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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
finally ordered the lsd & nissan headgasket at £847.60 delivered:wow: think i maxed out my ccard now, needa wait next month to buy stuff. thought bout gettin new diff bearing & speedo gear and simply push onto the lsd but will just get me local shop to swap em instead.

due to work i'll have to wait till april to start conversion
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
shero's just sent out the organic helix clutch plate. still waiting for this 1/8 female hosetail adapter to connect the hose to the boost gauge.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
only spoke to matt yesterday bout the lsd n gasket and this arrived tday, ur an absolute beaut matt :)

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Mmmmm behold! the Gripper LSD

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trying to find an odd sized nut to secure the boost gauge bracket, only found one in me box of bits at the mo.
 
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Low Rider

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I recommend one bottle of Redline Friction Modifier in the box along with the LSD oil you happen to choose to stop LSD chatter. These LSD's are not for the faint hearted, it's a serious drive and you'll have to make a lot of changes to your driving styles, particularly pulling out off t-junctions and holding gears until your wheels are straight before shifting under power. It's not an easy drive on the road........all I can say is 'hold on to that wheel!'
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Nice, you'll need the limited slip diff hehe :laugh:

BTW, what model is the LSD? What make is it?

Alex

dunno what model but is made by Gripper. googling for micra lsd only seen gripper phantom at the mo. will look further
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I recommend one bottle of Redline Friction Modifier in the box along with the LSD oil you happen to choose to stop LSD chatter. These LSD's are not for the faint hearted, it's a serious drive and you'll have to make a lot of changes to your driving styles, particularly pulling out off t-junctions and holding gears until your wheels are straight before shifting under power. It's not an easy drive on the road........all I can say is 'hold on to that wheel!'

got this tday

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as seen in matts catalog and what i saw recommended on forums bout the gripper LSD to stop chatter.

is the chatter like a shuttering clutch that shakes the whole car?

do you mean due to the preloaded nature of the diff, it's more likely to head straight during low speeds/junction exits? maybe the PAS helps. did urs have PAS with ur gripper?

any dramatic increase in front tyre wear during normal driving?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok took out the stock diff to compare and there's a major issue with the LSD in that there's no space to fit the plastic speedo in any way cos it's techically taken up by bulk of the lsd clutch plates

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notice here the bearings will fit fine but there's no chance the speedo's gonna fit in the same place and the diameter of the lsd body is bigger than the speedo which means it will clash with the speedo pinion if fitted :(

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plus on the stock diffs casting is a notch for the speedo gear to lock into which the lsd doesn't have

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help :/

lowrider did ya have this sorta prob with urs?

so i could install the lsd but won't have a working speedo which is inconvenient

gonna call matt tomorrow for ideas
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
no, mechanical. though even if i fit the electronic speedo sensor the pinion may still foul the LSD body.
needa check if matts sent me the right one or if this is the compromise of using it
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
how would i hook that to the mechanical speedo dial? sounds like too much effort and ALOT more money to waste (replace dash, speedo sensing kit, weld sensor onto CV etc) to get a speedometer to work with the LSD.

i'll see what matt says 1st, if there's no way of correcting the speedo issue i'll prob have to abort the lsd
 

frank

Club Member
the gearbox karters use a simple beltdrive from the back axle to spin the fuelpump paul, i had something like that in mind to spin the cable :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
not sure i can make summing like that work reliably n accurately. prefer to try make the original speedo system work somehow.

maybe the lsd body could be lathed down abit and bore out the speedo gear to tolerance fit onto it? although i can't imagine there'll be enough metal in the lsd body to machine without weakening it.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just measured the lsd n speedo. the lsd body is 90mm dia with 4.8mm wall thickness while the most that the speedo ring can be bored out is 81mm so that won't work:down:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
tried to called matt but wasn't in till monday.

shero's organic clutch arrived

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but the 2nd major issue of the day is that it's a 195mm plate which is wayyyy too big for the jun flywheel so will not work :(

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stock plate over helix plate

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anyone know what diameter the helix paddle plate is?
 
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solarice

Ex. Club Member
Yup Noddie youre correct (and ive got one fitted lol)...but i can get away with it cos i included "iirc" :D

Guess helix are busy redoing the site as you cant officially get on.
 

martinb

Ex. Club Member
Without reading your your blog again matey, what did kristian use with this setup originally?

Surely Matt wouldn't have mid sold you something?

