Tyre Scrape!!

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Hi,

Need some advice for this horrible problem I have.

Basically, everytime I go over a speed bump a little quicker than usual, my driver side near the rear tyre makes a horrible scraping grinding noise. The car has not been lowered (yet!) and the shocks and springs seem fine.

Theres nothing on the underside that is damaged or hanging low.

However, I can see that the tyre sidewall is massively scraped on that tyre all around to the point where rubber is flailing off, so it pretty well damaged, so this must be what is scraping the arch (although there isn't any damage to the arch?).

The car has 25mm hubcentric spacers on the rear and I have 185 tyres on the rear. (This is the only non-standard thing in terms of this situation).

Causes? I guess I could just make sure to really drive slow over bumps but want to know why this has happened? Also, the rear tyres do look a bit cambered, like they are pointing outwards a little bit.

Will be grateful for any help as really stressing about this.

 

[plmval]

Hi,

Need some advice for this horrible problem I have.

Basically, everytime I go over a speed bump a little quicker than usual, my driver side near the rear tyre makes a horrible scraping grinding noise. The car has not been lowered (yet!) and the shocks and springs seem fine.

Theres nothing on the underside that is damaged or hanging low.

However, I can see that the tyre sidewall is massively scraped on that tyre all around to the point where rubber is flailing off, so it pretty well damaged, so this must be what is scraping the arch (although there isn't any damage to the arch?).

The car has 25mm hubcentric spacers on the rear and I have 185 tyres on the rear. (This is the only non-standard thing in terms of this situation).

Causes? I guess I could just make sure to really drive slow over bumps but want to know why this has happened? Also, the rear tyres do look a bit cambered, like they are pointing outwards a little bit.

Will be grateful for any help as really stressing about this.

Speed ramps damage tyres & options of defensive driving technique’s how to minimise tyre damage safety hazards already covered in MSC.

Ref; https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/tyre-wear-oddity.68478/#post-756175

May I suggest we drive over them the way professional drivers do to avoid speed hump damage as follows.

Always drive very slowly with one wheel over the centre of the cushion and one on the flat. You feel the bump, of course, but you don’t suffer hidden tyre damage that could cause a serious accident.”

I suspect that wheel spacers & 185 over size tyres have amplified the issue in this case?

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Speed ramps damage tyres & options of defensive driving technique’s how to minimise tyre damage safety hazards already covered in MSC.

Ref; https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/tyre-wear-oddity.68478/#post-756175

May I suggest we drive over them the way professional drivers do to avoid speed hump damage as follows.

Always drive very slowly with one wheel over the centre of the cushion and one on the flat. You feel the bump, of course, but you don’t suffer hidden tyre damage that could cause a serious accident.”

I suspect that wheel spacers & 185 over size tyres have amplified the issue in this case?

I thank you for your advice
Going to go super slow over bumps now
However, I'm not sure why only the rear right tyre scrapes, I have no problem with the left tire.
Maybe the tire isn't mounted properly? (I also said it looks like the tire is also cambered negatively)
I'm going to take the tire off tomorow and put it back on, see if that helps because maybe the tire isn't 'sitting' properly.

 

[plmval]

I thank you for your advice
Going to go super slow over bumps now
However, I'm not sure why only the rear right tyre scrapes, I have no problem with the left tire.
Maybe the tire isn't mounted properly? (I also said it looks like the tire is also cambered negatively)
I'm going to take the tire off tomorow and put it back on, see if that helps because maybe the tire isn't 'sitting' properly.

The visible external tyre wall damage is the visible tip of the iceberg of serious internal structural tyre damage within the tyres inner walls. Oversize tyres, low profiles & alloy wheels greatly amplify your propensity (liability) to suffer this hidden safety hazard. Replacement correct size tyres & wheels required ASAP!

Reference: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/...ng-unusual-wear-and-damage-to-my-audi-a6-s-ty

Quote: There is now new evidence that tyre failures are killing more people. A percentage of these have to be the result of abrasion of the inner shoulders of tyres against the chamfered edges of speed cushions.

Ref; https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/66969/do-speed-humps-cause-tyre-damage-

Quote; Drivers who straddle these things cause serious abrasion to the inner shoulders of their tyres that can lead to blowouts due to unseen serious internal tyre structural damage and because the damage to the inner shoulders it is not seen.

Ref; https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/...s-damage-the-insides-of-my-ford-fiesta-s-tyre

Quote; You should not try to 'straddle' speed cushions. That tears apart the inner shoulders of the tyres. Drive one wheel over the hump, and one wheel on the flat - slowly.

Make your own good luck by replacing this tyre/wheels/spacer safety hasard ASAP.

 

[LiamC]

Hi,

Need some advice for this horrible problem I have.

Basically, everytime I go over a speed bump a little quicker than usual, my driver side near the rear tyre makes a horrible scraping grinding noise. The car has not been lowered (yet!) and the shocks and springs seem fine.

Theres nothing on the underside that is damaged or hanging low.

However, I can see that the tyre sidewall is massively scraped on that tyre all around to the point where rubber is flailing off, so it pretty well damaged, so this must be what is scraping the arch (although there isn't any damage to the arch?).

