• Please only use these forums for blogs, they are not a discussion forum

PollyMobiles Rebuild

OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just got some pics from me m8 of the handling track. put em into gifs

initial run when i stalled reversing



and next run at last hairpin noting how much the rear picks up



lift during fast turn in



big lift when turning and heavy braking. think it needs stiffer front coils or stiffer front swaybar

 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
The rear inside wheel lift is not a bad thing. It means more weight and grip on the outside wheel. The inside rear wheel isnt doing anthing in a corner ;) By fiting a stiffer front ARB you will get more lift on the inside front wheel wich means less weight on it and less grip and you will struggle to put down power on the exit!

http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/45452-Making-a-FWD-car-handle-well!?p=469562#post469562
most likely to be stiffer front springs cos whiteline don't do any stiffer front ARB. tractionwise the LSD will help with the corner exit.
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
theres a trackday at teesside autodrome in boro on august for £99
(Y)

Theres also some chatter on JNE about a possible go at croft, somewhere around £130 iirc (the iirc goes for both price and location lol)...seriously considering counting the pennies and see what i can come up with :D
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
(Y)

Theres also some chatter on JNE about a possible go at croft, somewhere around £130 iirc (the iirc goes for both price and location lol)...seriously considering counting the pennies and see what i can come up with :D
I wanna goto oulton park then roadtrip in july then over to nurburgring in aug. Gonna be skint
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Ah bum. This morning drove out garage n thought are the brakes binding cos she didnt wanna move easily. Then noticed that my rear right is punctured flat once again, prob same tyre. A screw punched through but is within tread.

DSC04954.JPG


Was gonna use the tyreweld goo but thought naa that'll make a right mess inside. So i screwed the stud all the way in to stop the leak n pumped the tyre n went to work.

Got it repaired down national tyres. Waited ages for till guy to slowly serve 2 ppl then mechanic who did tyre said just go m8. Oh cheers:grinning:
 
Last edited:

Low Rider

Poindexter
Founding Member
Moderator
Club Member
most likely to be stiffer front springs cos whiteline don't do any stiffer front ARB. tractionwise the LSD will help with the corner exit.
The tried and tested rates for the K11 with coilovers is to run a 6kg front spring and a 4kg on the rears for the track, some go softer on the rear but I guess it's down to preference. I will be going back to a stock front ARB, I'm sick of the Whiteline one clipping the chassis, some do it and some don't it seems......car's as straight as an arrow, so perhaps I was blessed with a dodgy front bar.....who knows!
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
thx low rider, will keep in mind.
just phoned me m8 and the plans hav changed. still doin my uk roadtrip at end of july but mostly on me own cos me m8s dont have any holidays left and can only do weekends. and with me other m8, nurburgring will have to wait till next year cos his son's still working his civic so wont be ready but we will goto castle combe in august instead plus i'm thinking of doin the local teesside autodrome track in july so it'll give the car a good shakedown to see if the cars really up for it n fine tuned before the big trip to germany.
i'll see how the current springs do on the track before buying harder front springs.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
(Y)

Theres also some chatter on JNE about a possible go at croft, somewhere around £130 iirc (the iirc goes for both price and location lol)...seriously considering counting the pennies and see what i can come up with :D
i just booked a track session at teesside autodrome on 15th july
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
replaced the rear right caliper piston tday. the circlip holding the self adjuster screw in the rear left piston popped loose so i sorted it and now both rear brakes are spinning freely.

DSC04986.JPG


the washer motor was squeeling noisy so got new one from scrappy for £5

DSC04985.JPG


this is how i took the old one apart incase ya wanna service it. the valve head can be seperated like this

DSC04987.JPG


inside is a sorta 1-way valve

DSC04989.JPG


the motor casing is snap shut together so i had to cut off the ridge

DSC04990.JPG


motor contacts

DSC04991.JPG


the motor should slip out, mine was so badly corroded in place

DSC04992.JPG


assembly

DSC04995.JPG


rubber seal

DSC04996.JPG


impeller

DSC04997.JPG


casing

DSC04998.JPG
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
took out the front left piston to see why its binding. twas resisting alot. looks like the surface has some dried deposits so a good rub with 1200grit & wd40 smoothed it off. reassembly was smoother and now it no longer binds. do the right side nxt week. this should all help improve economy.

