germank11's micra-project

CMF_germank11

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Hello everybody,

i received a email from matthew, thats what he said:

"Picture 4.
This one is going to be difficult.
Plug number 6 connects to a block connector under the dash and in the centre close to where the ECU is located. Have you still got the original ECU fitted?

---the problem is, i know where to fit, in the middle between the black and white/yello wone, but i don't know what it is for---


Plug number 4 is for the wiper motor, one small problem you might find is the block connector will not reach your wiper motor because this loom is for a RHD car and you have a LHD car so the wiper motors are on different sides.

Plug number 5 goes onto the fast idle device on the front of the air flow meter.

Plugs 1,2 and 3 look like they are for the piggy back ECU, one is possibly and live and earth. You need to trace these back the to piggy back unit. 2 might be for the water temperature sensor, this is who the piggy back unit gets the standard ECU to increase the fuelling by sending false reading back from this sensor. Have a look at the instructions I sent for the Piggy back unit."

---i have looked to the instructions, but there are no informations about the installation of the piggy back. Could someone tell me where to locate the water temperature sensor? Later i will get back into the garage and have a look on the harness/ecu and #1 and #3, but i'm a little bit afraid to connect it wrog and damage the whole ecu, don't want to cause a short circuit...---
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok i am back, nearly ready, the engine back in its old place, the mountings have been a little bit stronger to fit in, but no problem. I have shot some pictures of the harness again, because i have looked to it and traced every wire, i guess it is for the lamda sensot like frank had said. I compared the stock harness with the new, and i have noticed that the lamda-connector is missing.
In a few minutes i will post the pictures, but at first i am going to take a shower... i am totally frozen ...
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok, i have tried to mark everything on the picture. I wil try to explain:
#19 is a connector at the ignition distributor. As you can see on the pic, the wire is splitted into the white wire, green wire, and the other white wire back to the harness. The red wire on the picture is "dead". I will add an detailed pic, there is no trace of damage i think, and on the end where the green on is "fixed" is just place for one wire.
The other two small wires, both with blue cap, black-red and white-red wire, are wired into the harness on the point where the harness comes out of the firewall.

Sorry, wrong folder and wrong picture!!
 

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CMF_germank11

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the view into the connector of the small green wire, i think there is just room for one wire, don't think the red one moved out of it...
 

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CMF_germank11

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That is my only idea... because the lamda-connector is 3-wired... but i don't know where to fit the small red-cap and the green-wire-connector. I just thought that it makes sense, red to red ...
 

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CMF_germank11

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Excuse me, please forget the lamda-sensor-idea... my brain was too frozen... i have overlooked the connector for the lambda-sensor, so the search goes on.
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok, now i know the engine was used without a lamber-sensor before, could that be the problem? Because the standard connector for the senso looks so dirty on the inside, no way that it was used/plugged in.
I don't know much about running a car without a lamber sensor, but could it be that remaining wires was used to create/fake a signal? Correct me if i am wrong, but i thought all the time the engine needs a signal to create the mixture, right?
 

CMF_germank11

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Sorry, i don't know to translate the word common exactly.
The engine was used without a cat and almber-sensor yes, but i thought the ecu needs some signal to create the mixture? Because the stock engine runs with sensor+cat.
 

CMF_germank11

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Yes but i think thats the way it is at every car, opel audi and many more. I mean, when you disconnect the lambda sensor, what will happen? Would there be some kind of error? Thats why i thought the wires were used to fake some signals... but i am only thinking. I am now going to write an email to dastek, hope that will gring some clearing answers...
 

CMF_turbo march-rolling shell

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germank11 WROTE:

"Yes but i think thats the way it is at every car, opel audi and many more. I mean, when you disconnect the lambda sensor, what will happen? Would there be some kind of error? Thats why i thought the wires were used to fake some signals... but i am only thinking. I am now going to write an email to dastek, hope that will gring some clearing answers...
Click to expand...

many computers run without the lambda sensor. it is only there as a guide for the factory computer anyway. the factory lambda sensor will only aid in adjusting the mixtures a tiny bit. i guess if you set the ecu up properly you could disconnect it without any dramas... as has probably been done already.
 