I wouldn't go making any mods to it until you spoke to him invade you have to send it back ?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
that sounds more realistic. ok first thing monday talk to matt bout the lsd and helix pad clutch

martin, dunno what clutch setup kristian ran. the clutch that came with the turbo kit looks stock.

i also wondered how matt fitted this lsd (if its the right one) on a rally car with a working dash speedo unless he used other external means. upgrading the clutch n lsd startin to sound like more work n money than i thought. all else fails i'll just keep the present powertrain setup
 

Low Rider

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got this tday

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as seen in matts catalog and what i saw recommended on forums bout the gripper LSD to stop chatter.

is the chatter like a shuttering clutch that shakes the whole car?

do you mean due to the preloaded nature of the diff, it's more likely to head straight during low speeds/junction exits? maybe the PAS helps. did urs have PAS with ur gripper?

any dramatic increase in front tyre wear during normal driving?

I used Lodexol initially and found it rather thick, (double the viscocity of 75w90 when cold), we lost some power through the trans on the dyno and it also does not stop chatter without additional friction modifier. I now run Fuchs Titan Race SYN 5 which is 75w90 still with 1 bottle of fricton modifier. Your diff looks different to mine, plus mine has an integrated speedo drive....so I would speak to Matt about that.

Chatter is basically cause by friction plate stiction when the plates grip-slip-grip-slip, it can sound pretty bad like a bag of spanners and the trans sounds like it's about to fall apart but it's just something they suffer from. Friction modifier just gives the plates a little more ease to slip, which reduces the effectiveness of the diff slightly but makes driving a lot earier.

Yeah, pulling out of a t-junction and applying power will make the diff lock and you'll find the wheel will want to straighten up and whip out of your hands. It maybe better with PAS but I've never had it and don't want it on a circuit car.......so it maybe just my setup.

I've not noticed any increased tyre wear but the car has only done say 1500miles on this setup and one track session, so it's a bit early to tell. One thing which is quite funny, is the car will drive itself in a straight line under power perfectly. I'm not saying try it on the road but it's funny to take your hands off the wheel and drive and the car stays totally stable ;)

I'll be interested to see how you get on with it, as I have no idea on the pre-loads mine was set to, but all I can tell from driving it is it's pretty high. Steering with no PAS in a carpark is a total pain but I'm used to it now....
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I used Lodexol initially and found it rather thick, (double the viscocity of 75w90 when cold), we lost some power through the trans on the dyno and it also does not stop chatter without additional friction modifier. I now run Fuchs Titan Race SYN 5 which is 75w90 still with 1 bottle of fricton modifier. Your diff looks different to mine, plus mine has an integrated speedo drive....so I would speak to Matt about that.

Chatter is basically cause by friction plate stiction when the plates grip-slip-grip-slip, it can sound pretty bad like a bag of spanners and the trans sounds like it's about to fall apart but it's just something they suffer from. Friction modifier just gives the plates a little more ease to slip, which reduces the effectiveness of the diff slightly but makes driving a lot earier.

Yeah, pulling out of a t-junction and applying power will make the diff lock and you'll find the wheel will want to straighten up and whip out of your hands. It maybe better with PAS but I've never had it and don't want it on a circuit car.......so it maybe just my setup.

I've not noticed any increased tyre wear but the car has only done say 1500miles on this setup and one track session, so it's a bit early to tell. One thing which is quite funny, is the car will drive itself in a straight line under power perfectly. I'm not saying try it on the road but it's funny to take your hands off the wheel and drive and the car stays totally stable ;)

I'll be interested to see how you get on with it, as I have no idea on the pre-loads mine was set to, but all I can tell from driving it is it's pretty high. Steering with no PAS in a carpark is a total pain but I'm used to it now....

if matt did send me the wrong lsd which was supposed to be like ur then its potentially good news. do you have a pic of urs for comparison/reference?

my inner wheel always slips whenever i try to exit a t-junc quickly. steering with pas is very light during that exiting so it maybe acceptable with lsd.

mine always drifts left slowly on any roads so will be interesting to see if the lsd keeps things straight which is a bonus

i can't imagine what non-pas steering used to feel like, especially when parking. as ya say i've also adapted to the light pas & heavy clutch.

cheers for ur invaluable knowledge
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
other than the 2 bad news, time to cut holes for the induction pipes & bumper grill

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this moulded round nut that holds the bottom headlight to the wing was bound to just round off when seized, what a daft piece. to get it off i heated the bolt with minitorch till it melts off the plastic casing.

