what did you do to your micra today ?
- Thread starter frank
- Start date
Thought you were gonna be a vag fag Doug
You need to do the cg13 conversion dude, it's fookin brill
I'm skint as a skint thing that's got no money Doug so I'll not be there
If I'm honest JAE is looking seriously doubtful too mate
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Dougyledds
Woopa Pandastyle!
Nooo i wont be yet anyway lolThought you were gonna be a vag fag Doug
You need to do the cg13 conversion dude, it's fookin brill
I'm skint as a skint thing that's got no money Doug so I'll not be there
If I'm honest JAE is looking seriously doubtful too mate
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Well thats a reet bunch of crap!!
Just curious. A 20mm Titanium bar will yield you 20% tops in additional stiffness, which is equal to a 16.75mm steel bar, (assuming you got hold of some common Grade 5 alloy). Not much there but I know you don't rate anti-roll bars highly, so probably not a biggie. The weight saving isn't massive either and will be around 250g per meter length.
An interesting venture though if there's Ti bar going cheap
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frank
Club Member
ahh, twas £30 dave, and i dont run a front a/r/b, but this white car handles better than the red one did (no a/r/b,s and a very loose backend !).Just curious. A 20mm Titanium bar will yield you 20% tops in additional stiffness, which is equal to a 16.75mm steel bar, (assuming you got hold of some common Grade 5 alloy). Not much there but I know you don't rate anti-roll bars highly, so probably not a biggie. The weight saving isn't massive either and will be around 250g per meter length.
An interesting venture though if there's Ti bar going cheap
the only difference is that this car has a rear one fitted, i,ll see how it handles tomorrow now its removed.
praps i should have got a 22mm one eh
Some numbers for U Frank I measured to the hub but centre to save the wheel difference
Right wheel was as up in the arch as it will go
Resting: 3 1/2 arch gap
Resting hub to arch: 14
Dropped hub to arch: 13
Right wheel was as up in the arch as it will go
Resting: 3 1/2 arch gap
Resting hub to arch: 14
Dropped hub to arch: 13
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frank
Club Member
so F1 and btcc etc have got it wrong in using Ti for its strength to weight properties
and this type is purely torsional eh andy http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Impreza-WRC-GpA-Titanium-Anti-Roll-Bar-Rear-25mm-for-Rally-Car-/271215688207?nma=true&si=0o7aAYdNWqQZCh7Uv1mHrzsUhrA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
but our U shaped ones are leverage too i guess
if the car handles ok i,ll bring the 2 a/r/b,s to prescott on sunday, to show the difference in stiffness and weight
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
F1 teams can throw a couple of mill at it to make it have a specific alloy composition and grain structure mind, and we'll probably only ever be abke to get hold of a bar of probably bright drawn standard alloy with a more conservative alloy composition without paying big bucks as well. It may be carbon fibre is too brittle to take all that flexing as well.so F1 and btcc etc have got it wrong in using Ti for its strength to weight properties
and this type is purely torsional eh andy http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Impreza-WRC-GpA-Titanium-Anti-Roll-Bar-Rear-25mm-for-Rally-Car-/271215688207?nma=true&si=0o7aAYdNWqQZCh7Uv1mHrzsUhrA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
but our U shaped ones are leverage too i guess
if the car handles ok i,ll bring the 2 a/r/b,s to prescott on sunday, to show the difference in stiffness and weight
I was going to suggest an anti roll bar in a more torsion beam setup, have a thicker transverse hollow tube of material to take all the torsional load and an 'I' profile beam or hollow tube to take from the transverse beam to the rear axle points. Limits lows but it's only Scott that would be an issue for wouldn't it? Just an idea, I don't see criticism I see tasty tasty knowlege so fire away
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frank
Club Member
scoob,s have a choice of hollow steel, TI, and aluminium eh http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/26.html
its something you have to physically test really, for instance, a bar or tube that is bigger in diameter is gonna be stiffer whatever its made of eh
its something you have to physically test really, for instance, a bar or tube that is bigger in diameter is gonna be stiffer whatever its made of eh
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
it can all be calculated mind:
Torsion = (second moment of area/length of shaft)X angle of twist X youngs modulus.
