inlet mani/ throttle body choices

[Al Shore]

Hi Guys,
putting together a new inlet set-up for my micra, have had a couple of issues when trying to match up throttle body with my loom,

This plug wont attach to the corresponding plug (below)

5 pins on the loom - 3 pins on the TB
recent developments have led me to believe that the TB won't attach to the coilpack loom, =(

Have just received the inlet mani with bigger injectors that I was planning to use in conjunction with the GA16 TB & airbox, and I'm wondering whether I can swop over a sensor from one to the other/ do some wire cutting & taping to get the signal through or whether they are incompatible, there is another plug on the K11 TB too with 2 pins but there isn't a corresponding plug on the GA16 which does lead me to believe that they wont be compatible.
I was looking at race spec TB's online etc but when a new K11 one will set you back £100 i think the performance spec will be well out of my budget.
Reading through ebbdudes thread and am considering the dremmeling of the butterfly blade, and I like the idea of the spacer but there isn't enough height clearance under my bonnet for that.
I really do want to avoid using an induction kit to level out the afr while using the injectors but if there's no other option open to me, I suppose I can be persueded.
just kinda hoping that someone might have a couple of idea's, would a newer model TB off a more recent GA model engine do the job do you reckon?

 

[mckenziecz]

I know frank has sealed the 1.3 maf into the 1.6 throttle body

 

[frank]

I know frank has sealed the 1.3 maf into the 1.6 throttle body

sort of
my N/A setup has the top of the CG t/b bonded into the GA airbox (so that the maf is pre throttlebody and is 60mm inside dia) and that assy is slipped onto an SR t/b (60mm inside dia)
my forced setup is simply a stock CG t/b

 

[frank]

Have just received the inlet mani with bigger injectors that I was planning to use in conjunction with the GA16 TB & airbox, and I'm wondering whether I can swop over a sensor from one to the other/ do some wire cutting & taping to get the signal through or whether they are incompatible, there is another plug on the K11 TB too with 2 pins but there isn't a corresponding plug on the GA16 which does lead me to believe that they wont be compatible.
I was looking at race spec TB's online etc but when a new K11 one will set you back £100 i think the performance spec will be well out of my budget.
Reading through ebbdudes thread and am considering the dremmeling of the butterfly blade, and I like the idea of the spacer but there isn't enough height clearance under my bonnet for that.
I really do want to avoid using an induction kit to level out the afr while using the injectors but if there's no other option open to me, I suppose I can be persueded.
just kinda hoping that someone might have a couple of idea's, would a newer model TB off a more recent GA model engine do the job do you reckon?

your coilpack engine bay loom is very different to the pre 2000 k11,s, its probably more akin to the QG engined N16 (almera,s) they have the same 5 wire maf i believe

 

[Al Shore]

have had a look online at the N16maf, the pinout looks good, but i dont think it'll fit in the ga16 tb, however the N16 TB looks promising, 5 pin, 3 pin, and i think theres 2, 2 pin ports, but maybe one can be bypassed, or ignored, haven't been able to find a pic of the footprint, so i'm going to take a trace of the mount on the inlet and find somewhere with one to compare it, if it's not compatible is it possible to make an adaptor plate to sit inbetween? I like the idea of 1/2 of the cg tb mounted on the airbox inline with the next one, but it may be a bit big to fit.
on another train, do you reckon the 1.4 coilpack has a bigger throttle body or same as the 1.0? maybe i should have a loook down the local scrappy see waht i can get hold of ..

 

[frank]

have had a look online at the N16maf, the pinout looks good, but i dont think it'll fit in the ga16 tb, however the N16 TB looks promising, 5 pin, 3 pin, and i think theres 2, 2 pin ports, but maybe one can be bypassed, or ignored, haven't been able to find a pic of the footprint, so i'm going to take a trace of the mount on the inlet and find somewhere with one to compare it, if it's not compatible is it possible to make an adaptor plate to sit inbetween? I like the idea of 1/2 of the cg tb mounted on the airbox inline with the next one, but it may be a bit big to fit.
on another train, do you reckon the 1.4 coilpack has a bigger throttle body or same as the 1.0? maybe i should have a loook down the local scrappy see waht i can get hold of ..

the bosch QG and CG maf share the same part number apparently, and the QG t/b has a square smaller bolt pattern, but bigger 50mm bore

 