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cut off panel for the pipes

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how the intercooler would sit. tis resting close against the PAS cooling bracket and also rocking over the slightly bent up crossbeam, seems its been jacked up from the middle before.
wonder if i should make a new straight copper PAS cooling pipe and reroute it higher up so it doesn't obstruct the intercooler

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intercooler pipe goes through the hole and then up towards the inlet

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cut off the grill

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the round nut that i melted off is replaced with a long nut bolt

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OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
hmm found this 2008 gripper lsd topic on ciscos site where mickeyb was talking bout a group buy and mentioned that the older gripper lsd (before the threads date) didn't support the spedo gear whereas the newer ones did apparantly

http://micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=35562

so i wonder does this mean that matt's sent me an older version gripper lsd whereas low rider has a newer version with the built-in speedo gear?

where did you get urs from low rider?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
also i've been reading in forums that most aftermarket competition lsd dont support the speedo drive (since its mostly taken up by the lsd clutch) and competition cars using em would have other means to measure speed, which mine isn't. also some ppl who sacrificed the speedo gear for the gripper lsd got round it by hooking their abs sensor to the digital dials.

now, i have abs so maybe the rear sensor could be connected to work with either an aftermarket speedo or a digital facelift dash? dunno if the impulses from the gearbox electronic speedo are the same as the abs sensors?
 

Low Rider

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if matt did send me the wrong lsd which was supposed to be like ur then its potentially good news. do you have a pic of urs for comparison/reference?

my inner wheel always slips whenever i try to exit a t-junc quickly. steering with pas is very light during that exiting so it maybe acceptable with lsd.

mine always drifts left slowly on any roads so will be interesting to see if the lsd keeps things straight which is a bonus

i can't imagine what non-pas steering used to feel like, especially when parking. as ya say i've also adapted to the light pas & heavy clutch.

cheers for ur invaluable knowledge

I don't have any pics of my LSD unfortunately. I don't keep a blog on here and I never thought to take any for refecence, (don't know many people with gripper LSDs). I know that the diffs I had were specially ordered through matt for people who wanted an OEM speed pickup, so perhaps he didn't assume you wanted one, it was never mentioed blah blah. I'm sure he'll discuss on the phone, Matt's a very amicable guy.....

Your inner wheel will always try to spin out of junctions now because it will be trying to keep up with the outside wheel ;)

Yeah, the LSD keep the car very stable, especially on corners, (providing you maintain throttle and do not go on and off mid corner, as the diff ramp angles of 40/65 make for a pretty strong lock, so the car will snap on you)........you'll notice a definite difference though. Steering loads will probably be less pronounced if you have PAS, which may actually be a good thing. I'll be sticking with non-PAS though, and we're currently building up an engine with a 31v box with VLSD, so it will be interesting to compare. If the VLSD turns out to be a non-starter then I'll commission Gripper to make one for the 31v gearbox to suit.

Non-PAS steering is very heavy at low speed, you feel the LSD working a lot in and out or corners, which is something I like on a track car.....keeps you in tune with what's going on......personal preference really I guess.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I don't have any pics of my LSD unfortunately. I don't keep a blog on here and I never thought to take any for refecence, (don't know many people with gripper LSDs). I know that the diffs I had were specially ordered through matt for people who wanted an OEM speed pickup, so perhaps he didn't assume you wanted one, it was never mentioed blah blah. I'm sure he'll discuss on the phone, Matt's a very amicable guy.....

Your inner wheel will always try to spin out of junctions now because it will be trying to keep up with the outside wheel ;)

Yeah, the LSD keep the car very stable, especially on corners, (providing you maintain throttle and do not go on and off mid corner, as the diff ramp angles of 40/65 make for a pretty strong lock, so the car will snap on you)........you'll notice a definite difference though. Steering loads will probably be less pronounced if you have PAS, which may actually be a good thing. I'll be sticking with non-PAS though, and we're currently building up an engine with a 31v box with VLSD, so it will be interesting to compare. If the VLSD turns out to be a non-starter then I'll commission Gripper to make one for the 31v gearbox to suit.

Non-PAS steering is very heavy at low speed, you feel the LSD working a lot in and out or corners, which is something I like on a track car.....keeps you in tune with what's going on......personal preference really I guess.

actually when i called him bout the diff he did ask if it was gonna be for some sorta 1300 competition stage (didn't know what he meant or couldn't focus on the call initially cos my workmates were taking the mickey and distracting my phone concentration cos i was ordering bits for the micra on the office phone again, soo annoying. should order stuff on my mobile outside the office next time) i said naa its for when i take it to trackdays and needed more stability. so maybe he assumed it was only a tracks and didn't need the speedo. i think he should really mention the options on his pdf catalog.