DSC05001.JPG


steering still drifts to the left but only above 20mph and very dependant on road camber.
adjusting the rear axle just affects where the steering wheel self centres and it still drifts abit left
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
me 200kg scales have come

DSC05002.JPG
DSC05003.JPG
DSC05004.JPG
DSC05005.JPG


one of them had a 1/2 duff lcd and was gonna ring em for a replacement but figured out it was cos the glue that held the display assembly to the toughened glass had loosened so i pushed it back together and tis sorted

DSC05006.JPG


tested it under a wheel and oh buggaaa it goes beyond 200kg especially the heavy front. dammmit:doh:
well there goes another wasted £70
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok all is not lost.
i figure i'll just group 2 scales with a wooden beam to share half the load, tested on one corner and each scale crept upto but within 190kg so its just about usable

DSC05007.JPG


a very unscientific quick test shows:
front left: 328kg front right: 378kg
rear left: 289kg rear right: 264kg

huh the car weighs 1.25tons?
oh hang on, i didn't disconnect the swaybar Plus the cars propped at angle with all that weight on the measured wheel so that result is inaccurate but least i know i can measure it now :)

hmm so the front left & rear right corners are under-loaded, no wonder the RR wheel popped up so high during the japshow handling test and that the front left wheel always scrubs the arch at the round abouts
 

Daniel

I WILL be back...
Well that's certainly a different way of weighing your car :laugh:. I normally just go to my local scrapyard and weigh it there (Y)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Well that's certainly a different way of weighing your car :laugh:. I normally just go to my local scrapyard and weigh it there (Y)
i needed a more specific measure of each wheel in order to proper balance the susp and cheaply too cos i def aint spendin over £800 on those specialised weigh kits. diy and improvise is the way to go(Y)
 

frank

Club Member
you might be better to spring assist the scales paul, for example 4 small springs under the rear scales and 6 under the front ones :)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you might be better to spring assist the scales paul, for example 4 small springs under the rear scales and 6 under the front ones :)
Ya mean put a spring between the toughened glass plate and the floor via the middle exposed gap? Would it not give a false lower reading? Or is it more about getting the two crossweight ratios evenly balanced with the rough values.

Dont have any coilsprings laying about but i'm sure that once i take the proper readings with the car level, swaybar off, 1/4 tank rather than full, rear seats out and 75kg weight in driver seat the readings would be lower.
 

frank

Club Member
Ya mean put a spring between the toughened glass plate and the floor via the middle exposed gap? Would it not give a false lower reading? Or is it more about getting the two crossweight ratios evenly balanced with the rough values.

Dont have any coilsprings laying about but i'm sure that once i take the proper readings with the car level, swaybar off, 1/4 tank rather than full, rear seats out and 75kg weight in driver seat the readings would be lower.
yeh, or under the corners of a piece of ply paul, like big valvesprings that will share some of the weight, so that the scales dont register till you have (for instance) 100kg load
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i'll see how it does when i measure it properly and add a spring if needed.

when adjusting the coilovers after measuring, do i tweak the upper preload ring, adjust the lower ride height ring till the height's same as before then re-weigh the corners. rinse n repeat?
 
i can see your plan but however for this to work accurate all the four wheels need to be weight at the same time due to the vehicle leaning etc! so maybe franks idea of preloaded springs on each scale will work but it will possibly require fine maths and measurements to make this accurate
 

frank

Club Member
i'll see how it does when i measure it properly and add a spring if needed.

when adjusting the coilovers after measuring, do i tweak the upper preload ring, adjust the lower ride height ring till the height's same as before then re-weigh the corners. rinse n repeat?
you want all the preloads the same and move the insert up or down paul surely ?
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i can see your plan but however for this to work accurate all the four wheels need to be weight at the same time due to the vehicle leaning etc! so maybe franks idea of preloaded springs on each scale will work but it will possibly require fine maths and measurements to make this accurate
i will be placing the scales on both wheels at one end while the other end is lifted up onto thick wood blocks the same height to keep the wheels flat n level with each other. record the measurements, swap ends then record the other end.
i tweak the susp then measure both ends again.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you want all the preloads the same and move the insert up or down paul surely ?
if i just alter the lower ring to affect the corner load till they're all even, the ride heights between each wheel could be all over the place cos each corner of the car weighes differently.
i believe adjusting the preload affects where the damper piston rests in the damper body and where the damper casing sits relative to the strut top.
adjusting the lower ring affects where the wheel/hub sits relative to the damper casing.
both parameter collectively affects the corner load and resultant ride height but i think my goal is to adjust both the preload and lower ring till the damper piston sits in the middle of its stroke so it doesn't bottom/top out (by measuring damper body to strut top distance) and all ride heights are the same and the load between both sides of either end are equal.

i have a feeling it'll take awhile to fine balance it all with alota hair pulling :p
a forcast of heavy rain over weekend doesn't help
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok tday i tested placing one end on the scales and the other end lifted on planks. not levelled yet btw.