The car has 25mm hubcentric spacers on the rear and I have 185 tyres on the rear. (This is the only non-standard thing in terms of this situation).

Causes? I guess I could just make sure to really drive slow over bumps but want to know why this has happened? Also, the rear tyres do look a bit cambered, like they are pointing outwards a little bit.

Will be grateful for any help as really stressing about this.

Why have you such big spacers on the back. And if it's only doing it one side then something is twisted and not sitting right. Maybe if you have a full tank of fuel, big subs and worn rear suspension it could lower the back enough that you would need an adjustable panhard rod since that's the side it moves to when lowered? But the main problem is those spacers and tyres. Way too big

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Why have you such big spacers on the back. And if it's only doing it one side then something is twisted and not sitting right. Maybe if you have a full tank of fuel, big subs and worn rear suspension it could lower the back enough that you would need an adjustable panhard rod since that's the side it moves to when lowered? But the main problem is those spacers and tyres. Way too big

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

Hi,

I like having the wheels looking level with the wheel arches at the rear. I have no subs and rarely have more than half a tank of fuel. I'm going to drive without spacers for the next few days to see if that sorts it., and also check for the tire sitting properly/twists etc.

Thanks mate.

 

[1275]

You can either fine tune the wheel position with an adjustable panhard rod or reduce the size of the spacer on the side that catches.

 

[LiamC]

Hi,

I like having the wheels looking level with the wheel arches at the rear. I have no subs and rarely have more than half a tank of fuel. I'm going to drive without spacers for the next few days to see if that sorts it., and also check for the tire sitting properly/twists etc.

Thanks mate.

Well you'd usually have to do work to have tyres level with the arch lip. They sit inside the arches for a reason. If it's happening going over ramps then it's the axle moving over to the right and smacking the tyre into the arch. You need smaller spacers or none at all. And are those 185 tyres on standard steels?


"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[nissan boy]

It will be hitting the arch or the rear bumper mount just in the arch
Mine has kissed the mount twice in over a year both been full loaded hitting bumps

I'm running 185/60/14s with sttl alloys (not far off stock offset) but not flush with the arches, basicly cause they would rub and I'm on stock suspension and those tyres are fairly large
Possible pic may help?

 

[plmval]

Many thanks lads, LiamC, 1275 , nissan boy, for an outbreak of uncommon common sense support on the MSC to an unintended DIY created serious safety hazard of using/running oversize 185 tyres/wheels/spacers in a potentially dangerous combination that has resulted in part shredded rear tyres.

This dangerous situation should be immediately rectified by a competent person before that vehicle is driven on the road again.

 

[plmval]

Hi,

I like having the wheels looking level with the wheel arches at the rear. I have no subs and rarely have more than half a tank of fuel. I'm going to drive without spacers for the next few days to see if that sorts it., and also check for the tire sitting properly/twists etc.

Thanks mate.

Many thanks lads, LiamC, 1275 , nissan boy, for an outbreak of uncommon common sense support on the MSC to an unintended DIY created serious safety hazard of using/running oversize 185 tyres/wheels/spacers in a potentially dangerous combination that has resulted in part shredded rear tyres.

This dangerous situation should be immediately rectified by a competent person before that vehicle is driven on the road again.

Make your own good luck.

 

[LiamC]

Many thanks lads, LiamC, 1275 , nissan boy, for an outbreak of uncommon common sense support on the MSC to an unintended DIY created serious safety hazard of using/running oversize 185 tyres/wheels/spacers in a potentially dangerous combination that has resulted in part shredded rear tyres.

This dangerous situation should be immediately rectified by a competent person before that vehicle is driven on the road again.

Make your own good luck.

Common sense is anything but common isn't it. But still, this is an easy mistake to make if you don't think about it, and lord knows we all make them

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[LiamC]

As for spacers, you can't have wheels sitting flush with the arches. That not how it's designed.

(Picture of an old jag on the grand tour I'm watching as we speak for reference)
If you are adamant on having spacers, jack up the car, and with it well supported up in the air jack up the rear axle so you can see how it starts moving over to one side. And then check how much is the absolute maximum space on the right side and go a few sizes smaller. I would be thinking 10mm spacers would be safer and would actually work.


As for tyres, I have 165 on my 5.5 inch wheels and 175 on my 6 inch alloys. So 185 on standard 5 inch steels is probably verging on unsafe as that's way beyond what the tyre is designed for fitting. In fact I remember you making a post about asking for tyre sizes and I said that they were too big and you obviously didn't listen

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

EDIT

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

EDIT

 

[1275]

Yep rolling the edge of the arch to flatten the lip is the next step required, visit any VW forum and you'll see how its done, seems rather popular in VW circles, stance, air-ride and all that. ...

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Yep rolling the edge of the arch to flatten the lip is the next step required, visit any VW forum and you'll see how its done, seems rather popular in VW circles, stance, air-ride and all that. ...

Hi,

Thanks very much for people's advice. However, I would like to say that some people should please understand that others may not be as competent and knowledgeable in aspects that you may be. What is one persons 'common sense' in a certain topic is most definitely not someone else's common sense. But I still want to thank everyone for their advice.