[Al Shore]

will have a look, new little development, the ga tb footprint is different to the mount on the inlet and the holes are in a different comfiguration, so will have to find a new way around this, -
Scratch that, just found talk to frank 1 mirrion questions hehehehe, will get it drilled and source a new maf,
oooh, one thing i was thinking of, any ideas on what to use to clean up the inlet mani before i fit it? inside is kinda coated with some oily fuelly smelling residue, was thinking of soaking it in petrol and seeing how well that worked, but seems like a bit of a waste looking at the petrol prices :S

 

[frank]

will have a look, new little development, the ga tb footprint is different to the mount on the inlet and the holes are in a different comfiguration, so will have to find a new way around this,

the GA footprint is the same as the CG (but not coilpack/post 2000)

 

[Al Shore]

jus thinking on it now, would the drilling cause me any issues with stress? cant see it really getting too stressed, but being heated and cooled repeatedly might have an effect, seen a couple of adaptor plates for sale, and some that people ahve made, is there any particlar material thats good for it or is it a case of trial and error? I was thinking maybe 5mm stainless steel cut and drilled to shape?

 

[Al Shore]

the bosch QG and CG maf share the same part number apparently, and the QG t/b has a square smaller bolt pattern, but bigger 50mm bore

right, I'm glad i chose to re-read these posts, i think it may just take ma few reads to get things clear in my head, early mornings with a teething baby killing brain capacity,
so, the mafs on QG and CG TBs should be interchangable thus QG could connect to my loom, pics online seem to confirm it, too =D
But the QG has a kind of square footprint whereas i'm looking at a more rectangular pattern, was talking to one of my mates who reckons he could basically cut a corresponding hole in a 5mm thick steel sheet, and spot weld the throttle body to that, and then drill out the holes for the restraining bolts (which I reckon may need replacing with ones 5mm longer), now this seemed like a pretty reasonable solution, probably cost me bout £20 to have it knocked up, plus whatever for the QG TB.
Any things I should be wary of you reckon when putting this together? anywhere thats likely to be submitted to high levels of stress?
Sorry to break it down so much, made a few mistakes in the past, want to avoid these as much as possible

 

[frank]

the QG t/b is a throttleplate only, and the maf is is housed in a separate body upstream (covered comprehensively in another thread this week).
and the t/b,s are alloy, so you cant weld steel to them

 

[Al Shore]

Lol, good job I checked, he did mention that it may not be made of steel thus giving that issue, bugg*r,
reading through the MAF info thread, so they seem to be saying that unless I was using some mad amounts of compression that I wouldnt really need to upgrade the TB, just the MAF? Might give it a go later, see if i can find a primera in the scrappy that'll fit, using some QG 1.5/1.8 injectors and I dont want to be running too fuel rich basically.

 

[frank]

you need to match the size of t/b to the size of injectors really, the maf basically measures the flow of air going past eh.
if your is a 1.4 ? then the stock t/b is too puny imo

 

[Al Shore]

you need to match the size of t/b to the size of injectors really

the maf basically measures the flow of air going past eh.
if your is a 1.4 ? then the stock t/b is too puny imo [/quote]

yeah this was my thoughts too, only running the 1.0 so it's not like theres a whole deal to be done, just trying to squeeze a little more out of her before she gets taken off the road in Jan..
I was thinking that ifi was gonna be using the 1.5/1.8 injectors then a 1.6 TB would balance it, (hence letting greater flow in) and using the 1.3 exhaust cam, maybe decatted, just to help get rid of the gases as they being made, didnt think that I'd really need the inlet cam if i was upping the injectors an TB, just a case of trying to find the right TB/maf combo to fit =D
If i cant weld the TB to a steel sheet to use as an adaptor plate what kind of heat resistant material would be good for it?
I've seen pictures of some, some look like bodge jobs some look really well made, but ive been having some trouble locating a manufactured adaptorplate for the k11otherwise would get one and mod that to fit what i need =D
Sorry to drain your brain of ideas Frank!

 

[frank]

i think your gains are gonna be pretty small on a 1.0 tbh, the red QG injectors should be worth trying tho (with an induction kit).
but the best mine ever went in N/A form was the cammed 1311cc (15.4 sec 1/4 and 109hp), with an SR (60mm) t/b and the QG injectors

 

[Al Shore]

funnily enough a friend of mines trying to convince to to have his old induction kit off him, might have to give in, as I said in the first post, I always try to avoid induction kits, simply for the noise they create, but so long as i keep my exhaust standard it wont be too bad , 109bhp out the 1.3? might have to have a gander for a new block at some point,
right, gonna get this fitted with the induction, see how it runs =D
Thanks for the help frank!