DSC05008.JPG
DSC05009.JPG
DSC05010.JPG
DSC05011.JPG


the results are better.
front left: 252kg front right: 286kg
rear left: 177kg rear right: 167kg
total: 882kg

next task is to adjust the height of each platform so all the wheels rest level n flat. i saw this neat trick on youtube for levelling a floor before corner weighin.
stick a long clear tube into an elevated bucket of water in the middle, suck water through it till there's no air gaps

DSC05012.JPG


stick the other end onto a pole and the water level will match the level in the bucket. place the pole on each platform and find the one with the highest point, indicated by the lowest water level reading. mark it with a pen and that becomes my reference point to lift the other platforms up to. make sure the water doesn't run too far out the end or it'll ruin the setting.

DSC05013.JPG


i stack wood over each platform till they're all level. swap the scales front to back n repeat levelling process. now i have a level platform setup

DSC05014.JPG


now i have to use up my fuel till it goes 1/4 before i can start corner balancing.
to represent my body weight in the drivers seat while setting up, i'm gonna place four 20kg bags of rice
 
Last edited:

frank

Club Member
ahh nice one paul (Y) it wont matter if your pitch and roll axis are,nt true eh, as long as your diagonal plane is flat (we do the same sort of measurement when jigging our kart chassis)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok after abit of research i figured this is how i'll setup the coilovers.

remove the springs, push the damper up (blue) till it touches the bumpstop (yellow) and adjust the hubs position relative to the damper body by screwing the damper body up/down the hub/axle mount (red) till the tyre is like 5mm from touching the arch. this is cos when the wheel is this close to the arch i want it stop moving any closer (hence bump-stop)

1- set bumpstop.JPG


I fit the springs and adjust the spring preload cup (green) till i reach the preferred static resting ride height all round

2- set ride height preload.JPG


i weigh the corners. if they're uneven i position some ballast at the lightest corner, adjust the spring preload cup till all ride heights the same and re-weigh the corners.
i do this till i have even crossweight with even ride heights

during testing/trackdays i put a ziptie on the damper shaft to gauge how much the wheel moves from the static ride height i set. if it shows i'm hitting the bumpstops, i either have to increase the preload & ride height to give the wheel more room to move or i fit a stiffer spring to reduce the amount of travel for a given bump load.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i think the order of sequence will be

1. match tyre patch area: adjust tyre pressures till all the tyre patches are equal to provide the same wheel centre to floor distance
2. setup bump stop point
3. adjust preload to required ride height
4. balance corner weight adjusting ballast & spring preload while maintaining ride height
5. set front camber
6. wheel alignment
7. re-check tyre patch areas. adjust pressures then repeat step 4 if needed
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
afew parameter limits i just figured out are:

the maximum height of the front preload ring is where the spring would just bind when the damper hits the bumpstop. distance from the upper spring cup to the preload ring is calculated by adding the thickness of the coils along the spring length

3- front preload max height.jpg


the maximum height of the rear preload ring is where the spring would just bind when the damper hits the bumpstop at its highest position on the axle. distance from the upper spring cup to the preload ring when the damper is touching the bumpstop at its highest position is calculated by adding the thickness of the coils along the spring length

4- rear preload max height.JPG


both the rear damper and preload ring should be set the same distance from their highest point during adjustment

5- rear damper & preload height.JPG
 
Last edited:

frank

Club Member
you wanna hit the bumpstop long before coilbind surely paul ? :eek: (else you may as well have no bumpstop)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
yea maybe set the preload ring like 10mm lower than the damper to allow for bumpstop squish.
not too far below the damper or else the spring would to be too loose when the damper's fully extended and you'll hit the bumpstop prematurely. set preload too far above the damper would, as you say, crash and bind the springs and the damper could top-out when the wheel falls down a pothole or ditch or i corner & brake heavily, maybe damaging the piston.
 

