clutch job (in progress, need help)

D

deian

Hi all,

I stuffed the car in the garage today to start the clutch job, having never done one before (on any car) and lack of space (the amount of crap my dad has in the garage) it's taken me a few hours just to do the first parts... battery and tray out, air duct out, starter out, cable off, g linkages off, g/box oil drained, both driveshafts out, quite straight forward so far, questions now, hope someone can help me out.

Basically the gearbox is ready to come off and it's all downhill from then on (i hope), I need to know how to go about doing this part. I have the engine supported by the jack under the sump.

How many bolts are there holding the g/box to the engine, are they all the same size, and what size are they. Are there any hidden ones? I am aware of the dowel pins.

The biggest problem I have is which mountings to take off/leave on, the haynes manual isn't the clearest book ever on these details and only have a few pics (and we all know pictures can speak a thousand words).

And what are they on about with the exhaust part? I can't see a problem there. Am I missing something?

o_O When I get it done I will do some kind of write up to help other after me.(Y)(Y)
 
The bolts are different lengths, but i believe that only two are longer and its pretty obvious where these go once you look at the box :)

Cant off the top of my head remember how many bolts hold it on, but just support the gearbox (best on a trolley jack) and work your way around the case.

You'll need to unbolt the rear gearbox/engine mount aswell as the mount that holds the gearbox up (pass side), make sure the engine is supported even chuck a wheel under there (if needs be for safety) while your getting at the rear mount...though if you undo that one first you shouldnt have anything to really worry about, as the engine cant drop to far, but probably will want to rotate slightly.

In not to sure what exhaust part youre referring to, but i cant see it causing any issues tbh.
 
Cool thanks for that, would still like some other opinions too. Can't get enough help.

As for the exhaust part, it's in the haynes manual chapter 7a (section 9), chapter12. They are referring to taking off the front down pipe.

Ta
 
The downpipe between the primary and secondary cat.

I think someone needs to a guide for this lol hint hint as i attempted a f/w change yesterday but chickened out/gave up (it was cold and dark in my garage!). What i find funny in the haynes is how you have two pictures on how to remove the airbox and duct (the easiest thing in the manual) but hardly any pics on the somewhat harder bits.
 
I think there were six bolts for my gearbox altogether, and I think they were a 14mm head but Id have to look again to be sure, its actually fairly straightforward once you get under there and start looking about. the exhaust did kinda get in my way but all you need is a short extension on a ratchet and you shouldnt have any probs getting round it, I did have problems getting the g/box back on though, theres a metal plate that sits on dowels (youll see this when you get g/box off) and it kept slipping round and stopping me locating the box properly, oh and I hope youve got a clutch aligning tool, I didnt and oh my god! mission!
 
deian yeah not a big issue with the exhaust tbh...ive removed both manuals and autos without touching the exhaust system :) . So as said so long as youve got an extension bar you'll be fine.

best way for the bolts, just to be safe...is to draw a pic of the gearbox (side on) on some card and as you remove a bolt, push it through the card into the picture in the same place. That way, it doesnt matter how many bolts or where they go...because youve just gotta refer to your pic when refitting. :)
 
I have no aligning tool, I will just measure it along 3 axis as best i can.

So the final drive is attatched to the engine and the gearbox attached to the final drive, we gotta take the final drive and gearbox as an unit right?

yes, i hate the haynes manuals, they take the normal guy too far, although there are spanners to warn you, but the spanners mean nothing once your car is appart and they give you vague advice.

i have the problem of a small cold dark garage, dad made two homemade lamps for me cos he lost his, one was a floodlight which blew it's bulb and blinded us, and the other is just a 60w bulb comin off a cable, still blinding me.

The project is abandoned for the day as i took my wife to my parents too thinking i'd be done before 5, but i wasn't and dad is 68 so it's not fair for him to be helping me with my problems. fair play to him for letting me use his garage and for parking his car outside tonight. he took us home and i'll get the bus back there tomorrow on a mean mission to finish my baby!
 
deian

there are only 4x14mm "through" bolts iirc, 1 in the r/mount, 2 near the head and 1 on the front, plus 2 lower brace bars.
i (like solarice) always leave the exhaust on, and i,m afraid my sandwich plates/sheet metal thingys always go in the bin :wasntme:.
i pays to make a mental note of the angle of g/box before you separate it (ie the diff will be hanging down quite a lot)
 
there are 3x14mm bolts that hold the gearbox to the engine, another 3 through the back mount, 3 on the right hand mount and there are 2 small bolts near the exhaust coming from brackets bolted to the block
 
what do u mean by the metal plate? is it like the gasket? is it needed? if not, does it make the clutch last that little bit longer next time cos it's closer (by what 0.3mm lol).

Do I need to take that long bar that goes longitudal to the car from the front to the back?

I guess I'll just have to take on board what you guys are saying and look myself

Thanks
 
deian said:
what do u mean by the metal plate? is it like the gasket? is it needed? if not, does it make the clutch last that little bit longer next time cos it's closer (by what 0.3mm lol).

Do I need to take that long bar that goes longitudal to the car from the front to the back?

I guess I'll just have to take on board what you guys are saying and look myself

Thanks
Click to expand...

i think the sandwich plate is just a splash/dust guard, probably quite important on dusty roads.
and the cross member can stay on :)
 
Well guys, I did it after many hours in a cold dark cramped garage with mess everywhere.

Got a couple of questions though...
There is a small black earth lead bolted onto the inner wing with a square plug on the end, can't see where that is supposed to go back on?

