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PollyMobiles Rebuild

r-reg-sr

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good work p mate

seems a shame you have to add weight to the car to make it sit perfect.
Top job though! (Y)
sports vehicles come balanced from factory , non sports cars dont
and sports cars dont have engines in the front ,its mid engined or rear engine . for balance reasons
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
one thing just sprung to mind is bout mot emissions thats coming in sept. has anyone whose converted to turbo with the 2nd cat passed their emission?
when i hold it at 3k in neutral (and also when i lift the throttle to decelerate but not enough to trigger tps closed and cut the injectors) the wideband goes 10afr and just concerned it's too rich n gives a bad reading. under load the afr's fine.
You'll have to try and cut it back. 10's aint gonna do it :)

Not sure what extra changes you'd need to do vs what you can change with your ecu setup...but the stock ecu with a lambda signal feed does do an extreme job of pulling it back in line.

A thought, how heavy are the front seats? as could you not loose some of the new ballast by bolting the front seat back in?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
You'll have to try and cut it back. 10's aint gonna do it :)

Not sure what extra changes you'd need to do vs what you can change with your ecu setup...but the stock ecu with a lambda signal feed does do an extreme job of pulling it back in line.

A thought, how heavy are the front seats? as could you not loose some of the new ballast by bolting the front seat back in?
k will need to tweak around nistune summore to find whats goin on

all the seats are in. seems its the turbo, pas pump, driver, lighter battery and backbox thats concentrating most the weight to the right.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

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when its under load (region of fuel map where just enough fuel is supplied to maintain that rev) the afr all normal. the o2 feedback markers are switched on in the low load area of fuel map but i think its when the load falls below that steady region (high rev/low load region of the map) that it overfuels hence running rich during partial deceleration and free revving.
 

frank

Club Member
when its under load the afr all normal. the o2 feedback markers are switched on in the low load area of fuel map but i think its in the higher rev/low load region of the map thats overfueling hence running rich during deceleration and free revving.
if its not closed looping at cruise paul, then you,ve got no chance imo :eek:
 

Low Rider

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Closed loop will only do it's job if the base fuelling is close to where it should be, otherwise it's asking a bit much but you never know ;) This is especially the case if you have an old long in the tooth standard mid cat, mine was junked a few years back for want of a 200cpi race cat.

We've passed 2 years in a row with no lambda feedback and NO rpm cheating either, (we actually pass the more stringent emissions regs). Admittedly but quite a lot of fiddling is needed to get that to work with TPS load, as atmospherics can be a pain on the day. Closed loop will make things much easier but I have yet to get Ed to set it up :eek:
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Funnily enough Low Rider i was testing closed loop the other day on boost to see what how bad it would alter the map, and where on wide open throttle it'd usually be around 11.5. After about 10 mins of driving the ecu had learnt enough from the lambda signal that WOT resulted in 16's (as it tried to jump to 14 odds)...I backed out shortly afterwards as the car made some horrible noises / kangarooing. Car felt like i'd pulled the handbrake on. (I'd say good odds this is whats killed boosted micras in the past.)

Im about to adjust the wiring on mine, so i can run the lambda at cruise only, switching it at boost. Fingers crossed it'll work and i'll get the best of both worlds. :D

This of course is a piggybacked emanage blue on mine.
 

Low Rider

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Hehe, that's quite interesting...seems as though you leaned out to the point of missfire, which would mean pretty darn lean ;) I don't personally like emanage blue, it did work but we found the fuelling control to be a bit of a pain by the inbuilt fuelling enrichment from the k11 ecu, (map for 5th and all other gears are progressively rich, map for say 3rd and 1st and 2nd run a little rich but 4th and 5th lean out up top etc). How are you finding that?