CMF_germank11

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I got some news, the engine breathed today for the first time. At first there was much of troubleshooting.. all the time the engine wasn't able to start, all sparkplugs have been wet. Over two hours i searched for the error, and at least i don't know exactly what it have been, because i changed the sparkplugs and ignitionleads, changed some parts on the ignitiondistributor and some more, but the main point is the engine was able to run in the end. Tomorrow i will fit the rest of the exhaustsystem, give me all your luck, the car must be ready tomorrow...

I keep you up to date.

Ps.: Perhaps the air intake will be for sale, because i need some chassis-modifications to install it... but i don't know for sure...
 

CMF_germank11

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The problem will be the german "Tüv" , the company making the "MOT". It is not that easy like in Australia UK or somewhere. It is really ****ed up here in germany... but i will keep you up to date, perhaps i get some ideas... :)
 

CMF_germank11

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Hey everybody, the car is ready. It is not that expansion of power i have expectedm, but i think it will in fact of the stock-cat, the small air intake, and the mapping, it still needs high octane...

But there is a big problem, the revmeter doens't work... could someone tell me which wires are for on the stock? Because there have been/are some differnces, for an example the temperaturesensor was connected wrong, now it work after 3 hours of troubleshooting. But the revmeter still won't work... please give me some advices..

Ps.: Have a good new year!
 

CMF_frank2

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christian

the stock tacho is signaled from the ecu (there,s a pdf ecu pinout diagram on here somewhere), and most people use the blue wire from the dizzy to signal an aftermarket tacho.
is your piggyback ecu installed ?

have a good new year too, frank
 

CMF_germank11

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Yes both, the normal ecu, and the piggyback. Matthew told me that the previous owner used a seperate revmeter. But i am a little bit unsure, did not have any 1.3 K11 a revmeter? Or are there differences between the harnesses?
 

CMF_frank2

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christian

my 1.0 dot has no tacho wire in the loom (nor many base models)
if you,ve redirected the signal that previously went to the stock ecu, you will lose the signal out (to the stock tacho) eh

frank
 

CMF_germank11

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Hm ok, could you tell me where the revmeter gets his signal from?
I have compared the stock harness and this one, no difference in the enginebay to my old one, besides the small wires.
I have also traced one of the small wires back to the harness under the dash, it was dead/not connected... strange...
 

CMF_frank2

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christian

if your distributor signal is now going to the piggyback the stock ecu may not be getting an input signal, so you will probably need to run a wire from the dizzy (blue) to the back of the dashpod/clocks

frank
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok thanks i will have a look. Another question: the brown connector near the ecu's at the picture, what is it for? My car doesn't used this slot, but on the harness there was an orange-black, red, and green-red wire connected. The orange-black one was relevant for the engine temperature, i re-connected it to the white/yellow connectorslot and now it works.
The brown connector that i am talking about is numberd with #6 some pictures/posts before.

regards,

christian
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok, today i traced the harness again, and connected the blue/black wire, now the revmeter works!

But another question, this morning the rev's jumped from 1000 to 1500, after another few kilometers the idle was set by 900-1000, and now after 20 kilometers, the rev in the idle is set by 2100. Is there an option to adjust the idle? I have naver worked on it before.

regards,
christian
 

CMF_frank2

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christian

there,s a procedure in the haynes where you have to dicconnect the t/p/s, then hold the revs, then reconnect it.
and the black plastic screw on the rear corner of the t/b is supposed to be the tickover screw (it an air bleed that bypasses the butterfly)

frank
 

CMF_SSUK

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frank2 WROTE:

"christian<BR><BR>i think the k11,s run open loop (disreguarding the lambda signal) at wide open throttle, and closed loop (signaled from the lambda) only when cruising<BR><BR>frank
Click to expand...

The K11 ecu's run entirely in closed loop.....even at WOT.
 

CMF_germank11

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Good morning.

Thanks frank, i will have a look on it, but a few minutes ago i moved the micra from our garage to the parkingplace in front of our house, and the idle was running smooth on 1000. I will check the idle over the day, and than come back to your advice!
 

