turbo or NA

GT88

Ex. Club Member
well i took the advice of you all and i am now going to get a cg13 and i want to now what you all think. (i think i now what the out come will be)

i cant decide what to do turbo or NA

if NA i will put new cams, pistons, crown wheel, light fly, free flow head
if turbo it will be the same but not pistons or crown wheel

and ED can you tell me what the bhp out come will be. around
 
I would fist consider insurance seeing as your 19. NA etc tuning is cheaper and youll get 120 ish from that spec, turbo perhaps around 150.
 
thats no the cg13 and a bit off you magic. i thought it would have been more.
so far 1-0 for the NA team..
 
Well you could go more if you get stronger headgasket, but you need to drop comp ratio to really safely get much more.
 
will that mean new low comp pistions?
i forgot to add the new eng is not going in till i am 21. i am going to put it to gether then put it in.
 
Yes low comp, you can keep stock conrods for under 200bhp, and nomal rev limit.
 
hehe, NA all the way...lol

thing about turbo is that once you start you cant realy stop untill your done and the car is running, wheras NA you can do a bit at a time.. like im doing.,

manifold, then cams, then ECU, then head, then Throttle bodies etc etc..

and you cannot beat the screaming roar of an na engine..
 
NA, cams, lightweight flywheel, 4branch manifold, and exhaust then mapped up. thats what i would do, personally id get suspension out of the way first the go full on na then once ive got all the na bits ill move onto turboing a spare engine.
 
hehe, NA all the way...lol

thing about turbo is that once you start you cant realy stop untill your done and the car is running, wheras NA you can do a bit at a time.. like im doing.,

manifold, then cams, then ECU, then head, then Throttle bodies etc etc..

and you cannot beat the screaming roar of an na engine..

thats right i love the sound of a NA eng but my thoght is that it im puting all that stuff on why not go all the way..

squarepants: i got all the suspension out of the way and the exhaust now im on to the eng and like i sed its a project that will take some time to do.
 
N/A really depends on how hardcore you want to go - it is not necessarily the cheapest/most cost-effective option (bar insurance issues) - the usual breathing mods will get you to ~100bhp, getting over that hasn't really been done on the road (bar the NME Micra) as to go higher you will need cams, these will need management to run to their best, if you go for cams, you might then as well put a larger throttlebody on - or even individual throttle bodies - this has (AFAIK) *never* been done on a UK road car (bar Boggs Bros. carb conversions), which will require custom hardware and, again, a remap; once you've had this for a while, you'll want more, next step is pistons and headgasket, although high-comp. pistons are not available for the 1.3 (1l pistons will fit, but - again - has not been done in the UK and you may run into piston/valve clearance issues) so you decide to go for the CGa conversion, you'll need to source an engine, then get the pistons and rods and then find a thinner headgasket, you may even want to get hte head ported at this stage.
Now you have a spanking N/A engine, that will only run on premium fuel (not really a problem) but if you want to keep taking it to 8k every day, the crank is the weakest link - a custom crank will set you back an eye-watering amount of cash.

It all depends how much power you want to achieve and, maybe more importantly, what your budget is - as Anthony said, you can buy each N/A bit separately and slowly increase the HP of your engine on your car to spread the cost, however this is probably better achieved by driving a standard car and making a transplant engine in your garag to put into your car when you're finished (if you haven't lost interest/money by this point).

Probably what is best is if you could get aride in a decent N/A and turbo'd cars to see which form of power delivery you like best so that you don't end up slightly disappointed with your completed project.

Sorry for the essay, has been in my head a long time, Craig
 
thanks mate!
you can get high com pistons for a 1.3 by the way. you get them form Matthew.
i am going out in a NA soon but i dont know anyone with a turbo.
also i want as much bhp as i can get. i am going for 150bhp.

anyone say turbo.... no.

i thought that i was going to have lots of different views..
 
turbo is just too damned costly..... yes you get lots of perfromance.... but the outlay for a car thats not gonna be as relyable as an na engine.... i started to get all the bits for my turbo conversion. and after a long and in depth talk with someone whos been doing turbo conversions for 30 years (my dad, worked for turbo technics at ford) desided against it...

if you after a turbo charged car..... get a starlet...... its designed to be a turbo car from the factory... with all the bits to cope with the extra power.....

the oil pump, oil cooler, radiator, exhaust, head gasket, inlet manifold, cams, valves, pistons, ecu, fuel pump, injectors, clutch, gearbox, drive shafts, chassis...etc etc.... all built for the job....

now considering that your car isnt built for this.... can you afford to make it ready for a turbo? or even close?.........

not saying it will cost this much. but once you start, it gets very expensive very quickly....... ask NIS.......lol
 
this decision really depend on the size of your wallet
if you go n/a its easer in steps but you cant cut corners with a turbo setup or you will encounter problems so its how deep do your pockets go really.
Think realisitically and get a project going that you can finnish.
 
thanks mate!
you can get high com pistons for a 1.3 by the way. you get them form Matthew.

i thought that i was going to have lots of different views..