frank

Club Member
i doubt if you will damage the piston paul, coilies usually develop a leak or break a spring going by what i,ve read on aoc.
and the preload setting will depend on the weight on that corner i would have thought (so that it settles/sinks the same amount on all 4 when you lower it off the jack)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
yea the ride height is when the preload equals the weight load on that corner from the car chassis, hence to maintain the same ride height with equal corner tyre loading i'm balancing the car body weight distribution with ballast then adjust preload till the height & corner tyre load are equal yet still allowing the bumpstop to prevent the tyres from hitting the arch during heavy loading.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
actually the way i'm gonna adjust the front coilovers (while maintaining bumpstop function) is no different to a partially threaded sleeved coilover. only difference is i can set where the wheel stops when it reaches the bumpstop.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just googling into ballast, looks like lead or tungsten are abit expensive n hazardous n hard to work but i read bout someone using rice stuffed into any nook n cranny. now i was originally gonna pickup 4 20kg bags of rice tomorrow to represent my 75kg weight in drivers seat so maybe i could use some in the boot corner as ballast during corner weighing (Y)
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
gargh just spent the whole weekend trying to balance the suspension and its a friggin frustrating minefield grr sorted tyre pressure & bumpstop travel but when it comes to trying to balance the loads left to right its all over the place. keeping all ride height equal dont work cos its essentially RH and front heavy giving unbalanced loads

i try to adjust the cross weight and i can only get one of the ends matching. at the moment the corner weight & ride height is:
front left: 275kg @ 114mm front right: 295 @ 103mm
rear left: 166kg @ 104mm rear right:211kg @ 100mm

i'm outa time and frankly outa patience n energy. long story, don't have enough energy to explain yet.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
K promising news. According to my first initial tests when both sides had the same preload setting my calc says that if i put 30kg ballast at FL and 10kg in RL it would balance out the weight distribution and level all ride heights. I went to buy five 7.5kg cast iron dumbell plates from tesco for £60, placed it accordingly where i could stuff it, set preloads the same on both sides from my calcs and so far the ride heights all similar and the RL & RR loads are 190 & 197kg so far so good. Now lets measure the fronts
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
here's what happened

to measure the tyre tread area i need a flat level platform so i stacked layers of marble tiles

DSC05015.JPG


so the cars sitting flat

DSC05016.JPG


placed 80kg of rice to simulate my weight

DSC05017.JPG


slip two thin pieces of cardboard under the tyre to measure the length & width of the patch from 1-3bars then calc the area and looks like this

pressure vs tyre patch.jpg


i set the fronts to 2.8bars and rears to 1.2bar so they all have roughly the same patch and same distance from wheel centre to floor

tire place puncture repair

DSC05018.JPG


coilover covers kept most of the major muck away. just a dusting of fine dirt left behind

DSC05019.JPG


removed rear springs so i could push the axle up till i hit the bumpstop

DSC05020.JPG


the rear damper has standard rear bumpstop fitted. its 62mm long, the damper has a travel of 110mm so only leaves 68mm of travel.
when hitting the bumpstop the wheel barely reaches the arch, the rim is only 80mm from the arch lip. this may explain why the rear end feels so punchy when going over speedbumps cos the rear hits the stock bumpstop prematurely.

DSC05021.JPG


rear swaybar misses the fueltank

DSC05022.JPG


the issue at the rear axle is not the wheels touching the archs but the exhaust striking the right swaybar mount bracket

DSC05024.JPG


the stock bumpstop takes up like half the damper stroke so i fitted the original coilover bumpstop which is 35mm so giving 95mm of travel

DSC05025.JPG


dust boot tied down so it doesn't pop off n let dirt through

DSC05026.JPG


wheel stops much higher at 67mm from the arch but found the axle already hits the exhaust when its 80mm away so i had to increase the damper height from the axle by 16mm to stop the wheel at that point.

DSC05027.JPG


the rear spring is 204mm long and calculated its binding length is at 73mm.
with standard bumpstops and damper at its lowest height, the preload ring is only 90mm from its highest setting to the spring top support.
with coilover bumpstops its still only 78mm away so no chance of complete spring binding.

now to set the front bumpstop point by adjusting the lower ring. take springs out n jack the wheel up.

DSC05030.JPG


the current setting allows the wheel to get this close

DSC05028.JPG


but its mainly when turning and braking hard that the wheels move this far so i turn the steering and it rubs the arch so no wonder it used to make a racket during hard right turns

DSC05029.JPG


to test what camber does i set it all the way

DSC05031.JPG


and it pulls the top of wheel in

DSC05033.JPG


enough to just clear the arch. this strut top camber adjustment maybe good for clearing the arch when really lowering but handling wise, i dunno if it actually affects the camber where you need it most in terms of handling i.e when the wheel steers, compared to increasing the castor.