 

[frank]

funnily enough a friend of mines trying to convince to to have his old induction kit off him, might have to give in, as I said in the first post, I always try to avoid induction kits, simply for the noise they create, but so long as i keep my exhaust standard it wont be too bad , 109bhp out the 1.3? might have to have a gander for a new block at some point,
right, gonna get this fitted with the induction, see how it runs =D
Thanks for the help frank!

thats with a 1.0 block tho eh http://www.micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=65695
and i drove a 1.4 with an induction kit years ago, and it had the biggest flatspot ever ! (mid rpm) i bet it was leaning out badly on the stock injectors.
and np

 

[Al Shore]

lol, thats some serious work you've done there, I especially like the toyota 4 -1 inlet mani, how did you find that to run? I'm assuming you fitted some kind of induction piping for cold air, can't really see a sideways fitted airbox being too effective hehehe but then again, I'm proved wrong, maybe too often will let you know how this runs when i get it out tomorrow =D

 

[cts_k11]

hi new on the forum.I recently bought a 1.0 k11 had it about a week before it started suffering intermittent power loss and idle issues. Today i went to my local scrappies and purchased a throttle body for £20 i recalled to be the same got it home to discover my throttle body is a bosch model with a slightly different config does anyone kno of any reason this will not fit before i go ripping out my throttle body any advice is appreciated

 

[frank]

hi new on the forum.I recently bought a 1.0 k11 had it about a week before it started suffering intermittent power loss and idle issues. Today i went to my local scrappies and purchased a throttle body for £20 i recalled to be the same got it home to discover my throttle body is a bosch model with a slightly different config does anyone kno of any reason this will not fit before i go ripping out my throttle body any advice is appreciated

The bosch t/b,s have a stepper motor idle control valve, and different connectors, and a different bolt footprint..........so no .
Checkout the bosch maf threads

 

[Al Shore]

Hi again, have finally managed to get the one awkward nut off, replaced with some more resistant types well copper greased, so I've fitted the injectors and the induction kit, and tbh apart from getting alot louder there isnt really much of a change in responsivness etc, wondering if teh ecu maybe doesnt like the injectors, check engine lights been on since the fitting, i've checked all teh cables they're fine, so i disconnected the battery for half an hour then reconnected and it went off, done about 20 miles and its come back on again.
thinking that the ecu might be limiting the flow of fuel to the injectors to stop overfueling?
Also, if the maf on mine an the qg series have the same plug, do you reckon the ecu's have the same pinout, might be worth trying one to see if it'll give it a kick although i'd need to change the ignition key for the NATS?
Still on the lookout for a set of 1.3 cams, and I might go for the crank/rods etc route to lengthen the stroke a bit, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere in a frank post about it being viable

On a bit of a tangent I'm looking into some new suspension not fussed on lowering really I just want to stiffen it up a wee bit (I lie, I want to stiffen it, alot!), does anyone know how rally springs/shocks do for road driving? (handability etc)
Just some idea's floating around my brain at the mo, thought i'd see what people think?
Ta!

 

[frank]

the malfunction light will probably be the longterm fueltrim exceeding its limit with the bigger injectors, and the QG,s have inlet valve v-tec thingy iirc

 

[Al Shore]

the malfunction light will probably be the longterm fueltrim exceeding its limit with the bigger injectors, and the QG,s have inlet valve v-tec thingy iirc

lols technical terms that overwhelmed my small brain, have just looked up fueltrim, sounds like the name indicates ecu notices somethings up and will compensate accordingly, long term could be caused by bigger injectors, or lack of air, something permenant, whereeas short term being say compensating for low revs going up a hill?
Have got a air/fuel gauge coming in the next couple of weeks so will have to get that fitted, but tis not like theres clouds of black smoke coming out the back from badly burnt fuel, I think the injectors arent running at the same kind of levels they would be in a similar situation in a 1.8 - longterm fueltrim.
"Inlet valve v-tec thingy" I like the technical term kinda like the honda v-tec system? (which i also know nothing about but a friend is a honda nut I'll get him to explain next time i see him) So qg ecu prob not an option?