We're running on an Omex, so it's a different kettle of fish really, the car is very close to stoich on tickover with no feedback, we did however manage the same thing with Nistune before we upgraded. The only thing we need to double check on the day is the vacuum balance across the cylinders to make sure they are all level. 45mm bodies only need to be a hair and it's all mesed up. The throttle linkage setup is notorious for allowing one to go off slightly and mess things up, a double pain when most K11 manifolds only read from 2 cylinders!......another thing which will be changed on the next build up.
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Haha yeah hopefully i havent done it any harm.

Running without the lambda connected, its been spot on really...certainly an option if you like tinkering lol.

A blank map and using the EMB injector compensator for the larger injectors, at idle its lean, hovering around 15's / 16's (and iirc mostly across the rpm range the AFR's vary - tested only NA) so at the moment the piggyback is being mapped accross the whole rpm range / table, which goes against how you're supposed to use a piggyback ecu lol. As the stock ecu should normally be ok, until you needed the extra fuel upto or on boost (if that makes sense).

Im mapping in 3rd btw, and 4th, 5th are pretty much spot on stoich if anything they go towards rich. Depends alot on throttle position (oddly thats the opposite you've experienced, which is strange).

Im hoping i can just kill the lambda signal on the fly and it'll revert to default map / open immediately (fingers crossed it'll just think theres a fault, and not try to learn the fueling needs for the boost areas) should have it setup tomorrow for testing so will know then.

But worst case it'll go back to lambda less, and you don't know if you don't try :)

I also wouldn't mind wiring in something to keep the SC on during gear shifts, something like a 1 or 2 second delay before it turns off, got an idea just haven't built it yet.
 

frank

Club Member
its not the fact of what gear its in tho eh, there,s no gearbox input (bar neutral) its the rate of acceleration that determines the fuel enrichment surely ?
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
True, I map in 3rd cos i can go from 20mph and upto 70mph + (not that i go above 70 of course).

Its basically if its 4.00 volts at 2500 rpm then whatever the number in the table thats how much to add regardless of gear.

But in 5th / 3rd (just cos thats when i look at the gauge ;)) from my experience at cruise / slow driving / off boost it normally hovers around 3.00v or less (i've occasionally jumped into the 3.20v column) 3.20v and up is my boost range.

Volts in question are MAF readings, and columns emanage blue table layout btw.

I understand it more than i can explain it, so hopefully that makes sense lol.
 

Low Rider

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its not the fact of what gear its in tho eh, there,s no gearbox input (bar neutral) its the rate of acceleration that determines the fuel enrichment surely ?
Yup :)

3rd seems worryingly long when you find yourself shifting up just below 100 :eek:

All this suspension stuff is cool reading, I shall keep checking back for when I get some of those #### factor coilovers ;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

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i overhauled all the ARB bushes so they move smoothly now rather than binding and preloading the wheels.

was looking at how the weights would be anchored onto the floor. looking underneath the passenger floor there's the brake/fuel lines nearby and the front of the footwell where it begins to slope up is an enclosed hollow section of the chassis so wouldn't be able to get nut n bolt access through there. only room for using nut n bolt was the thin horizontal floor section to the left of the chassis beam where the passenger left foot would be.
i wanted to try concentrate the weight towards the FL wheel so thought what if i just stack em in the front left corner of the flat floor like this

DSC05045.JPG


reweighed to check difference and got:
RL: preload 45mm, height 101mm, 182kg
RR: preload 45mm, height 101mm, 196kg
FL: preload 98mm, height 95mm, 283kg
FR: preload 98mm, height 95mm, 312kg
total weight: 973kg

alot better to my preference.
FL/RR cross weight 49.23%
FR/RL cross weight 50.77%
left/right weight bias 47.79%/52.21%
front/rear weight bias 61.15%/38.85%

tomorrow just need to recheck tyre patch area, align front camber, align steering and bolt down all the weights
 
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solarice

Ex. Club Member
I've always wondered the difference on balance, so you're doing a good job there pollyp ;) Be interesting how you find it to drive once you've finished.
 