DSC05034.JPG


lowered the bottom ring till the gap is better

DSC05035.JPG


the front spring is 220mm long and binding length is at 80mm.

front damper has a travel of 118mm.

when hitting the bumpstop, the wheel rim is 60mm from the arch and the preload rings max height setting before spring binding is 68mm from the top of the damper casing.

with damper fully extended, the spring is at zero preload when the ring is bout 100mm from the damper casing top.

DSC05036.JPG


now to corner balance.

first i set the preloads like before and equal both sides.
(preload measured from top of damper casing, height from wheel rim to arch)
RL: preload 55mm, height 97mm
RR: preload 55mm, height 101mm
FL: preload 90mm, height 100mm
FR: preload 90mm, height 109mm

i lower the preloads to get a level ride height and weighed the front
(preload, height, weight)
RL: 47mm, 100mm
RR: 49mm, 101mm
FL: 107mm, 100mm, 254kg
FR: 95mm, 100mm, 303kg

50kg difference between the front wheels. was gonna fit ballast but don't have any so had to sacrifice uneven ride height in order to load the corners.
I stiffen the FL preload 5mm several times to increase load
RL: 47mm, 105mm
RR: 49mm, 98mm
FL: 101mm, 101mm, 258kg
FR: 95mm, 98mm, 306kg

RL: 47mm, 105mm
RR: 49mm, 96mm
FL: 95mm, 107mm, 261kg
FR: 95mm, 101mm, 306kg

RR height is getting lower so i stiffen it 10mm to raise it up and transfer load over to the FL

RL: 47mm, 110mm
RR: 39mm, 102mm
FL: 101mm, 108mm, 269kg
FR: 95mm, 102mm, 300kg

stiffen FL some more

RL: 47mm, 110mm
RR: 39mm, 101mm
FL: 90mm, 113mm, 271kg
FR: 95mm, 107mm, 301kg

soften the RL to try transfer load away from the FR to the others then weigh all the wheels to see the whole picture

RL: 57mm, 104mm, 166kg
RR: 39mm, 100mm, 211kg
FL: 90mm, 114mm, 268kg
FR: 95mm, 103mm, 295kg

car was definately RH heavy. i tested putting 10kg bag at the RL

RL: 57mm, 101mm, 172kg
RR: 39mm, 98mm, 215kg
FL: 90mm, 113mm, est 272kg
FR: 95mm, 102mm, est 299kg

minimal effect. seems like in this unbalances chassis i could only balance either the front or real axle so would handle left/right turns differently

looking back i figured i could stick the preloads back to their equal values and sort out the varying ride heights & corner loads with ballast to push down on each corner. so i brought five 7.5kg dumbell plates from tesco for £60

DSC05038.JPG


7.5kg in RL

DSC05039.JPG


22.5kg to be bolted to passenger floor

DSC05040.JPG


and just bout stuff one in FL engine bay

DSC05041.JPG


set all preloads equal. wanted to measure from top of damper but spring is in the way so i use a thin screwdriver to represent the level for the tape measure

DSC05042.JPG


results from adding 30kg in FL and 7.5kg in RL
RL: 45mm, 100mm, 190kg
RR: 45mm, 105mm, 197kg
FL: 98mm, 98mm, 277kg
FR: 98mm, 98mm, 314kg

looks good. ride heights and rear balance pretty much equal, front needs more work.
try increasing FL ride height to load up the FL and RR wheels
RL: 45mm, 107mm, 187kg
RR: 45mm, 97mm, 200kg
FL: 98mm, 102mm, 278kg
FR: 98mm, 97mm, 311kg

abit uneven so i lowered the FL back down and move the RL ballast with the others in the FL footwell
RL: 45mm, 103mm, 189kg
RR: 45mm, 100mm, 200kg
FL: 98mm, 97mm, 279kg
FR: 98mm, 94mm, 318kg

think thats as near as i'll go. just need to bolt down the weights n refit everything

found a lil trick if the cars moved to one side too far after using jack in tight garage. slip a rice bag or equivalent under the wheels and a good shuv moves it with ease

DSC05043.JPG
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i know, took all that interior and boot weight out, shifted a lighter battery backwards and then added turbo stuff only to find out its all made it front right heavy and have to put all the weight back where it was. weighes almost a ton now with me inside.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
one thing just sprung to mind is bout mot emissions thats coming in sept. has anyone whose converted to turbo with the 2nd cat passed their emission?
when i hold it at 3k in neutral (and also when i lift the throttle to decelerate but not enough to trigger tps closed and cut the injectors) the wideband goes 10afr and just concerned it's too rich n gives a bad reading. under load the afr's fine.
 
Top