nitrous oxide

[the legend]

I bought myself a nos kit but now i'm in doubt. Normally you fit the nozzle in the airintake in front of the throttlebody. But as we all know the first K11 have the air mass sensor inside the throttlebody. So you cannot put the nozzle in the airintake it would destroy the sensor.
What is the place to put it?

 

[ollyc98]

I seriously suggest a professional fits it. However if you insist on doing so then drill into the intake manifold in the centre and screw it into there.

 

[ollie240585]

I think you'll need to drill and tap the NOS nozzles into the bottom of the throttle body below the MAF sensor.

I'm pretty certain Ed said something like this when i was contemplating it.

The K11 TB does not really allow anywhere for the NOS kit as standard!

 

[frank]

yes thats where i had to fit my lpg nozzle (below the butterfly)

 

[the legend]

I think you'll need to drill and tap the NOS nozzles into the bottom of the throttle body below the MAF sensor.

I'm pretty certain Ed said something like this when i was contemplating it.

The K11 TB does not really allow anywhere for the NOS kit as standard!

But isn't that to close to the inlet manifold i thought i read an article that it needs some time for the chemical reaction. I don't know i'm not that kind of expert.

 

[ollie240585]

Neither am I, Not in the slightest. Sammohung has added NOS to his K10 so he may be a able to offer some advice (although completely different fueling systems). Ed is the best man to speak to regarding this.

There is also something playing on my mind which I think i MAY have read somewhere which quotes that the K11 is crap for adding NOS too. Although I may be completely making that up.

 

[Alienfish360]

what kit is it? got any links?

After looking at the k11 inlet manifold, for equal flow to the 4 cylidners, 2 injectors would be needed if injecting into the plenum chamber.

 

[the legend]

I allready sent a message to fusion sport. I'll hope he has the solution.
Thanks anyway

what kit is it? got any links?

After looking at the k11 inlet manifold, for equal flow to the 4 cylidners, 2 injectors would be needed if injecting into the plenum chamber.

It's a wet kit from Cold Fusion.

 

[Ed]

Got the email just replying to loads more than normal so there is a bit of a queue. However, the plenum design and the way the inlet manifold slopes down and back up is really bad for the nitrous/fuel mix. I tried a small shot system on a K11 and the distribution was really quite poor. Unfortunately it would seem thus far that the K11 stock intake is not really suited to N2O. Ideally it needs more research to be sure, but it is in some ways fundamentally flawed to try and use a single fuel injector on it. direct port really is perhaps the better option but at obviously greater expense.

Ed

 

[the legend]

Got the email just replying to loads more than normal so there is a bit of a queue. However, the plenum design and the way the inlet manifold slopes down and back up is really bad for the nitrous/fuel mix. I tried a small shot system on a K11 and the distribution was really quite poor. Unfortunately it would seem thus far that the K11 stock intake is not really suited to N2O. Ideally it needs more research to be sure, but it is in some ways fundamentally flawed to try and use a single fuel injector on it. direct port really is perhaps the better option but at obviously greater expense.

Ed

So if i understand you correctly Ed. The only way to try is to put the nozzle into the Inlet manifold. Below the Maf sensor is not an option? What do you mean by the distribution is quite poor. Not every cylinder gets the same amount? Or perhaps is there a special inlet manifold for the Micra?

Har

 

[frank]

the legend

nos has simular requirements to lpg surely ?
mine runs allright with the nozzle in the throttle body !

 

[storme37]

i was always under the impression that you had to have other engin upgrades or you burn out your engine? surely a standard micra engine would go bang in no time? but if it works hehehe

good luck

 

[the legend]

not if you only give it a small amount of nos.

 

[Retepetsir]

It worked on mine, but that wasnt fitted permanently, Dan the previous owner just gave it a test run on the dyno and hit 100bhp at the wheels.... ~120bhp at the fly,

 

[the legend]

It worked on mine, but that wasnt fitted permanently, Dan the previous owner just gave it a test run on the dyno and hit 100bhp at the wheels.... ~120bhp at the fly,

That is good news. Were did you fit the nozzle? Why wasn't it fitted permanently? Did or do you own the first K11?

cheers
Har

 

[Low Rider]

I wouldn't recommend fitting nitrous to a K11 with the injector mounted below the MAF. You'll have distribution problems and possible fuelling issues. As the fuel and nitrous are fed into the manifold it hits the bottom of the plenum causing possible fuel dropout, due to length constraints. Running a larger fuel jet to compensate for this is not a reliable solution either.

There are several ways around this but none are cheap or simple fixes.

With regard to the dyno run, if the system was a single nozzle mounted under the maf I wouldn't rate a quick dyno pull. The system needs to be reliable and the ignition/fuel jetting setup so that possible lean conditions and runaway det cannot occur during continuous use, which would kill the engine pretty quickly.

As with any system, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well

 

[micra_pete]

dave, the previous owner Dan is - I believe - one of the dyno operators for Abbey.

it should be noted, but his name i forget, some european lad had nitrous, seemed to go though engines.......

 

[Retepetsir]

I wouldn't recommend fitting nitrous to a K11 with the injector mounted below the MAF. You'll have distribution problems and possible fuelling issues. As the fuel and nitrous are fed into the manifold it hits the bottom of the plenum causing possible fuel dropout, due to length constraints. Running a larger fuel jet to compensate for this is not a reliable solution either.

There are several ways around this but none are cheap or simple fixes.

With regard to the dyno run, if the system was a single nozzle mounted under the maf I wouldn't rate a quick dyno pull. The system needs to be reliable and the ignition/fuel jetting setup so that possible lean conditions and runaway det cannot occur during continuous use, which would kill the engine pretty quickly.

