Petrol pooling in intake manifold?

LegoJeep

LegoJeep

I have a 98 GX 1.0 that has been running poorly for some time now(lack of power, running too rich, and hesitating severely under acceleration) Today I had a look down the throttle body while holding the throttle wide open and saw a pool of petrol. I have never seen something like this on an injected car before. Any suggestions?
 
Skinner_87 said:
Might be way off but its not just a pool of oil from the rocker cover breather take off is it?
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If I rock the car slightly it moves like water.. so I am fairly certain It's not oil.. possibly a mix though as it is slightly brown, but it smells of petrol

pollyp said:
Leaking injectors?
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That is what I'm thinking.. the manual says that you must replace the seals when you remove the injectors.. is this strictly neccesary if I remove them and they are fine? It seems that everything here has to be ordered and takes a few days to arrive.. Had to wait 4 days already for a replacement suspension bolt :(
 
LegoJeep said:
That is what I'm thinking.. the manual says that you must replace the seals when you remove the injectors.. is this strictly neccesary if I remove them and they are fine? It seems that everything here has to be ordered and takes a few days to arrive.. Had to wait 4 days already for a replacement suspension bolt :(
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like any rubber seal, once they've been installed and been through several heat cycles through the yrs they lose their original elasticity and would prob leak if re-used for such high pressure systems.

if they are the cause of the leak ur bound to replace em all anyway. just afew £ on ebay
 
before u pull the injectors out the rail maybe try removing the rail off the manifold still piped up, prime the fuel pump and see if fuel leaks out the tips?
 
pollyp said:
before u pull the injectors out the rail maybe try removing the rail off the manifold still piped up, prime the fuel pump and see if fuel leaks out the tips?
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So I can pull the whole rail with no problems? I was thinking of the seals in the manifold, but then saw Frank's post...

frank said:
they only seal the manifold vacuum tho eh, i just turn them over personally.
diagnosis is the key imo, before buying needless parts
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I definately agree with you.. We go through a lot of o-rings on a high pressure pump at work and I just flip them and reinstall.. no problems with the pump.. it's just a lot of dirt and grime and stress on the rings.

What is the best way to clean injectors? I'm thinking carb cleaner and a soft toothbrush.

Thanks for all the help and speedy replies.. you guys are great :D
 
Injectors are fine.. but I never have problems when starting.. only after it's warm.. proceding to remove and test the coolant temp sensor....
 
Gone down a long list of things.. Yay.. need a new TB :( ...going to try to clean this one up first... Already did the resoldering once before, but that did nothing... I hate modern cars with all their fancy electronics... give me a classic any day! A big ol' truck with enough room to sit beside the engine... and no computer stuff!!
Ok.. I'm done :)
 
Pulled the TB.. cleaned it up with some carb cleaner.. decided to resolder it again, properly this time... had a slight lapse of attention and picked up the soldering iron like i pick up a dremmel... got a nice burn on my fingertip... resoldered, resealed the cover.. going to reinstall tomorrow.
 
Forgot to post yesterday. Reinstalled the TB. Ran OK for the first few mins just driving around the block(after having time to warm up at idle). Out to the motorway and it was running terribly. Limped home... Have to part with some cash soon :( Read a post about TB problems can also burn out the O2 sensor..

With all the possible problems I'm having, shouldn't the 'check engine' light have come on by now?
 
Didn't actually get that far.. I have a bit of a short attention span sometimes(often).. Got sidetracked by cleaning and painting some parts. Trying to get on top of rust problems while I have access to a garage, as it rains here nearly every day, and I only have the garage when my landlord is out of town. Going to check it in the morning though.

