bit to that but should help keep the rim from the ground like in the picture in post #304

Not too worried about the weight as everything is at the moment i just needed that slight gearing change (the other bonnet should drop me a few KG in that department )

yea the T1R I have are renowned for having very soft walls unless pumped hard. I hope the RS-R 595 I'm gonna fit in summer is reinforced. don't mind the extra few kg of sidewall plates if it improves stiffness & response.

ooh I think I'll prefer to stay indoors with a nice hot cuppa and a hot water bottle under the frozen toes while working

 

[Skinner_87]

yea the T1R I have are renowned for having very soft walls unless pumped hard. I hope the RS-R 595 I'm gonna fit in summer is reinforced. don't mind the extra few kg of sidewall plates if it improves stiffness & response.

ooh I think I'll prefer to stay indoors with a nice hot cuppa and a hot water bottle under the frozen toes while working

I can imagine they would be going off there description Paul, ahh thats the benefit of having the car in with you eh

On the plus side though the Wideband is all soldered up ready to go in & the Nissan Consult is on its way! Looking forward to a bit of data logging

 

[Skinner_87]

Well the Nissan consult cables arrived along with a nice big panel filter so the air box can come together at last!

O and incase anyone wundered a micra with no sound deadening on carbs at full chat is 105db inside the cabin! Think il get some ear plugs

 

[Rob]

I remember when i completely stripped out my old MK2 nova when we fitted the cage (had a corsa gsi 1.6 16v engine with throttle bodies) I took everything out, dash/flooring/panels so it was bare metal... worse thing i ever did, I used it for work for 6 months and im sure it damaged my hearing.

My right foot probably didnt help tho! haha

 

[Low Rider]

Well the Nissan consult cables arrived along with a nice big panel filter so the air box can come together at last!

O and incase anyone wundered a micra with no sound deadening on carbs at full chat is 105db inside the cabin! Think il get some ear plugs

Never measured our car on the last build but I know what you mean and that's exactly why I have a Stilo intercom in the car

 

[pollyp]

Well the Nissan consult cables arrived along with a nice big panel filter so the air box can come together at last!

O and incase anyone wundered a micra with no sound deadening on carbs at full chat is 105db inside the cabin! Think il get some ear plugs

christ.
my workm8 once measured my cabin with his iphone on way to work on motorway and I think it was bout 90ish db.
each time I drive long 4+ hrs on motorways above 60+, such as during my roadtrips, my ears would be ringing at home

 

[Low Rider]

It'll be interesting to see how loud the next engine setup is, I can't imagine WOT @8500rpm being quiet

 

[Skinner_87]

I remember when i completely stripped out my old MK2 nova when we fitted the cage (had a corsa gsi 1.6 16v engine with throttle bodies) I took everything out, dash/flooring/panels so it was bare metal... worse thing i ever did, I used it for work for 6 months and im sure it damaged my hearing.

My right foot probably didnt help tho! haha

Thank god this isnt my daily alot of fun but as you say stick you foot on the throttle and your ears are ringing afterwards!

 

[Skinner_87]

It'll be interesting to see how loud the next engine setup is, I can't imagine WOT @8500rpm being quiet

Il be able to hear it over here on the Isle of Man eh Dave

 

[L.Williams]

After an awesome visit to the Autosport show i arrived back to find the Suzuki oil (soon to be powersteering) pipes after a lil chopping and changing:

Pickedup up a new to hook at the show as well (nearly matches the car):

& was sent a new photo from the Hillclimb last year... only 15 weeks to go and a list as long as my arm of things to do (Y)

how did you mesh your grill so far out? like, in front of the grill surrounds? looks way better, i could only mesh mine by bolting the mesh onto the back of the grill from inside of bonnet, so its set quite far back, any tips?

 

[Skinner_87]

how did you mesh your grill so far out? like, in front of the grill surrounds? looks way better, i could only mesh mine by bolting the mesh onto the back of the grill from inside of bonnet, so its set quite far back, any tips?

I don't have any of the original grill left mate, I took the original nissan grill and used it to bend the mesh around so I had the exact shape, sprayed it black and it was job done, this way as u say it sits right at the front

 

[L.Williams]

I don't have any of the original grill left mate, I took the original nissan grill and used it to bend the mesh around so I had the exact shape, sprayed it black and it was job done, this way as u say it sits right at the front

good idea tbh, but how did you fix it on ?

 

[Skinner_87]

good idea tbh, but how did you fix it on ?

Just made sure that there was enough mesh left to bend over the lugs the original grill mounted too, put the thread through the grill, nut back on it its not going anywere

Though when the new bonnet goes on it'll be cabletied in tight

 

[L.Williams]

Just made sure that there was enough mesh left to bend over the lugs the original grill mounted too, put the thread through the grill, nut back on it its not going anywere

Though when the new bonnet goes on it'll be cabletied in tight

ohhh i seee, nicee!

 

[Skinner_87]

Panel filter arrived, think its big enough will be mounted behind the front grill

Design for the air box is coming on ok, hopeful to get this first part (of 3) cut ready for welding over to coming weeks, any thoughts on size/design welcome

 

[Skinner_87]

Started to fit the wideband and cylinder one was being temperamental, turns out the carb slider was sticking so has had a proper clean up

 

[djtweaker]

could you tellme more about this cabs are that suzuki??