As with any system, if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well

Yep, Dan is the Dyno operator and a tuner for Abbey Motorsport, it was just a test run to see what would happen. Basically a brand new Wizards of NOS kit with 25 shot nozzles, I ended up selling the kit on for a ridiculously low price as a) i couldnt get insured when using it and b) nobody wanted to buy it!

He was modifying a micra throttlebody to take a permanent installation for nitrous, but ended up getting bored of the car (it had failed the mot on the sills and he didnt have time to work on it) and purchased an Alfa instead. Unfortunately I didnt get the spare TB with the car, but that might have worked. He certainly knows his stuff

I sold it to a guy who tunes and races Volvos, and he paid £180 for it including a large 5kg bottle of nitrous :wow: .

'the legend' - I didnt fit it myself, it was done by the previous owner (as stated above), but he gave me all the kit with the car, along with the dyno results and figures

I'd liked to have found a solution to use it, I just couldnt afford the extra insurance premium.

 

[Antony]

you would need a tubular manifold... (like what you would use for ITB's..) then a plenum chamber with the micra TB on the end.... and a single port into the plenum.. this would create a better atomisation of the nos and fuel...

 

[Low Rider]

The atomisation of the fuel is done by the crossfire injector from the nitrous flow, but it's no good if that nicely atomised mixture immediately slams into the plenum wall.

Also I wouldn't recommend anyone to fit nitrous to a modified K11 that is still running on the standard ecu, as the fuelling is far from ideal.

 

[Alienfish360]

you could do it with 2 injectors 1 on the left of the plenum chamber and 1 on the right.

Or, the best solution is direct injection.

The atomisation of the fuel is done by the crossfire injector from the nitrous flow, but it's no good if that nicely atomised mixture immediately slams into the plenum wall.

Also I wouldn't recommend anyone to fit nitrous to a modified K11 that is still running on the standard ecu, as the fuelling is far from ideal.

Although the fueling under nitrous is adjusted in the installation proceedure by adjusting the fuel solenoids jet.

 

[Low Rider]

DP, although an extra cost, would probably work out to be the easiest and most cost effective. IIRC it's around another £150 to upgrade to direct port.

The fuelling for nitrous is jetted to keep the AFR correct with the additional oxygen provided by the nitrous, it's also jetted to take into account bottle pressure due to ambient temps or the use of a heater jacket. However a modified K11 running on a standard ecu has truely terrible AFR's that unfortunately do not stay stable across the rev range, so you would have to jet to the richest setting to avoid problems and run overly rich elsewhere. You would also have to jet for top gear, where acceleration enrichment is at it's lowest, to avoid leaning out......basically, it's not a good recipe for a reliable system.

A re-map will sort all that out and provide a good base to build on.

 

[SammoHung]

Hia mate!

Crap! (I totally missed this thread....what a 'Goober')

....


just a few of comments to add (without the quotes...sorry) i hope they're usefull

You asked about even distribution... yes thats the same (or very similar) AMMOUNTS & MIXTURES set to each of the 4 cylinders....if all are uneven ammounts but all on the rich side then theres no major problem apart from you may not get the best efficiency/performance....but if the MIXTURE is un even....then there is the worry that one or more cylinders going lean (POP BANG <backfire, or worse spark plug smashed, or worse valve / piston / inlet damage...or worse still....LOL) :-(..I have only had one glance at the K11 inlet, and if i recall each the runners are slightly different lengths and take different routes (have different bends) <as well as dipping down and back up again>.

Lean can easily cause permenant dammage....
Rich will reduce best performance (but will still be a fun boost that will make you grin.
Extreemly rich will cause problems (missfire, plug soot fouling and stalling) but a quick plug change / cleen will get you rinning perfectly again.

The problem with dips in the runners that have to go back up again is that fuel can drop out of the nitrous mixture and you move towards lean....but as others have said, a direct port will reduce this problem.

I'm not sure if the K11 inlet is as restrictive as the K10 one...but if this is a potential area for N/A - Off gas tuning then it would be my first port of call if I was looking forward to a enjoying a reliable and fun nitrous setup....woud this be possible? (a custom, equal inlet manifold)

I DONT think the stock ECU AFR fluctuations will be a major problem...since its a wet kit you can chose slightly rich enrichment jet and know you are safe here.

the position of LPG (fuel) and nitrous (oxidiser <like air>) cant be compaired directly, mainly because the temperature drop caused by the emitted liquid nitrous turning to gas is much larger than any temperature drop caused by evaporating LPG


I have got to say this subject is HUGE and FUN

If you want the most reliable nitrous kit then it has to be Wizards of NOS, since all of their components are designed from scratch for nitrous use and high reliabillity. the 'rest' of the kit types are all the same industrial kit with different labels :-(....so if you end up getting stuck right in to this sort of thing then I can reccommend switching kits too. they cost more.....but much less in comparrison with a dead K11 caused by kit failure.

You WOULD NOT BELEIVE THE LEVEL OF CUSTOMER SUPPORT Wizards of NOS give to all their customers......and ANYONE is welcome into their forum too

check it out:
http://forum.nitrous-advice.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2799&hilit=nossan

sorry im late with this but i hope some of it is usefull

good luck matey!!!

Oh One more thing to add (sorry)

the quallity of the installation has to be very good no mater which kit you have....and in my oppinion, in the DIY community, this is the biggest area of risk.....for example....the fuel enrichment solenoid electrical connections are made.....but due to in adequare support, the wire breaks after being vibrated for a period by the running engine.........->lots of nitrous......no extra fuel.....catastrophe...lol....