CMF_fred

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are u sure SSUK... i have a A/F ratio meter and when I floor it, the engine will go out of closed loop..... With a turbo, this happens at about 5 inches of vacuum... for me anyhow...

Keep up the great work there Christian! Its gunna be a good year of driving for you!
 

CMF_SSUK

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100% sure, I've seen the maps in live trace myself. One of our guys in particular here in the UK knows the K11 ECU's very well. He has successfully re-mapped several ECU's, including mine as well as a few turbo setups. The standard ECU barely uses 1/2 of it's load scale and the whole fuelling table is closed loop. The maps had to be altered manually to go onto open loop and it's not without it's pitfalls....the K11 ecu's are not easy to work with without experience.

In my case, even on an NA setup, we decided it far simpler to go aftermarket and we now in the process of fitting an OMEX 600 series ecu with a DIS ignition setup.

A dastek or similar will work but it just depends on what you are happy with and what your goals are. I am going all out aftermarket, as eventually I will be running a high compression engine with throttlebodies, which the standard ecu will not be able to run.....well not without some serious modifications....the OMEX on the other hand will handle it easily and keep the mapping setup simple.
 

CMF_germank11

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By the way, is there an option to get some other speedometer's fitting into the micra? I have just thought about, because a friend of mine, working on cars and switching engines, told me that the "Tüv" required a bigger speedometer (->220 / ->240) on his projects.
Yesterday i have been on the speedway for a short testdrive. The engine speed limiter is removed for sure, it breaks the 7500 RPM!
Hell yeah, the speedometer showed 190km/h in the 4th gear on 175/60/13 (winter-tyres) and it is still running the stock air-intake and stock-cat.

regards,
christian
 

CMF_germank11

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Wouh i don't know, wasn't interested in it, main thing has been the engine runs ;-) But i will have a look at it the next weeks. But for sure, power comes in in the 2nd gear at 4000rpm...woooh, damn, very nice!
 

CMF_germank11

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Hey folks!

same problem again with the idle: A few minutes ago i have been out for a short drive to the garage and the bank.
I have started the engine, and the idle was like "dead". The engine would die without pushing the gaspedal. I needed to keep the revs around 2000rpm to drive out of our parking place in front of the house. Than i drove for 1.2km and had to stop at a crossroad. Ok, the idle was setted on ~900rpm, but right on the start when i pushed the gaspedal, there was quite nothing, needed to push the clutch again and bring the engine on some revs, but there was no reaction by pushing the gaspedal inbetween the first 7 seconds.
Ok on the way to the garage i pushed the clutch to check the idle, everytime the idle jumps for 4 seconds from 1000 to 1500 rpm, but than calmed down on continuous 1000. Arrived at the garage (7km from our house to the garage) i stopped the engine, unloaded the parts into the garage, and started the engine again (after ~5minutes). The idle was now set on 2100rpm directly, now jumping, no gaspedal pushing. And on the whole way back the idle was set on 2100. Sometimes i slowed down the car on 50kmh in the 5th gear, the idle comes down on ~1200rpm, but right in the moment of pushing the clutch, the idle goes up to 2100, it is like someone is pushing the gaspedal.

It is strange... this morning i installed the shortshifter, and moved the car into our garage behind our house (same thing with the idle, engine wants to die). The engine runned for ~15 Minutes, so it was warm, the cooler was running, but there was nothing serious with the idle.

Forgot to say: When the idle is set on 2100rpm, and you change the gear on 3500 for an example, an push the clutch, the revs falling down veeery slowly down to 2100rpm.

regards,
christian

Until now there was no time to check the accelerator cable, but could it be really the problem?
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok, if i change the throttlebodies between my two engine the problem should be fixed, cause the old one runned 100% perfect, or am i going wrong?
 

CMF_germank11

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Forgot to say, a few minutes ago the same problem. Engine has been on working temperature, i restarted him, idle was setted on 2100rpm directly. I also checked the temperature sensor, the black-white wire was only connected with 1 and a half wire left. I repaired it with the old connector (~30 minutes), and restarted the engine (not completely cooled down) and the idle was set on ~1800rpm.
 

