handbrake adjustment

hi guys

can someone help me with handbrake problems and what to start with. i think my dad adjusted the handbrake from inside and it seems very tight just to get it to 1 click. it doesnt seem to be holding as the car was starting to roll back on a slight gradient....my dad took off the drums at back and didnt see any kind of adjustments. any ideas on what to check, also what is the brake shoe tollerance cos my dad says the brake shoes only have about 2mm left on shoes do these need replaced?

ive posted photo link to show brake shoes....
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/kakawak/CIMG0681.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/kakawak/CIMG0677.jpg


k11 inspiration 1.3

if anybody has an air conditioning radiator for sale please let me know as mines is bust!

regards me
 

frank

Club Member
if the self adjusters are,nt working ok (they rarely do fwn ) then adjusting the nut under the handbrake lever will make the mechanism not work properly.
you need to back off the nut then remove the drums and twist the adjusting barrel on the shoes (make sure the lever/arm is fully retracted first)
 
OP
OP
K
can you tell me where the self adjusters are located and is there a diagram kicking about to show this? also how far back will i adjust the nut at handbrake? and when you talk about the lever/arm is this the handbrake off or different? if you see the photos do i need to take off the hub to access the self adjusters?

i found a photo with the hub off...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UekexCK7TJ8/Sk9xOhu1LSI/AAAAAAAAAVg/wsr_2wgrJEQ/s1600-h/DSC_0003.JPG

if you can tell me where the self adjusters are on this photo since mine isnt as clear would appreciate!


kind regards me
 

pollyp

Club Member
its just below the red spring.

i believe they tend to seize up n stop adjusting from build up of brake dust/dirt & rust so then the shoes rest too far away and requires longer handbrake travel to engage.

i recommend taking it apart, fully loosen the handbrake nut, clean up the adjusters threads, regrease the adjuster, screw the adjusters ratchet nut all the way in, refit back together, retighten the handbrake nut till you only feel the handle resist just as you lift it towards the 1st click.

now the shoes are currently resting too far away and the self adjuster works by ratcheting itself closer to the drum every time the handbrake is released after application. so pull up & release the handbrake in a smooth manner repeatedly to crank away the ratchet. in a quiet garage you can hear the ratchet teeth click up one teeth as you pull the handbrake and when you release, the return spring turns the self adjuster nut making the shoes rest rest abit closer. keep cranking away until the clicking stops, then the adjustment is complete and the shoes are resting as close as possible to the drums requiring little handbrake travel to engage.
 
OP
OP
K
would you say my brake shoes need replaced with the photo ive shown in the links. also just to clarify the adjusters are the circular silver attachment with green spring in column?

regards
 

frank

Club Member
would you say my brake shoes need replaced with the photo ive shown in the links. also just to clarify the adjusters are the circular silver attachment with green spring in column?

regards

they look very thin/worn at the bottom (they need to be 2 - 3mm ideally) and the lever arrowed in the pic needs to be fully back before setting the adjusters (else the throw will be wrong and the handbrake will be weak)
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • shoes.JPG
    shoes.JPG
    75 KB · Views: 10,572
OP
OP
K
hi frank

sorry for not being specific its the first two photo links and not the one with the hub off. where you point with the arrow in photo does the adjusters control that arm which should be behind the shoes or flush with the arc of the shoe?

regards
 

pollyp

Club Member
they look very thin/worn at the bottom (they need to be 2 - 3mm ideally) and the lever arrowed in the pic needs to be fully back before setting the adjusters (else the throw will be wrong and the handbrake will be weak)
attachment.php

the top & bottom of the shoe appear similar in thickness, prob cos of the perspective, but yeah they're almost reaching the minimum.

agree the handbrake arm you arrowed should be resting further back when the handbrakes released in order to utilize the full stroke,
hence therefore i recommended fully loosening the handbrake cable nut to reset, overhaul the seized adjuster, then retighten the handbrake cable nut till it only starts to resist upon the 1st handbrake handle click (so that when handbrake is fully released, the handbrake arm is resting fully back)
 

pollyp

Club Member
would you say my brake shoes need replaced with the photo ive shown in the links. also just to clarify the adjusters are the circular silver attachment with green spring in column?

regards

the circular silver ring & green spring is just the brake shoe retainers which keep the shoes resting against the backplate.

