Turbo/sc/nitrous

gtsnissanb said:
well maybe you should give the lad correct information
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well, i didnt give any information and to me sudden rush of power can be something what powerful N/A or S/Ced does when you floor it. i must have obviously misunterstood.

this is my post from yesterday in similar thread

Superchargers are driven by belt so they dont use exhaust gases, they give boost all the time, but also take power from the engine to spool/spin unlike turbos. So if you imagine -50hp to drive supercharger but it will give 100hp back so you are still 50hp in plus. Just example
I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm, but thats exactly what many people like. including me.
I think turbos are possibly more popular cos they dont involve as much work I would say.

I think there was thread like this i just couldn't find it. (meaning this one)

didnt even need to write an essay (Y)
 
mckenziecz said:
well, i didnt give any information and to me sudden rush of power can be something what powerful N/A or S/Ced does when you floor it. i must have obviously misunterstood.

this is my post from yesterday in similar thread

Superchargers are driven by belt so they dont use exhaust gases, they give boost all the time, but also take power from the engine to spool/spin unlike turbos. So if you imagine -50hp to drive supercharger but it will give 100hp back so you are still 50hp in plus. Just example
I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm, but thats exactly what many people like. including me.
I think turbos are possibly more popular cos they dont involve as much work I would say.

I think there was thread like this i just couldn't find it. (meaning this one)

didnt even need to write an essay (Y)
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well i read it one way you read it another
i didnt write an essay on the differences between tubbys and superchargers i answered a few different questions that a few people had asked all in one post(Y)
also i massively dissagree with ''I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm'' my s14 turbo comes in around 1200rpm pulling hard by 2000rpm, my dads 495bhp evo 9 pulls from 2500rpm but you can forgive that as it does near enough 200mph and still with such lag completes 0-60 in a proven 3.8 seconds
superchargers are much better suited to large v8 engine imo but saying that bugatti veyron uses 4 turbos so turbos cant be all badgrr
 
mckenziecz said:
Im not even English so we can talk once you are fluent in 4 languages. good luck
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2 but thats a different matter, i didnt know you werent english. i have a friend whos name is mckenzie who is english and you live in surrey so there werent exactly many clues about your language
 
gtsnissanb said:
also i massively dissagree with ''I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm'' my s14 turbo comes in around 1200rpm pulling hard by 2000rpm, my dads 495bhp evo 9 pulls from 2500rpm but you can forgive that as it does near enough 200mph and still with such lag completes 0-60 in a proven 3.8 seconds
superchargers are much better suited to large v8 engine imo but saying that bugatti veyron uses 4 turbos so turbos cant be all badgrr
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Well this is just never ending argument whats better. For example you wouldn't use turbo on many dragsters cos by that time turbo gives you boost you've finished. Depends what you after I suppose.
Veyron has got 4 turbos to actually remove the lag. Two of them are small and two are big just like some BMW got two turbos.
 
also the above integra i had turbo charged was sold as a jr supercharged integra as i swapped to supercharger after a few months as the turbo was knackard and i got offered the s/c kit cheap and the new turbo was more expensive from the two i can honestly say urbo charged integra on a t3/t4 hybrid much more fun than the supercharged version, although it was noticeably faster than stock i got used to the power quickly in supercharged form and missed the hard kick from the turbo
 
mckenziecz said:
Well this is just never ending argument whats better. For example you wouldn't use turbo on many dragsters cos by that time turbo gives you boost you've finished. Depends what you after I suppose.
Veyron has got 4 turbos to actually remove the lag. Two of them are small and two are big just like some BMW got two turbos.
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but many dragsters use v8's as i said superchargers suit v8s much better
smaller engines as in skylines and supras use turbos and are getting 8 second times not to shabby considering its half the displacement
yeah they use smaller sequential turbos which switch as specific rpm/boost levels
 
Lag is something what manufactures mostly fight against and that makes supercharger better in public eyes.
i said
I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm, (meaning turbo) but thats exactly what many people like. including me.
 
mckenziecz said:
Lag is something what manufactures mostly fight against and that makes supercharger better in public eyes.
i said
I think supercharges are better, its giving boost constantly, more revs more boost, and not one sudden kick after 3000rpm, (meaning turbo) but thats exactly what many people like. including me.
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better in public eyes? i dont know a single person who will tell me they want a supercharged car over a turbocharged car
thats your opinion and certainly not the opinion of the public
if it were much more cars would be supercharged as standard, as manufacturers would recognise the public demand
also superchargers do give boost from the word go but not full boost as boost increases as revs increase so if we use the jr supercharger its pre set for 9psi but only gives that at 6500rpm were as my old t28 gives 19 psi by 3000rpm it may have nothing for 1500rpm but when it comes in it holds it all the way to redline which id prefer
 
gtsnissanb said:
i dont know a single person who will tell me they want a supercharged car overf a turbocharged car
thats your opinion and certainly not the opinion of the public
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I would take turbo, same as any other car nut. By public eye I mean an average family guy. I dont think Peter the layer would be well impressed with his t28 that gives him 19 psi by 3000rpm while hes taking his family to asda.
 
mckenziecz said:
I would take turbo, same as any other car nut. By public eye I mean an average family guy. I dont think Peter the layer would be well impressed with his t28 that gives him 19 psi by 3000rpm while hes taking his family to asda.
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i dont think peter would be buying a turbo charged performance car for shopping either more like a 530d beemer or x5
 
and thats what im saying. turbos are good for few people. but not for majority. thats for make supercharges better. they are less noticeable from NA.
 
mckenziecz said:
and thats what im saying. turbos are good for few people. but not for majority. thats for make supercharges better. they are less noticeable from NA.
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i refer to olly's earlier post ''So a turbo could be considered similar to my 2-stroke, pretty flat and at a certain rpm a nice kick?