is it a 1-way, 1.5-way or 2-way? heard 2-way is fine for rwd drifters but abit hairy/understeer for inexperienced fwd when lifting mid-corner therefore suggested 1-way
 

frank

Club Member
you dont want 2 way on a front wheel drive paul :eek: i welded the diff on my ministock and it was very scary lol
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you dont want 2 way on a front wheel drive paul :eek: i welded the diff on my ministock and it was very scary lol

yea bet it was :)
guess if a 2-way fwd locks up and understeers during lift off you could dip the clutch to make the diff open but then no point in doing that in every corner and by the time the front tyres are overloaded with the locked diff its prob a little late to recover back onto the road and you need a 3rd pair of undies:laugh:
 
I copied your procedure to fix the passenger footwell leak, ie: water getting in around the green plastic windscreen clip and dripping down the fan intake. In a rush to fix the leak, I snapped off the green plastic clip and left half of it in the hole. I sealed the hole, but now I am wondering if this clip actually holds the windscreen in place. Will the windscreen eventually slip down without it?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I copied your procedure to fix the passenger footwell leak, ie: water getting in around the green plastic windscreen clip and dripping down the fan intake. In a rush to fix the leak, I snapped off the green plastic clip and left half of it in the hole. I sealed the hole, but now I am wondering if this clip actually holds the windscreen in place. Will the windscreen eventually slip down without it?

no the windscreen is bonded onto the chassis. the green clip is prob for locating the new windscreen when being replaced.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok, good news from matt.

story is that matt has previously asked gripper to make 3-4 gripper lsd's (that were meant for some pug's) that allowed the stock speedo gear to be installed. now due to the tight confines of the stock diff with speedo, this meant that the lsd clutch plates had to be located on one side of the diff only to allow space for the speedo.

for the first 2 micra's he sold em to which were running normal bhp they were fine. but the 3rd micra was running an insane 250bhp+ and the diff couldn't handle it.

because the majoriy of ppl buying the rally stuff are using em mainly for competition stages and they use other means to measure speed, he changed back to the much stronger gripper diff that has the plates on both sides (one he sent me).

he just spoke to gripper and phoned me back saying they'll make one for me that allows the speedo gear by end of the week :grinning: also talked to him bout the helix pad plate which will fit and will prob handle the torque. i asked bout if its the almera pressure plate that'll work and he said yea he also supplies it as the "uprated PP & bearing" on his pdf. the uprated PP & bearing kit comes with either an almera or sunny PP, plate & bearing.

now since i don't need the almera/sunny stock plate (only handle bout 130bhp) cos i'm buying the helix pad plate, that'll take bout £38 off the PP & bearing kit

so £145 for helix plate and £50 for PP & bearing all ex vat & postage

matt will phone me when the new diffs ready, sort out payment for the new clutch, he'll arrange courior to pickup the wrong diff then send me the new diff & clutch (Y)

matt saves the day
 
that is awesome mate glad its sorted so quickly! just have to sit around and twiddle your thumbs for now then:laugh:
 

Low Rider

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Yeah, I actually spoke to Gripper today about commissioning a plate LSD for my 31v gearbox. I wasn't aware of the plate arrangements but the only downside to that is the car locks marginally more on right hand turns than left hand turns, but this is only at very low speeds, (slow speed maneuvers), once underway there is no perceivable difference.

I may opt for a speedoless drive on the next one and rig up a digital unit for the new dash, but it's only a philosophy at present.

Glad you got it sorted, Matt's the man ;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Yeah, I actually spoke to Gripper today about commissioning a plate LSD for my 31v gearbox. I wasn't aware of the plate arrangements but the only downside to that is the car locks marginally more on right hand turns than left hand turns, but this is only at very low speeds, (slow speed maneuvers), once underway there is no perceivable difference.

I may opt for a speedoless drive on the next one and rig up a digital unit for the new dash, but it's only a philosophy at present.

Glad you got it sorted, Matt's the man ;)

i woulda thought it'd lock up the same way whatever way the shafts turn cos they're both linked via the pinion gears?
did ya bed the lsd in after fitting? cos i read on some forums recommending afew gentle figure 8 turns to bed the lsd plates n smooth em out just like bedding brakes in.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i woulda thought it'd lock up the same way whatever way the shafts turn cos they're both linked via the pinion gears?

no, actually thinking more bout how the diff pinions work, having the plates acting only on one side would make it favour one side more more than the other so, yea i get it now why it locks on right turns more.
 

Low Rider

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Yeah, we followed all procedures for bedding in, fig-8's, driving up to bends/roundabouts on power and coasting around to make the diff plates work lots. Dropped the oil after the first track day and are now on the second fill.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
box holds 3ltrs right? prob need to buy another litre of lsd oil over the 5ltr can to change the oil after bedding in
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
shero hasn't replied back to me yet bout if i could return the helix plate but if anyone wants the 198mm helix organic clutch plate pm me ;)
 
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