the self-adjuster is the silver tube rod just behind the red spring there. the casted tube end hooks onto the moving handbrake arm on the right. the other seperate end is a threaded bar with a ratchet nut and hooked onto the left shoe.
the spring loaded finger on the left touching the ratchet nut is the self adjuster

drumbrake..JPG
 

frank

Club Member
the top & bottom of the shoe appear similar in thickness, prob cos of the perspective, but yeah they're almost reaching the minimum.

i doubt its perspective paul (the friction material is no thicker than the steel backing at the 2nd arrow)
and kakawak, nut in the car will probably need backing off again in order for the arm to be set fully back, then you need to turn the ratchet mech till the shoes are lightly touching the drum (ie, the drum will spin fairly freely but catching very slightly).
once that is done the arm will have the correct swing and you will be able then to adjust the nut in the car for the correct amount of clicks
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • shoes.JPG
    shoes.JPG
    75.8 KB · Views: 7,557

pollyp

Club Member
also the reason why it felt tight to get towards the 1st click is cos, even when the handbrake was released, the handbrake cable nut was tightened so much that the handbrake arm was pulled so far up as arrowed in order to get the shoes close enough (cos the adjuster has stopped working) that the handbrake arm would be pulled against the spring at the end of the handbrake cable therefore causing additional resistance when you pull the handbrake.
 

pollyp

Club Member
i doubt its perspective paul (the friction material is no thicker than the steel backing at the 2nd arrow)
and kakawak, nut in the car will probably need backing off again in order for the arm to be set fully back, then you need to turn the ratchet mech till the shoes are lightly touching the drum (ie, the drum will spin fairly freely but catching very slightly).
once that is done the arm will have the correct swing and you will be able then to adjust the nut in the car for the correct amount of clicks
attachment.php

ah yes, indeed. that shoe does look real thin there.

replacing shoes then overhauling the self-adjuster and resetting the handbrake arm will resolve all these issues
 
OP
OP
K
hi pollyp and frank

thanks for the info on the picture but i have to state again that the photo link youve amended is not my brake shoe as posted previously. i will have a look and adjust all accordingly, im assuming you do both rear wheels at the same time or do you adjust them individually?

please check my first 2 photo links and tell me if they need replaced

thank you very much

regards me
 

pollyp

Club Member
oops, yeah sorry. they look fine imo, afew more thousands miles of meat left to go
CIMG0681..jpg

and yeah check/overhaul & reset both self adjusters at the same time
 
OP
OP
K
hi

having just quickly google hub nut size someone said 32mm which i bought now realised it was 30mm cant take back now. so my problem now is i cant get the driver side hub off as it looks like the previous owner has butchered it with a hammer! is this left or right hand threaded im assuming its the normal anti clockwise for slackening off! any ideas on what to do.....can i adjust this with the hub on (im guessing no)? if i cant get the drivers side off and i manage to sort the passenger side will this work?

regards me
 

frank

Club Member
you can adjust them no probs with the hub on, but removing/refitting the shoes etc is a mission tho :eek:
(and normal righthand threads btw)
 
OP
OP
K
hmmm after all the adjusting etc... my dad hammered the cover back on totally destroying half the brake pad at passenger side. im much more wiser now on how to adjust these but my only concern now is removing the butchered hub nuts. we did manage to get the handbrake working but it seems that the driver side has more bite than the passenger. either way im gonna have to get brake shoes now :( but im greatful for the advice on this and hope this helps others.

regards me :)
 

pollyp

Club Member
oh dear lord, is ur dad like jeremy clarkson fixing practically anything with a big hammer :p

when taking the drum off your suppose to poke through a grometed access hole on the backplate which disengages the handbrake arm stopper inside allowing the arm to release fully hence the shoes fully retract inward clear from the drum (especially if the edge of the drum has developed a ridge) and the drum should just slide off.

when refitting the drum back on, you should oil/grease and reset the self-adjuster ratchet nut by screwing it all the way back (pull the ratchet finger slightly clear of the nut with one hand while turning the ratchet nut clockwise on the thread) which shortens the length of the adjuster mechanism, allowing the heavy red spring to pull the shoes together clear away from the drum surface. so then when you refit the drum it should just slide right on without hitting anything.

generally upon refitting if something resists and you force it, unless its an intentional press fit, that something is gonna give and break
 

pollyp

Club Member
um wouldn't the uneven braking force be caused by the butchering of the nearside shoes from hammering the drum straight through it? hence nearside brake is less effective due to reduced shoe contact area
 

pollyp

Club Member
hi

having just quickly google hub nut size someone said 32mm which i bought now realised it was 30mm cant take back now. so my problem now is i cant get the driver side hub off as it looks like the previous owner has butchered it with a hammer! is this left or right hand threaded im assuming its the normal anti clockwise for slackening off! any ideas on what to do.....can i adjust this with the hub on (im guessing no)? if i cant get the drivers side off and i manage to sort the passenger side will this work?