Also the gear oil I used... It was "Halfords: Gear Oil - Differential EP 80w/90 GL5"... it was only after buying 3 litres of it that I noticed the work differential on it, I shoved it in anyway as it's new years day. Will it be ok as the diff and gearbox share the same oil. I did read the spec in halford off their flippy book thing, but I may have picked up the wrong oil from the shelf, can anyone tell me if it's ok long term or doesn't it matter? Also Haynes manual spec GL4 oil. What is the difference.

Finally, I will just advice beginners (like me) that it's not the nicest of jobs to do, I would say it's less hassle to do the timing chain. But definately not impossible, anyone can do it if done sensibly. Very important to note where all the bolts come from, half the time I spent was looking what goes where, and swapping them about. Driveshafts come off lovely, hub nut off, two bolts off the strut, swing hub down, driveshaft out.

Job can be done with mostly 12mm and 14mm sockets and spanners, wheel nuts are 20mm (wtf? 17mm or 19mm is the usual), and the hub nut is 36 or 28, can't remember now. Phillips screwdriver can help, as well as some big flat screwdrivers to lever the box off and then to line up the angle with the engine. I drove the car up ramps, then jacked up onto stands, took ramps off for space.

Also, taking the box off and putting it back on was right pain in the back side. But for those who want do it, the box isn't heavy, I could easily lift it up off the ground with one hand (not back onto the engine) and i'm not a big bloke at all, but it is awkward and bulky to put back on and will hurt you if it rolls/falls onto you, but it won't kill you or injure you badly (not a casualty job), but it WILL damage, it's not big, but the engine bay is tight. Another thing I noticed too, lifting/pushing it back up from underneath, the clutch mechanism may be pushed open by the water pipe going into the rad at the bottom and the thrust release bearing will come off the shaft, royal pain to put it back onto the release mechanism down there, there are two pins that hold it behind the clips, watch the clips if you do it, they will fall appart if you take them off, thankfully mine fell apart in a non critical area.

Yes, the cross memeber can stay on, and the exhaust can stay on. Funny thing is, for all the time the work takes, the actual changing of the clutch is minutes!!! Crazy stuff! I'm here to help anyone else wanting to do it, altough i'm no expert, I reckon i've asked all the ones the beginners would and lived the experience. I would say it's easier to change a clutch on an RWD car!

I got a centrering tool in the end, helped a lot, I would recommend one, they aren't expensive at all.

Thank for all your help guys!
 
Thats good news then (Y) I might have another go next week. One of the things i was fearing the most was the driveshatfs lol.
 
stani, thats what i remember seeing too, but i can't for the life of me see where it goes... can anyone confirm stani's suspicions or physically check theirs for me, it is an earth for something innit.... and that oil? is it the wrong one?

robb, the driveshafts aren't bad at all, remember to drain the box tho, they'll need a prise out with a big flat s/driver, and a good shove in till they click in when u put it back.

thanks
 
deain

that oil will be fine :), if the gearchange is a bit notchy just thin it down with some engine oil (mine,s full of engine oil anyway :glance:)
 
cool thanks, i didn't think it would be too critical anyway, dad was oohing and aahing about using the exact correct oil, oil is oil, gears are gears and box and diff use the same oil in this instance. now about that little black earth lead? ta all
 
EP 80w/90 GL5 is a perfectly acceptable alternative to 75w/90 GL4 in the K11 gearboxes, which I think is what Haynes recommends......it will have more EP (extreme pressure) additives in it, which is actually a good thing from a load bearing perspective. There are reports that corrosion of 'yellow' metals such as brass/copper could be a problem, (used in gear synchros), with GL5 due to the increased EP amounts.

Although I did spend 3 years in fuel and oil analysis, I am by no means an expert :( However, I know several people using GL5 in K11 boxes, (myself included), and after stripping one of my boxes down last week I couldn't see any evidence of this....admittedly this is only after 2 years use.

As a comparison I use 80w/140 GL5 in my box, but that's for the LSD ;)
 
What is that little black earth lead for anyway.

Thanks everyone for the clarifications. Hope you all have a good year.
 
if you mean the earth wire that is bolted to the shell with a 10mm bolt that sits to the left of the starter (when looking into the bay) then there is definatly a point on the gearbox for which this connects to, its just a little metal piece that sits behind the starter, its should be clear to see :D
 
ok thanks stani, i will look better today, i thought it went somewhere like that, but i cannot for the lift of me see where it goes, what does it do tho? car still works great w/out it connected up.
 
I think the lead your talking about is the one I had trouble finding where it goes too! If you feel around the back of the g/box bell housing, very close to where the starter motor is, you'll see a stubby bit of metal where that lead should plug onto. (just noticed stani said the same thing lol!)

The aligning tool is deffo a great buy too, I ended up using a 10mm socket and extension to centre the clutch, which worked surprisingly well!
I have to say too, its not exactly an easy job either, I did a clutch change recently on my metro and that had to be a million times more simple than my micra, but its not impossible once you get your head into it, its all a bit of a learning curve and to be honest I really enjoyed the challenge too!
 
I enjoyed it too! Not many people would tackle a clutch job, it's one of the big ones when it comes to car maintenance. Along side timing belts change and head gaskets. I was apprehensive but I would rather do it myself and fluff it up myself than pay a garage to do it and have them fluff it up... it then becomes more time consuming and costly etc.

I'm don't trust mechanics tbh. I know some of you are, and the ones on these forums are here to share their help and maybe learn more about an encountered problem, i.e not an knowitall cowboy.

Thanks for all your help people. I hope this thread will serve as help to others.
 

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