Second moment of area is horrifically long winded to work out from memory, you need tables to work it out neatly so I won't bore everyone to death with it. Could be done in excel quickly enough though (p.s. I'm NOT volunteering!)
Torsion = (second moment of area/length of shaft)X angle of twist X youngs modulus.
Second moment of area is horrifically long winded to work out from memory, you need tables to work it out neatly so I won't bore everyone to death with it. Could be done in excel quickly enough though
(p.s. I'm NOT volunteering!)
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Well if you insist....
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frank
Club Member
yes dave came up with some calculations earlier, i dont buy them yet tho
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Oh yeah, what I did today lol. I made and fitted a bracket to join the cg airbox bolting point to the ga airbox. Some tit put the earth plug in the negative terminal though, so when I came to use it I deposited a lovely blob of tungsten onto it. I love it when people who use the stick welder think they're being helpful connecting the tig back up when they don't understand it...
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Frank likes tail happiness
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frank
Club Member
nah, the red one was scary ! spun at donnington, spun at curborough, spun 3 times on 1 lap on our kart track.Frank likes tail happiness
the white one has a very safe (neutral handling) 4 wheel drift with the 1 rear a/r/b
Not me, straight and true and drive right through.Frank likes tail happiness
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Mine has stiffer springs all round bit much stiffer at front than rear (stock arb's). I find that power on into a corner it understeers, but back off the throttle, let the weight shift and then ease on the throttle and you can get her to corner like she's on rails. Feels a bit loose at the rear though so considering an uprated rear arb, but not til after I put the iron lump up front and re-assessed the handling.
ETA: busy at the rear end, not loose
ETA: busy at the rear end, not loose
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
All the weight is at the front so you're most of the way there in terms of lowering c of g
Torsion in the ARB is not only linked to Young's modulus but also shear modulus. Of which Ti gives plenty away to steel in both respects.
Irrespective of whether people believe the figures or not, Ti can be made to give better performance in a number of respects but only of the design is right to begin with. Straight figures relating to the material properties don't lie however
All that aside, a 20mm Ti bar will give 20% increased stiffness for about 15% less weight when compared to a stock 16mm item. Which for £30 isn't a bad deal at all when you compare it to a pricey aftermarket option. IIRC a 24mm Ti bar would ever so slightly out perform the white line 20mm heavy duty item with a more significant weight saving. I'd certainly have a stab at it if I could get Ti bar that cheap!
In order to give accurate numbers I'd need the full dimensions of the ARB.
Irrespective of whether people believe the figures or not, Ti can be made to give better performance in a number of respects but only of the design is right to begin with. Straight figures relating to the material properties don't lie however
All that aside, a 20mm Ti bar will give 20% increased stiffness for about 15% less weight when compared to a stock 16mm item. Which for £30 isn't a bad deal at all when you compare it to a pricey aftermarket option. IIRC a 24mm Ti bar would ever so slightly out perform the white line 20mm heavy duty item with a more significant weight saving. I'd certainly have a stab at it if I could get Ti bar that cheap!
In order to give accurate numbers I'd need the full dimensions of the ARB.