It turns out the whole problem was caused by a worn/damaged shock absorber. I got the shock absorber replaced and have absolutely no problem anymore, although the tyre will need replacing as it probably won't pass MOT.

For the people saying the rims are too thin for 185 tyres, it seems the internet is telling me that 185 is okay and very suitable for 6J rims. (Also kind of makes sense, 165 for 5J rims, 175 for 5.5J rims and 185 for 6J rims). I have very similar rolling radius so the speedometer is only 1% out.

The rear suspension is not worn either as my mechanic also checked this along with replacing the shock absorber.

As for me wanting to get the wheels in line with the arches, it was more of an exaggeration as the wheels are still not in line with the arch. What I should have said is that I would like the wheels to be more in line with the arches rather than really tucked in, as they are on standard Micras.

Thanks.

 

[LiamC]

Hi,

Thanks very much for people's advice. However, I would like to say that some people should please understand that others may not be as competent and knowledgeable in aspects that you may be. What is one persons 'common sense' in a certain topic is most definitely not someone else's common sense. But I still want to thank everyone for their advice.

It turns out the whole problem was caused by a worn/damaged shock absorber. I got the shock absorber replaced and have absolutely no problem anymore, although the tyre will need replacing as it probably won't pass MOT.

For the people saying the rims are too thin for 185 tyres, it seems the internet is telling me that 185 is okay and very suitable for 6J rims. (Also kind of makes sense, 165 for 5J rims, 175 for 5.5J rims and 185 for 6J rims). I have very similar rolling radius so the speedometer is only 1% out.

The rear suspension is not worn either as my mechanic also checked this along with replacing the shock absorber.

As for me wanting to get the wheels in line with the arches, it was more of an exaggeration as the wheels are still not in line with the arch. What I should have said is that I would like the wheels to be more in line with the arches rather than really tucked in, as they are on standard Micras.

Thanks.

I was on about common sense of people in general to do with everything to be honest, not just here. I was merely stating that people don't always think things through before doing stuff, for example just earlier someone flung open their car door in front of me and I had to give my brakes a massive workout. Wasn't meant to be aimed at you.
I do appreciate we all have to start somewhere, before I got my car I'd never even changed a spark plug (mainly because I'd only worked on diesels though.)

The shock absorber being worn out was just exaggerating the problem, being that the rear axle on these cars does swing over to the right hand side when the suspension is compressed. And you did get both shocks replaced together didn't you?

Those tyres are too wide for that wheel. If you convert the 5 inch wheel to metric, it's 127mm. So a 185 tyre is pretty much 60mm wider than between the beads. Usually it's meant to be around 30-40. Might as well go to good quality 165s or something since you have to get those tyres replaced anyway.

Those spacers are way too big imo, I do remember seeing that the rear track is narrower than the front but I don't think it's more than 20mm total or something.

Just keep in mind how much the suspension moves side to side when going up and down to save time, money and hassle for the future. I would get narrower better quality tyres, smaller spacers and roll arches if I was you

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Hi,

Oh okay I understand, thanks.
And you might have mistaken me, my rear wheels are 6 inch wide, not 5 inch. They aren't Nissan steel wheels. I remember in your earlier post on another thread, you'd told me that 185 was too wide for 5 inch steel wheels, hence I now have 6 inch wide steel wheels. I guess its best for me to get the old 165 tyres I have and the old 5 inch wheels. And remove my ridiculously large spacers. Standard seems to be the best way lol.

I got the rear shock absorbers and springs replaced, as one of the springs was damaged as well.

 

[LiamC]

Hi,

Oh okay I understand, thanks.
And you might have mistaken me, my rear wheels are 6 inch wide, not 5 inch. They aren't Nissan steel wheels. I remember in your earlier post on another thread, you'd told me that 185 was too wide for 5 inch steel wheels, hence I now have 6 inch wide steel wheels. I guess its best for me to get the old 165 tyres I have and the old 5 inch wheels. And remove my ridiculously large spacers. Standard seems to be the best way lol.

I got the rear shock absorbers and springs replaced, as one of the springs was damaged as well.

185 are perfect for 6 inch wheels then, depending on offset and all that yada yada. It should be fine, my 6inch with et of 35 are happy out. 6 inch isn't wide really, it's just the spacers that's pushing them out.

I looked it up in the Haynes book of wonders, front track is 1360mm, rear is 1325. So 35mm difference, meaning you could manage 15mm spacers and have the stock rear wheels sitting basically the same as the stock fronts would, presuming the body isn't any more flared out or whatever. If that makes sense.

Always good to get everything replaced both sides if one has to be done

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12

 

[Ihtisham Rauf]

Perfect! At least I can keep the wheels then, think the offset was 38, and nice to know the track length differences. Time to find some 15mm spacers/run it without spacers.

 

[LiamC]

Wheels will be fine on their own. Try the without any spacers first, and do the thing where you jack the suspension up against the body as much as possible so you know how much the axle moves over

"It just looks like a scrotum" - Jeremy Clarkson on the K12