CMF_germank11

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Thanks frank. Matthew told me something about that and i have tried it this morning, but matthews describtion was shorter and not that detailed. I hope it will work with asdame instruction. I also have removed the old TB from the old engine, perhaps i will change it.

But one thing for sure, after repairing the sensor the idle is set high on 2100 cold as warm...

I don't know where the idle is governed, tomorrow i will trace the wires again.

Thanks so far,
regards,
christian
 

CMF_germank11

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Hey,

a few minutes ago i worked on the throttelbody. At first i tried to set the base idle following asdames "guide". Only thing happened: By disconnecting the throttle-position-sensor the idle raised up to 3100, I tried to adjust it on the black idle screw, but totally screwed in the idle was still set by ~2500rpm.
Ok i have been pissed of, removed the TB and installed my old one, now it works (so far, later the day i will take it for a long test drive, but until now the revs are falling while shifting, and the idle is set by 1000rpm, if the idle is set lower the engine dies.)
But is it normal that the idle raise a little bit when you disconnect the throttle-position-sensor? While disconnecting it i set the idle on ~1500rpm, and like i said now it is smooth on 1000rpm.

Soooo, next things will be the remap after installing the air-intake, the other muffler (hope it will be quieter) and the high flow cat. The cat arrives today, it is a Magnaflow 200cpsi, hope it will work fine. Also i ordered the coilovers inbetween a "sponsoring-action", this allows me to buy it for the half price ;-)
The Gti-R calipers have been sandblasted yesterday, perhaps i am going for some color, but at first new discs and pads. So there is still enough work.

Main problem will be the exhaust-assessment i need to pass the TÃœV. Any suggestions for it? I think the problem will be the "cold start" in fact of the removed 1st cat in the manifold. I have thought about a system called "cold-run-adjust-system (i tried to translate). It is a system adjusting the phase when the engine/cat/lambdasensor is not working on the working temperature, to reduce the emissions. Normally it is used to change the emission class from EURO1 to EURO2, but i hope it will help me jsut to KEEP EURO1. The Problem is, while failing the assessment, you still have to pay the costs, around ~1000Euro (it is about 1300 US Dollar) .

So far, have a nice day @ all
 

CMF_germank11

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Ok... slowly but surely it is gonna be stupid. This morning i installed the other TB, set the idle on 1000rpm. So far so good, a few minutes ago i was out for a short ride, 7km from a to b and back. On the trip back, the same problem, but now on 1800rpm. I played around with the black idle screw, but after a while the problem was, by adjusting the screw to the "normal" idle with connected positionsenser -> the engine dies when DISconnecting the sensor... i have been a little bit stressed out, and in fact of that i adjusted the black idle screw with connected positionsensor, and it works too, don't know any problems. The problem for the moment : Either is set the idle high, the engine is able to keep alive while standing (doing nothing, waiting on a crossroad) but after a few minutes of driving the idle is set on 1800/1900, or: i set the idle as low as possible, after a few minutes of driving everything is ok, but while waiting/standing the idle falls at first on 1000, and than in steps to 700/800 and than the engine dies...
I will experiment a few settings with the screw tomorrow, if i am not going crazy at first...
 

CMF_germank11

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Another question, in front of the throttlebody, on the connector for the FICD/ACC unit, there are one red and one black wire connected normally. On this harness both wires has been removed. Anyone knows what they are good for? I have looked into the wiring diagram, but i am not 100% sure what they are good for...
 

CMF_germank11

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Hey fred, yes it is, i have found it in the micra-book. But i mean the idle problem. It is still the same, just after a restart and after the first meters when the RPM come over 2000, it won't fall below 2000 RPM...
 

CMF_frank2

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christian

can you not see the data on the fly (via consult and laptop) in order to find out what is being signaled when it is "high idle-ing" ?
i,ve got no idle control valves at all and i run on gas (and i set the idle with a vacuum bleed valve on the dash), but sometimes the tickover will hunt up and down ???, (maybe my ecu can,t make it,s mind up where to set the ignition advance eh ?)

frank
 
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