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frank
Club Member
i can ask them if you want dave http://www.titek.co.uk/ where the spitfire,s were built, he said "we dont have a trade counter, but we do generate some offcuts"
and charged me by weight
Removed the 16v badges from the front wings as i was sick of them just collecting up dirt and crud , amazing how little changes like that can change the look of a panel though. Bumpstrips next ... maybe
I'd like to remove my bumpstrips, but they're there for a reason, and I know as soon as I did, I'd get some nasty whack in the door from a tatty old POS ZafiraRemoved the 16v badges from the front wings as i was sick of them just collecting up dirt and crud , amazing how little changes like that can change the look of a panel though. Bumpstrips next ... maybe
I have a lovely ding just next to my fuel filler flap, from the rear passenger door of an
a bumpstrip wouldn't have stopped it
I have a lovely ding just next to my fuel filler flap, from the rear passenger door of anArsholeBMW <_<
a bumpstrip wouldn't have stopped it
I put a nice dent in a land rovers door after the owner thought it would be funny to park as close to me as possible
To be fair they probably wont come off as my car has some odd paintwork so i fear that underneath might be a completely different colour, but in favour of taking them off all the door dings on my car already are much higher up due to the shaped nature of what seem to be most car doors these days and then just the fact that its been smacked so many times already by other peoples car doors i might just aswell get rid of them
but we shall see I put a nice dent in a land rovers door after the owner thought it would be funny to park as close to me as possible
almost did to one person but restrained myself , my question is how the hell did the driver get out without climbing out the other side, they were parked that close :/
I put a nice dent in a land rovers door after the owner thought it would be funny to park as close to me as possible
The annoying part was I went shopping with the family, so that's me, celina and a toddler.
All the parent/child spaces were taken, which bugged the crap out of me, then we shopped which made things worse.
So when we got back to the car and i could barely get in that's when I flipped and slammed my door into theirs a couple of times
In my defence (and it's a poor one) it was a friday and I'd only had a couple of hours sleep after being at work all night.
I hope that was the astra..The annoying part was I went shopping with the family, so that's me, celina and a toddler.
All the parent/child spaces were taken, which bugged the crap out of me, then we shopped which made things worse.
So when we got back to the car and i could barely get in that's when I flipped and slammed my door into theirs a couple of times
In my defence (and it's a poor one) it was a friday and I'd only had a couple of hours sleep after being at work all night.
I would never do that, purely because I'd hate it if someone did it to me.
Actually scrap that if I was in your situation I probably would...
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Nah. Swap the springs round if you can. Have the back slightly stiffer.
Our FWD cars need to be to tuck in the outside wheel to corner. Stiffer springs limits this. If your were to go softer on the springs you'll find it'll corner better
not too soft of course we dont want you rolling over.Unless you have adjustable arb's then you'll be stuck to fine tune it. A tad stiffer will be better though
It'll be busy at the back as it's taking up the weight transfer your front wheels cant hebce understeer
h701micra
Deactivated Account
Taken up by people without kids coz they love their cars and dont want anyone too close. Or they just want the extra space. Usually posher pretty cars... then you see one woman (no sexism intended here) walk out all glammed up grt in her audi that she clearly didnt pay for a bog off like nothings wrong. I tend to shout at them "so where's your kids then" one day I'll get a slap but so far people have just got embarrassed and leave
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Got cut rears and coilover fronts so can't swap. Also got another 45kg of high sitting weight to stick on the front in the not too distant future which will balance it out a bitNah. Swap the springs round if you can. Have the back slightly stiffer.
Our FWD cars need to be to tuck in the outside wheel to corner. Stiffer springs limits this. If your were to go softer on the springs you'll find it'll corner better
Unless you have adjustable arb's then you'll be stuck to fine tune it. A tad stiffer will be better though
It'll be busy at the back as it's taking up the weight transfer your front wheels cant hebce understeer
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Well we'll see what happens, got to find out if the micra ecu will read the ga dizzy for a start, as it was mentioned the micra reads 4 slots not multiple hokes like ga/sr dizzy... (am fitting the ga loom later as its got NATS so will need fiddling)it,ll be interesting to see how that GA effects your handling andy
i hope mine does,nt understeer with a stiffer rear a/r/b
ETA: Ga loom and ecu later
i can ask them if you want dave http://www.titek.co.uk/ where the spitfire,s were built, he said "we dont have a trade counter, but we do generate some offcuts"
Thanks Frank. I'll give them a ring a bit later to see what their plate prices are like
And in the spirit of the thread. WDID.................Nothing
Yeah the missus got into an argument with an old lady before doing just that
skymera
Brutal Honesty
A lot of work for an air box
Nice to see something a little different!Almera airbox not suitable for your needs?
A lot of work for an air box
Almera airbox not suitable for your needs?
Thanks
I have no particular need, just want to do it, and try to design something efficient, and try to develop some skills.
Get out