Really? Last time I spoke to him he had sold out of those, with no sign of getting any more, so only does 1.4 ones as that's what the rally boys use.

DaveyC has two, practically complete, turbo conversions for sale if you have some £££'s.

People say, go turbo, go turbo, but when oyu actually cost it down, it is not cheap (although vvery fun when completed)
Craig
 
The standard 1.3 micra engine is REALLY suited to turboing..

You guys are missing out on SO MUCH..!!! lol

.. really.. its by far and away the best BHP per $ modification there is..

You could turbo reliably for less than 600 quid and get around 130 EASY..

( turbo 150, safc 100, fmic 200, feeds and other stuff, 150 )

but its the 130ish Lb-Ft of torque that would matter anything.. Turbo all that way..
 
I have to totally agree with Kristian about this. Turbo is the best way to gain power and more importantly torque. Going N/A will not allow for large gains on the micras small engine as the most i have heard N/A is 160 from that white nismo one (i maybe wrong, but i haven ever seen a printout).

To get power out of the N/A it will need to be revved high which cause wear on the components in the head.

I plan on doing a budget conversion once i get some cash on my hands to get the parts together. If you do a low psi conversion say 4 psi (not much i know but with small enough turbo will give crazy accelration) you may not even need a fuel controller as msot jap cars run rich and I think HKS do one like this without an intercooler.
 
Turbo is better, but in reality only if you did it yourself could you do it that cheap, and it would still be cutting corners.

If you do a low psi conversion say 4 psi (not much i know but with small enough turbo will give crazy accelration) you may not even need a fuel controller as msot jap cars run rich and I think HKS do one like this without an intercooler.
This is always a bad idea imo. But i do agree in the case of some cars it works.

possibly the number 1 cause of issues on turbo conversions on the K11 is bad managment. Its where people often skimp the most important bit.
 
The micra goes into closed loop when you push it(hard acceleration)? Would having a piggyback like e-manage still work properly when the ecu goes into closed loop? What about the s-afc will that work ? Just curios.
 
well i will be doing all the work myself (beside the ECU.... ed that’s for you)
i have a turbo and 1.6 injectors
so i need a
-intercooler and piping
-manifold and down pipe
-1.3 eng
-new cams
-oil feeds
-remapped
anything i forgot. this is just to run i want will add more at a later date.
 
The micra goes into closed loop when you push it(hard acceleration)? Would having a piggyback like e-manage still work properly when the ecu goes into closed loop? What about the s-afc will that work ? Just curios.

The micra is almost always in closed loop. S-afc is just about adequate for some things, but by the fact it cannot do ignition all but rules it out for a turbo conversion, except very low boost. And yes closed loop does cause a problem, infact the best thing to do when using e-manage or safc is to disconnect the stock lambda sensor to force it into open loop, otherwise youll end up chasing your own tail.

Ed

well i will be doing all the work myself (beside the ECU.... ed that’s for you)
i have a turbo and 1.6 injectors
so i need a
-intercooler and piping
-manifold and down pipe
-1.3 eng
-new cams
-oil feeds
-remapped
anything i forgot. this is just to run i want will add more at a later date.

that sounds good so far.
 
The micra is almost always in closed loop. S-afc is just about adequate for some things, but by the fact it cannot do ignition all but rules it out for a turbo conversion, except very low boost. And yes closed loop does cause a problem, infact the best thing to do when using e-manage or safc is to disconnect the stock lambda sensor to force it into open loop, otherwise youll end up chasing your own tail.

Thought that would be the case, when people have disconnected the stock lambda they say that the car drinks a lot of fuel but by using the safc or equivalent it would be possible to get the air/fuel correct to 14.7 or perhaps slightly leaner if need be?

I'm guessing it runs really rich in open loop to be safe.
 
If you want performance you dont map for 14.7, i have never seen a K11 go /that/ rich either.
 
With regards to that Ed ^^ what would you say to a turbo mapped to be stoich to the redline at WOT, running 1.2 bar boost?
 
Unless the engine has been designed for it (say Focus ST which is lambda=1 always) then chances are EGT will get too hot (thats and the onset of knock is the deciding factor) and things will melt. You will also be loosing lots of power.
 
Thanks, that was the consensus on the forum, but there is a lot of conjecture about which place is good to tune (this was not my car BTW) - in fact a car with a similar map did melt a piston, but the car in question was saved by the 'intelligence' of the ECU.

SUrely, then, there is power to be gotten from tuning the Focus ST to a richer mix? (Interestingly, it is the same engine as the one in question - albeit de-tuned to go in the Ford compared to in the Volvo)?
 
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