frank

Club Member
i think you need to setup the coilies on a trackday personally paul (logging cornerspeeds and laptimes) it just does,nt seem right to be adding weight in the quest for performance gains fwn.
my ghetto setup is very neutral balanced, i spun out at donny because i entered the corner too hot, and if i enter slower then power out it understeers a bit (so when/if i do get the corner right it 4 wheel drifts very slightly all the way round, with minimal lock on the wheel)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i can only think of using ballast to counteract all the heavy stuff on the right of the car compared to urs so that the suspension would behave consistantly left to right. removing enough weight from the right side doesn't seem feasable or easy.
but then i haven't taken the new coilovers onto a track to find out yet till fri and it looks like its gonna be a damp one, damn.

i'll put some zipties on the damper shafts to check their max travel after each session.

what hot tyre pressures you run. wonder if i should set them all to have equal tread area front & rear or set them relative to their static loads i.e front tread area 60% larger than rear due to the forward weight distribution.
 

frank

Club Member
the zipties is a good idea paul (Y) and i painted my tyrewalls with gloss black before donny and you can see the "roll-under/scrub" was very minimal (no paint scuffed from the tyrewall, heres the n/s/f one)

 

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pollyp

pollyp

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stock pressure? thats good wear

on my toyos half of the white letters i painted would wear off on the loaded side during trackdays though i believe my error was that i used to lower the tyres down from my daily 2.85/2.85bars to stock 2.2/1.9bars which i now think was too low.
 

frank

Club Member
stock pressure? thats good wear

on my toyos half of the white letters i painted would wear off on the loaded side during trackdays though i believe my error was that i used to lower the tyres down from my daily 2.85/2.85bars to stock 2.2/1.9bars which i now think was too low.
i set them with our big kart gauge at work paul, 35 front and 30 rear (165/60/14) but i have probably about 3 deg of camber too tho eh

 

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Low Rider

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Toyo's are renound for having a soft sidewall and they need more pressure on a track day to help compensate. From plenty of forum combing over the years most people end up opting for a different tyre on track as a result.

Mine are shortly to be binned, 6years old, many heat cycles and the road noise is unbearable!

I'd love to downgrade to stock brakes and shove a set of steelies on with stock 175/60 rubbers on for a laugh just to see the difference.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
urh so exhausted workin all night on the car.
i remeasured the tyre patch area from 1-3bars for each wheel (such tedious job pumping 400times to get from 1-3bar after each test) and set the pressures to FL 2.2bar FR 2.4bar RL 1.4bar RR 1bar to get the same patch area and height from rim to road.

camber set at 1deg

rear axle/wheels been moved back abit and aligned straight so the swaybar bracket misses the exhaust when touching the bumpstop. front wheels all aligned dead straight with 0 toe

ballast in engine bay is anchored down using the battery tray bolt holes

DSC05048.JPG


just need to reconnect the IC hose and drill through 5 dumbell weights to bolt em in and we're done before test drive :)
tis al getting abit close to the trackday deadline.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
graph of tyre area over pressure

pressure.jpg


got up early to test car before work.

at first the steering wheel self centres real straight but car drifts abit to left as usual so i toed in the FL more and now it only goes straight if i point it straight but drifts & self centres the wheel abit to the left, same as before. wonder if the lower balljoint or lower arm mount/chassis is outa whack.

susp wise feels abit more consistant gripping left n right, wont know for sure till trackday. the exhaust banging rattle has gone even over speed bumps, rear travel over speedbumps feels less harsh and as though the dampers are working with a wider available stroke rather than a sudden jolt up the backside from hitting the bumpstop.

had a tiny loose rattle somewhere in FR arch when FR wheel hits a bump but nothing appears loose. 10mins later down carriageway once everythings warmed up the rattles gone.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
tried adjusting the FL wheel and rear axle but it still wants to pull to the left no matter what i do or what side of the cambered road i'm on.
somes tyres now down to 2.5mm so may soon need to order summore toyos
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
working hard, you'll be seeing those measurements in your sleep haha.