I checked everything on the TB while I was at it. When I checked the airflow meter, I should have gotten 0.5v with the engine stopped, and 2.0v while running.. I got battery voltage between two, and about 0.3v lower across the others. Not sure which is 1, 2, and 3. Would a faulty cts cause this though? Going to get a thermometer tomorrow so I can test the cts at the proper temps.
 
if you disconnect the c/t/s you will be in coldstart enrichment (all the time) and it will run very lumpy (a faulty one will probably do the same)
i have 2 c/t/s,s wired in parallel :)
 
Ok, so a few days without being able to do anything, and having the car stall in front of a bus.. finally got the cts out and checked.. it's fine. I absolutely cannot afford a mechanic here as their rates are absurdly high. Parts alone cost a fortune.. £950 for a new TB.. £58 for a cts, etc.. Sooo, ignoring the stuff in the intake, what else could be causing it to run so badly?
 
frank said:
diagnosis is the key imo, before buying needless parts
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reading the lambda voltage on the fly will confirm if the lambda or c/t/s or maf etc are functioning correctly, there are some vids on my youtube channel showing what readings you should have (aelknarf)
 
Did the Lambda test through the self diagnostic a while back.. seems to work fine, Won't be able to test the voltage while driving until late this evening when there is no traffic.
 
I thought of that... or thought about the fact that I don't yet have a timing gun, and to check the dizzy you have to pull it and adjust the timing afterward... soooo.. parting with some more money very soon.. but still cheaper than a TB.. going to the shop now.. get to enjoy our wonderful public transit system that is never ever late and where the drivers are always ever so courteous... blah... and walking in the lovely rain :/

on the plus side, finally doing a few things I've wanted to do for a while.. but that will be in the blog at a later time :)
 
Well.. I'm a bit dumb at times, thought I was disabling the injectors, but disabled the entire engine management circuit..:oops:Did it right this time, got 12.45v(battery) where I should have and 0-5v where I got none before.. Tried the self diagnostic again and found that it was not running rich as I thought, but running lean. This wasn't the case last time I tried it. Found and read this post http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/need-a-little-guidence-throttle-body-problems.39697/#post-414421 and so have a new direction to go with my search. When this first started, I thought it felt similar to what happened in my Celica. The petrol station I used most had 40 year old tanks in fairly bad condition and so I had lots of sediment in my tank.. fuel pump went fairly quickly in the end. Going to have a look in the tank now and see how it looks. I am one of those who runs the tank nearly empty before fueling up again.. Kinda funny that this has recently been a subject in the 'What did you do to your Micra today?' thread. http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/what-did-you-do-to-your-micra-today.43944/page-49
 
POWER!!!!! Got into the tank, but couldn't get the pump out(yes, found the clip and pulled up)... gave it a good shaking to break any crud loose.. got everything closed up again, tested the lambda.. steadier voltage around .3 instead of .1.. went to diagnostic mode 2 and accelerated same as in the first run earlier.. rich the whole way and with some umph! OH YEAH!! ok.. coffee kick over.. still overjoyed :D

frank said:
lambda readings will point you in the right direction :)
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Yes they will :)

Many thanks you guys for all the help.. got some other things cleaned up in the process of elimination.. Will see how it goes this weekend.. Whenever I get over to the UK I'll have to buy you all a pint or two :D
 
...yea... so that was short lived... drove about a mile before it started acting up again... not home at the moment, so will have a look at everything again tomorrow evening. I had hoped that this was the problem, as it used to clear up when the tank was full, and would get worse as it got lower.. I don't know why I forgot about this until now.

So here we stand: TB soldered(going to check it again), Lambda funtioning properly(so far as I know), Starts and idles fine though slightly more difficult to start when warm(just crank about 3-4 seconds instead of 1), Dizzy working, CAS ok, newish(from nov) air filter and fuel filter, new spark plugs in Jan(still ok, only slightly black around the ring), Timing set to about 17 and ignition advances as it should when revving.

Just about ready to scream sometimes :mad: . I can't afford to change this and that to see if it might help, and definately can't afford a mechanic.. have to get this sorted soon.
 
More crap and maybe problem found.

Good news: It kinda helps to know what certain terms mean.. like 'back probe' ...when I measured the TB voltage a month ago I didn't know it.. I learned what it was last week then got proper readings on my dizzy.. just measured the TB again and got .489v ignition on and 1.19v engine idling.. only got as high as 1.7 when revving. Should be around 2v when running

Bad news: Just got a hole in the exhaust.. only checked it 2 weeks ago and it was fine... when I get the TB sorted, I will have a friend weld this.
 

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