Personally I enjoy a sudden rush of power, it makes it more noticeable, even if it's less useful.'' olly says he wants something with a sudden rush of power and is more noticeable
you suggested a supercharger, i said your wrong he wants a turbo
but now you yourself say superchargers are less noticeable
which was what started this debate between usfwn
 
gtsnissanb said:
DOH:wasntme::blush:
No worries mate
any way rule of thumb is small low bhp engine use a turbo as it robs less power to run and the power gains are easier to obtain
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I Don't agree :laugh: There is no real rule of thumb. Nissan are supercharging their new 3cyl 1.2 Micra. I agree that turbos are generally more efficient but that is also not always the case. They 'rob' a whole lot more power than 6% as well.
 
Ed said:
I Don't agree :laugh: There is no real rule of thumb. Nissan are supercharging their new 3cyl 1.2 Micra. I agree that turbos are generally more efficient but that is also not always the case. They 'rob' a whole lot more power than 6% as well.
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Turbos take a very small amount of WASTED energy to run, wereas a supercharger takes enery that the car is developing to run.
Theres a big difference, as if you stuck a turbo onto an n/a engine but dont plumb it into the intake there would be very little difference in performance if you did the same with a supercharger it would leach over half the cars power and would be massively undrivable (let me add i have done this to my integra jackson racing super charger roots style charger and t3/t4 hybrid turbo kit)

mini cooper s origionally supercharged then later changed to turbo, why?
more efficient!
the small loss of power through back pressure compared to the the power loss in supercharging makes end power output higher, putting less strain on the engine to reach that out put also reducing fuel consumption and emmissions and thats from BMW
''turbos rob around 6%'' yeah ill admit is from memory, of when i was learning about forced induction in college (was a while back) but even so the amount is quite insignificent compared to the over half of the engines power the s/c leaches, and as i said taking useable power is wastefull were as turbos use wasted energy recycling sort of!
nissans supercharging a 3cylinder 1.2 is frankly upto them i cant stop them but the facts are there they cannot be argued supercharger will take over half your output yes you get more than that back but it makes more sense to me to go the turbo route
my way of thinknig:
lets say you have 100bhp engine a supercharger which offers 100bhp and a turbo which offers 100bhp and lets go with supercharger loss 60% turbo loss 12% (which is about as high as it can be)
supercharged engine 140bhp not bad
turbocharged engine 188bhp better
using the same amount of boost turbo will produce higher outputs as it takes less to run them(Y)
 
mckenziecz said:
and again you did not consider lag. like it doesn't exist. lol
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lag, is not what i was getting at and on a small turbo practically doesnt exist as most n/a engines dont start to get into their stride untill over 1000rpm which is around the point most modern efficient turbos kick in hard so lag not really an issue nowadays, ive driven 100s of turbo cars in my work at a dealership and tuning garage and turbo lag is more suited to the t4 type cossy cars, most cars are turboed and there is very little lag in most cases none turbo cars ive driven feel more laggy and unresponsive than the turbo cars
 
also i dont think ive actually introduced myself properly
Hi everybody
My names Martin
im a turbo addictgrr
id stick one up my exhaust if it would make me run faster
 
i dont know a single person who will tell me they want a supercharged car over a turbocharged car.
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And me :). Am seriously looking into an Eaton supercharger off a Mini and having a chat with Ed about it. Only prob is the atrocious lack of room in the engine bay of a K12 and the fact my car's on 90,000+ mileage. Can't afford a full rebuild.
 
well, what you were getting is that turbo gives you more power at same boost. true, but if you got large supercharger giving high boost you would also need large turbo which would give you lag.
 
one more rant superchargers arent all press and go machines as the root type blowers yeah have power the second you press your foot down but Centrifugal superchargers do not build boost at low rpm at all, so roots type the way to go:glare: not if you want boost high up as roots type cannot hold boost in high rpm hense why they are used in v8 dragsters as they use them in low rpms where all the delicious torque is! not so on a little 1 litre which has all is power in the higher rev range
so centrifugal s/c laggy
roots s/c cant hold boost tp end
 
mckenziecz said:
well, what you were getting is that turbo gives you more power at same boost. true, but if you got large supercharger giving high boost you would also need large turbo which would give you lag.
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yep but a large s/c would be a roots type that wouldnt hold high end boost and would be unsable on a low bhp engine
 
ive just for a laugh googled turbo or supercharger and its basically split right down the middle so i doubt were going to come to a conclusion ive found websites slating turbos and the terrible evil that is ''LAG'' funnily most of these are mainly american v8 or merc sites or theyre selling s/c kits, but similarly with turbos jap tuning sites all bang on about turbos and all have links to turbo technics and alike so its alway going to be a 50/50 debate so until all the turbocharger or supercharger manufacturers go bust i guess well never really know what is best. just decide for your self what you want your car to do jesus theres enough info out there.
people just want to be different and as everyone and everything seems to be turboed then supercharging seems to be the way forward but remember there are pitfalls to both, i am too bias to turbos but i have had the luxury of owning and day to day driving both types of engines so i myself know what suits me and i have adapted my driving stye to suit. LAG has never been an issue for me as ive only had rear wheel turbo cars and honda turbos both are revvy engines and im always in the higher eccelons of the rev range anyway thats why i believe small engines need turbos as they produce bhp higher up a turbo suits their needs as the revs are always above 2k when im in my next gear giving it beans so in that sense turbo lag never affects me.
http://www.ststurbo.com/c5___c5_z06_corvette heres an example of what i mean about the slating of one and not the other but yet i get the sneaking suspicion they may be a turbo supplier
 

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