Low Rider whats your brakes? the sunny ones ive got on mine just fit behind stock steelies :D
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
working hard, you'll be seeing those measurements in your sleep haha.

Low Rider whats your brakes? the sunny ones ive got on mine just fit behind stock steelies :D
those vast numbers during balancing kept me from sleepin as i was trying to make sense of it all. not much sleep and took alot longer n more complex than i thought. feel all worn out, hope i can last all day tomorrow and then a good weekend lie in.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
good news, i believe i've solved the drifting left issue.

had an odd fault on the way home tonight. was overtaking a lorry at one point and then suddenly the engine has cut power, WTF?
pulled over, doesn't start, fuel pump not on. pump fuse is fine. consult couldn't connect prob cos ecu has no power but accessaries work. uh-oh.
checked engine bay fuses and the 25A eng management fuse has blown. crap i don't have spare. swapped one from power windows and that blows too yikes. checked no wiring is shorting. last resort i swapped the rad fan fuse which looked the same thickness compared to the thin power window fuse. and she starts, phew. get her home asap cos i got no fan nor windows. took moms car to scrappy and grabbed a whole buncha engine bay fuses. replaced and she seems normal now. hmm what the heck caused this i wonder.

back home i went about anchoring the ballast. drilled holes through all 5 plates and passenger floor. bit tricky getting all 12 holes lined up exactly. all bolted up

DSC05050.JPG
DSC05051.JPG


and then sort out the tyre pressure & straighten alignment.
i noticed measuring the actual floor to rim distance that they're abit varied especially the FR wheel thats 5mm higher than the rest.
ignoring the tread area tests i did before, i manually adjusted all tyre pressure till the rim sat bout 7mm from the floor.
ended up with FL 2.2/FR 1.85/RL 1.35/RR 1bar. the FR tyre seems stiffer than the other for some reason even though its got the most weight pushing on it.

result is the left drift pulling has all gone, steering straight n true on flat roads and slight drift only on very cambered streets. all sorted n prepped for tomorrow :grinning: just didn't have time to clean her but meh
 
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flippin ek mate youve been so busy i wouldnt have the patients to do any of this top job to you mate i hope all this pays off well!

and as frank was saying i found the same when that 4 wheel drift was on it felt smoother and the corners were alot faster
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Teesside Autodrome trackday 2011

arrived at teesside autodrome at 8am but the staff who registers the car drivers aren't in yet

DSC05052.JPG
DSC05053.JPG


registered at 8.50 short briefing and then out for 3 intro laps before session commences


dad stopped filming after 1st lap cos he was holding onto cam and would get nauseous if he was looking at the screen rather than the track.
brakes and tyres take bout a lap to heat up so to em easy at first.
after 3 laps session would continue cos the leading guy has pulled in but some ppl were abit hesitate at first if they could overtake yet.

the damper hardness were at 66% front and 0% rear. with dads extra 95kg in the left side, it understeers abit during the last medium fast 180deg right hand corner and the demanding twisty uphill mid sections. at the 1st hairpin its ridiculously bumpy as the car bumps all over and loses some traction.

1st session ends for the bikes next.
tyres pressures gone up from 1.85/2.2/1.35/1.0 fr/fl/rl/rr to 2.18/2.53/1.53/1.11bars

i experimented with 100% hard dampers all round on the 1st proper run
car session delayed till 10.30am abit cos a biker had crashed.




trackside view


car is alot stiffer on fast bends but on bumpy slow corners especially the 1st hairpin the harder front damper loses traction.
so i set to 66% front and 100% rear to try regain front traction.

the camera battery died on me 3rd run but the car felt abit better. understeer is still there if pushed too hard. exiting the corners the lsd def helps to put the power down but as with any fwd the tyres could only put down so much.
brakes have now got a nice transfer area after few hard laps. once brakes n tyres are fully hot i progressively dared to brake later n harder every time i go down the straights doin 70-80 and tis unbeliable how fast it decelerates down to 40 from where the darker skid marks appear at bout 50m point, almost tears ur face off. tis only limited by how hard i can press the brake and the abs rarely engages except if it hits a bump.

