k10 cam

superls

superls

K10 Tuner
hi all, a quick one for the k10 lads/lasses. ive heard of the piper (i think???) regrinds that ed can get done.

has anyone got one of these in there k10? what do they run like, what increase is there?, the reason i ask is, my dad says that back in the day (lol) on his capri, it wouldn't tickover correctly and wouldn't idle beloy 1500 rpm, but they were full race cams. but the gains were very noticable, but again that was on a race tuned 3.3 litre v6.

so im a little unsure atm to be honest?

im going to be running eventually, cbr600 carbs, 4-2-1 exhaust and hopefully the cam, has anyone got similar mods to these? if so what gains can i expect on an MA12?

also how much are the cams?
 
the cam is 140 through ed, you need to send him your can and he will send it off to be reground. details in fusion motor sports section.
i personaly think that the can he offers is too excessive for what i want which is very similar to you. not talking from experience though.
 
ok my bad thought it may help and if we can find out what setting ed gets them regrind to we can work out if its fast road or race cam
 
should've just said! the settings are in the fusion motor sports of the forum and yeah i think its race. can't copy and paste as i'm on my phone.
 
I have tried one of these cams on a roadcar and it made no differenst whatso ever to the performance it only made the tickover abit lumpy,,,i think they need to up the deration spec to around 275 or more....
 
superls

yes, tbh my piper cams hav,nt made much difference
i could feel a difference when i put the 1.3 cams in, especially at 5 to 7000, but the piper cams gave a very linear powerband (more revs=more power,no surge)
i think bob is right, if the pipers had more duration, they would be s### hot, but basicly they have just got more lift
 
I thought that from the pics Frank, it looks like they would need other additions such as a remap to make full use of them, in an otherwise untouched engine they would be under achieving their potential.
 
Well i can get piper cams at trade price plus discount so i will be doing figures to make a cam that will work best form engine. I'll post the figures up for anyone to comment or advise before sending it off to be reground.
 
Although I'm going on Franks pictures of K11 cams, the lift looks fine, but more work needs doing to the duration as well as the timing itself, it's just a shame that there aren't members here that have no access to the equipment that is needed for such an experimental exercise (or is there), some serious experimentation is needed here, although, is it economically viable when there are other options available such as engine transplants and forced induction ?
 
sonic

yes they,re just too docile, i could pull the tickover down to about 600, no probs !
the profile is very simular to the 1.3,s,
i used to get my cams done by autosprint (brum, now sadly gone) they did a propper rounded titshaped lobe, not a pointed noseshaped one
those were propper regrinds, lumpy tickover, power came in with a bang, at about 3500
if you kept the engine on the boil thro the gears, you could knock 5 sec,s off your 0 to 60 with no other mods !
 
i have a cam in my k10 and i havent had the car running much to realy judge it, mainly because the timing etc is not setup right yet. But even with out it running right and with out my su carb (originally one of bobs, but im using a webber at the mo) i still think it does give a small gain,and hopefully it will be more noticeable with the other carb when its all setup properly.
Also with the idle its a little dodgey and needs choke to run at first but once its warm it sits ok at about 850-900 rpm

i have a cam in my k10 and i havent had the car running much to realy judge it, mainly because the timing etc is not setup right yet. But even with out it running right and with out my su carb (originally one of bobs, but im using a webber at the mo) i still think it does give a small gain,and hopefully it will be more noticeable with the other carb when its all setup properly.
Also with the idle its a little dodgey and needs choke to run at first but once its warm it sits ok at about 850-900 rpm
 
bombz4 said:
i have a cam in my k10 and i havent had the car running much to realy judge it, mainly because the timing etc is not setup right yet. But even with out it running right and with out my su carb (originally one of bobs, but im using a webber at the mo) i still think it does give a small gain,and hopefully it will be more noticeable with the other carb when its all setup properly.
Also with the idle its a little dodgey and needs choke to run at first but once its warm it sits ok at about 850-900 rpm
Click to expand...

The probem is that the Weber although being a good carb it's too complex, an SU 1.75 is plenty for a K10 n/a, if you really want to push the boat out then try a twin carb 1 1/4 SU set up on a custom manifold, we are talking serious power there, I was running that set up on an 'A' series 1.3 BL engine in a Mini, it would acheive 120mph on 12" rims according to the Police speed trap, although it was scary on drum brakes all round. Just because an induction method is newer doesnt mean it's more productive.
 
measure them

I've been measuring cams for Renault engines for a while now, and have done around 30. At this point I can say that the quoted timing figures are pretty meaningless, I've found cams with the wrong profile, cams that you'd think have low overlap actually have the opposite. I've found a cam sold with a very wild profile that was totally standard, I've had the wrong LSA ground etc.

To give an example of two cams, one listed as the mildest cam from one manufacturer, and the other as the wildest cam from a second manufacturer.

lift 8.5mm timing 14/58/58/14
lift 9.14mm timing 26/70/70/26

these two cams were nearly identical..

Anyway, what I've found with all my measuring has explained an awful lot about the reasons why some cams work and some don't.

It's pretty simple to do, for the pushrod Renault engine I have a spare block set up as well as a follower and pushrod. I put the cam in the block, bolt my protractor onto the front of the cam, fit the follower and pushrod. With a digital indicator on he top of the pushrod I measure lift every degree for an inlet and exhaust cam. That's probably enough, but since we like to talk about valve events I multiply by rocker ratio and subtract valve clearance to get valve lift. Finally fudging the angles to crank and 'dialling' the cam straight up.

I also have a Mitsubishi Evo head sat here, that's a bit trickier, I assemble the head with very soft springs, and a solid tappet which I shim until the valve is just off the seat. With the head upside down I plot the position of the valve every mm.

link shows a comparison of two generations of cam against a standard one:
http://www.rtoc.org/library/file.asp?id=44425

Andy
 
im more puzzled than i was now, cheers guys, lol

Wrenchable said:
Well i can get piper cams at trade price plus discount so i will be doing figures to make a cam that will work best form engine. I'll post the figures up for anyone to comment or advise before sending it off to be reground.
Click to expand...

what sort of price you going to be lookin at?
 
Are the piper cams supplied to be fitted 'straight up' ? Every aftermarket cam spec sheet I have seen specifies that the cam is to be degreed to their specs. I have heard a few people say they have fitted cams to their k10 but of no one who has fitted/made an adjustable pulley. If they are to be degreed you could very well be losing power by just fitting it to the stock timing.
 
There's a good chance that it should be dialled straight up. My experience with Piper cams in the Renault is that they aren't too fussy about setting the cams right in the grinder, my worst example was 9deg out, and I've heard of worse. Not sure if it's linked to them selling a vernier for the Renault... I certainly wouldn't fit one and assume it was timed right. Timing errors exempted I do like their cam for the 5.
 

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