regards me

what conditions the offside hubnut in. is it fully rounded or are there still 6 sides to it? if its usable, check the nut size with a caliper, get a 6 sided tight fitting socket of the measured size and loosen it anticlockwise with a large breaker bar. once removed, replace it with another micras nut taken from the scrappy
 
OP
OP
K
hi pollyp


the 32mm socket should still work as its graspin pretty well. i didnt tell him about the grometed access hole you mentioned cos we didnt know that was part of the process and wasnt listed in your instructions...live and learn anyhoos the car still brakes the same even though half the brake shoe is missing lol

the 6 sides are ok and not round but this thing is well hard...tried the breaker bar and its still not budging. just not sure how to tackle this when i get new brake shoes.

thanks for your help guys

cheers
 

pollyp

Club Member
yeah the rear hub nuts are well tight especially old untouched ones. i was first scared of yankin the breaker bar too hard and snapping the axle off but with patience and persistance it eventually let go with a bang and no more probs after that once greased.

spray abit of lube on the threads to soak in then try again. if no luck then try heat up just the nut (small blowtorch?) to expand it and try again.
 
OP
OP
K
hi guys

can i just say what a pig of a job and there were a few F's and C's involved god damn terrible design....stevie wonder couldve designed better anyways.....

ive managed to get the brake shoes on the drivers side however, the handbrake still doesnt work as good. i took the drum off and this is what im doing....

1. i loosened the handbrake nut inside the car
2. adjusted the self adjusted rachet as the overall length of the arm with the self adjuster is shorter im assuming this is correct
3. attached the drum back on
4. tighten the handbrake nut
5. tested the handbrake with several clicks before it starts to tighten.

should i change both sides before i test handbrake if so then i will do that. i just wanted to test to see if there was any kind of resistance with the drivers side being done.

i also tried the rear passenger side to see if the wheel turned and it did so im stumped here

please help

regards me
 
OP
OP
K
handbrake still not working having replaced the shoes.......any ideas????
when i pull the handbrake i hear the cable bang off the underside of the motor this is because i havent tightened up the nut inside the car. even when i do tighten it up the handbrake still wont work. ive done the difficult part but it seems worse than it was before i started this whole mess :(

managed to get both sides on but the passenger side was real hard to get on and that was with the self adjuster shortened to max. still cant find this grommet hole.

also pollyp quoted....

when taking the drum off your suppose to poke through a grometed access hole on the backplate which disengages the handbrake arm stopper inside allowing the arm to release fully hence the shoes fully retract inward clear from the drum (especially if the edge of the drum has developed a ridge) and the drum should just slide off.

i cant seem to find this grometed hole is it at the top of the backplate or bottom cos the only hole i seen was covered with a rubber cover which didnt do anything when i poked a screwdriver through it.

regards
 
OP
OP
K
update

loosened the nut inside car, pushed the handbrake arm back with screwdriver so it was flush with arc. now i readjusted the handbrake cable as said but the handbrake doesnt seem to be holding that well. it holds on 4 clicks ( on hill but still kinda weak)but i tried to do a handbrake stop and it was very weak any ideas???

regards me
 

frank

Club Member
dont expect too much kakawak, if the drums are worn, or new shoes not bedded in, or cables dry/sticky then you,re not gonna lock the rears on dry tarmac eh
 
OP
OP
K
dont expect too much kakawak, if the drums are worn, or new shoes not bedded in, or cables dry/sticky then you,re not gonna lock the rears on dry tarmac eh

when you say that the cables dry sticky....they are! i had to push back with screwdriver. how do you slacken or can you grease up the cable so it frees up more?

the reason why this needs done is cos its going in for an MOT today so will it fail for not holding well?

kind regards me

and many thanks for your help guys :)
 

frank

Club Member
when you say that the cables dry sticky....they are! i had to push back with screwdriver. how do you slacken or can you grease up the cable so it frees up more?

the reason why this needs done is cos its going in for an MOT today so will it fail for not holding well?

kind regards me

and many thanks for your help guys :)

i doubt you would get any oil down the cables without fully removing them, so if you have new shoes on i would heavily cross-scratch the drum face and drive around with the handbrake on so that they bed in somewhat (and cross your fingers lol)
 
Top