biker session was next followed by 1hr lunch break so we went out for lunch early. went to start car and the ign lights wont turn on. oh ffs prob sticky ign switch again. took it out, wiped contacts clean, reassemble and its starts ok. think i need to replace this old switch.

had a nice kfc in the lush sun.

car session commenced at 1pm. took dad along.


dad commented later that he didn't feel as much umpth up the hill n straights compared to turbo cars he's driven before, as though it was like my old janspeed system.
i was unaware of it at the time till we finished the day but what actually happened is that at one point the pipe from the IC to AFM had once again blown off loose so only 4psi of boost was going through (so making only say 110bhp) hence why it just accelerates like the janspeed system and why you could hear the leaking hiss down the straights when it goes above 4psi.

back at pits the loaded FL tyre is shredding down towards the min mark so i swapped the FL & RL wheel.

DSC05054.JPG
DSC05055.JPG
DSC05056.JPG
DSC05057.JPG


entire alloy, tyre & nuts are really hot to touch so much that the centre cap just fell off loose when i removed the front wheel. gonna need to figure a better fixing solution for it.

nice brake transfer layer

DSC05058.JPG
DSC05059.JPG


going out on track the fuel dropped from abit down to red so had to go back out to a local shell to fill up.
cos of the transfer layer on the brake discs the cold discs really felt like stone, especially going back onto the public road.
this is the 4th run after swapping the tyres and filling up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQwodtm_tSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hodzllahFPM

its now 3pm, only 2 more car sessions till 5pm and i'm running outa fuel and tyres so i had one last go with just me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R817G5PavQ0

car felt great, track is almost empty and real grippy hot. blown away by the pulsar brakes at end of straights and found i could take the 1st fast left corner in 3rd WOT, cut the apex and it grips.

dad videoed that corner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLmipl-3oFY

afternoon run on a hot empty track pushing the car is the most fun period of the day.

car in one piece. lettering on the toyos are half gone especially the RH which is the heaviest and has the lowest tyre pressure

DSC05060.JPG
DSC05061.JPG


fantastic day(Y)
 
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r-reg-sr

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rawbridgemassacre

one of the best cars in england.
like your driving style, specialy the cornering. so you were 50 bhp down all day?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I just went out to test car and comparing to footage of goin down the straights it seems like i was down in power since the moment i went full boost and the pipe popped off. End of the straights i only just went 70-80mph and yet on the motorway i could get there much quicker with full boost
 

r-reg-sr

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this one's going to pups very nice camera footage of the corner you kept blasting through. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!
shhhhhh so the next track instalments gonna be the shizzle bizzle cant wait!
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the centre cap that popped off doesn't fit in its hole at all now. they're abit unconvenient when it comes to changing tyres cos i have to scrape off the bond to remove the caps then bond em back on afterwards

DSC05062.JPG


lookin around for summin like a sink plug to wedge into the hole and attach the cap to that, i then thought what bout this hub dust cap

DSC05063.JPG


pushed onto hub

DSC05064.JPG


and it ain't too bad. i'll need to grab 3 more plus a newer ign switch from scrappy

DSC05065.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
been thinkin bout the understeer issue, maybe the rear tread area shoulda been lower to reduce rear grip by increasing rear tyre pressure cos the back end has less weight?
 

frank

Club Member
been thinkin bout the understeer issue, maybe the rear tread area shoulda been lower to reduce rear grip by increasing rear tyre pressure cos the back end has less weight?
i would try some more camber on the front first paul, then rear a/r/b changes
maximizing grip where its lacking first, then making the front or back loose as a last resort :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
this one's going to pups very nice camera footage of the corner you kept blasting through. THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!
shhhhhh so the next track instalments gonna be the shizzle bizzle cant wait!
next one will hopefully be at castle combe in aug with me cousin
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i would try some more camber on the front first paul, then rear a/r/b changes
maximizing grip where its lacking first, then making the front or back loose as a last resort :)
k for next track i'll crank more static camber, and increase tyre pressure cos i think they're all too low letting the walls flex under onto the lettering. the rear whiteline swaybars were set hard.

the FR that i had to set the pressure wayy down to match the other side may have been the recent newer tyre and have a stiffer wall for some reason. ordered 4 new set of t1r so hopefully they'll be all consistant again.

when hitting the bumpstops, the front damper dust sleeve would be seen pushed wayy down the body cos the inner dia of the bellow-like cover when bunched up is actually smaller than the dia of the bumpstop. looking at the front dampers tday the covers were pushed far lower so it seems the front coils are way too soft to resist body roll during the heavy cornering. may need to order the 6kg coils before castle combe.
 

Low Rider

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k for next track i'll crank more static camber, and increase tyre pressure cos i think they're all too low letting the walls flex under onto the lettering. the rear whiteline swaybars were set hard.

the FR that i had to set the pressure wayy down to match the other side may have been the recent newer tyre and have a stiffer wall for some reason. ordered 4 new set of t1r so hopefully they'll be all consistant again.

when hitting the bumpstops, the front damper dust sleeve would be seen pushed wayy down the body cos the inner dia of the bellow-like cover when bunched up is actually smaller than the dia of the bumpstop. looking at the front dampers tday the covers were pushed far lower so it seems the front coils are way too soft to resist body roll during the heavy cornering. may need to order the 6kg coils before castle combe.
Rear anti-roll bar is where it should be ;) If you want to carry plenty of speed through corners it's the only place to have it.

I'm just contemplating spring rates for when we set the car up for it's first shakedown at Keevil in Sept. IIRC Matt stocks 35N/mm, 40N/mm & 45N/mm front springs and 17.5N/mm and 25N/mm rears, (seem a little soft to me), all in 60ID and 250mm length. Not sure on the makes though, (I only buy Eibach).

What rates are you currently running?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Rear anti-roll bar is where it should be ;) If you want to carry plenty of speed through corners it's the only place to have it.

I'm just contemplating spring rates for when we set the car up for it's first shakedown at Keevil in Sept. IIRC Matt stocks 35N/mm, 40N/mm & 45N/mm front springs and 17.5N/mm and 25N/mm rears, (seem a little soft to me), all in 60ID and 250mm length. Not sure on the makes though, (I only buy Eibach).

What rates are you currently running?
4kg front & 3kg rear
62ID and 220 length
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
since i'm going to the remote islands of scotland like Stornoway on me roadtrip on 24th and 98 ron will be rare, i brought 5 bottles of millers cvl turbo octane booster enough for 100L (3.3tanks) roughly 830miles. prob more than enough to get me from Stornoway through isle of Skye to the nearest shell station at Inverness

DSC05081.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ah buma the place i ordered the toyos from called to say they'd had stopped selling them, even though i could still check the Buy button?
so cancelled it and ordered from camskill instead. ccard's not gonna be happy again this month.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
went to scrappy n got 3 hub caps n ign switch just before it shuts

DSC05073.JPG


painted black

DSC05077.JPG


pushed in. looks nice

DSC05078.JPG
DSC05079.JPG


set of nice toyo's delivered

DSC05074.JPG


painted

DSC05075.JPG
DSC05076.JPG


gonna fit em tomorrow. may as well goto scotland roads with 7mm of tread than 2.5mm for safety sake.
 
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r-reg-sr

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yeh that time i tried the quick fix on me ignition switch too, soon fail'd again
with this summer we are having you'd need good tyres for sure
 

Daniel

I WILL be back...
Those centre caps look really good, I might have to get some seeing as how the cheap plastic ones on my Calibres are falling apart :glare:. 5 finger discount from the local scrappie I think
 
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