gimic mods...
- Thread starter squarepants
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Torque is rotational force.
Simplified majorly, a higher rotational force will give you faster acceleration.
BHP is more to do with top end speed. Work done in a certain time.
Torque does the work, HP determines how quickly you do the work, simplified. So I guess we're both wrong and both right
Simplified majorly, a higher rotational force will give you faster acceleration.
BHP is more to do with top end speed. Work done in a certain time.
Torque does the work, HP determines how quickly you do the work, simplified. So I guess we're both wrong and both right
I prefer to explain that a torque curve simply reflects how well an engine breathes.
Some real life simple examples:
If you 'tune' an engine to breath well at a high rpm then it will make a high BHP. Quite possibly (NOT ALWAYS) it will perform worse at a low rpm, loosing some low end torque which confuses many into thinking that bhp and torque are seperate when they are not.
Most cars are tuned to make peak torque around 3000 ish rpm which is where the engine may spend most of its life (ish)
Ultimately its work done eg BHP that moves anything, so more power = faster irrespective of torque figures. You just need to make sure that your able to match the gear ratios to the power output of an engine.
Some real life simple examples:
If you 'tune' an engine to breath well at a high rpm then it will make a high BHP. Quite possibly (NOT ALWAYS) it will perform worse at a low rpm, loosing some low end torque which confuses many into thinking that bhp and torque are seperate when they are not.
Most cars are tuned to make peak torque around 3000 ish rpm which is where the engine may spend most of its life (ish)
Ultimately its work done eg BHP that moves anything, so more power = faster irrespective of torque figures. You just need to make sure that your able to match the gear ratios to the power output of an engine.
thats a common description that I've heared from loads of people...but torque is a measure of work (joules of Energy) ....not 'rotational force'...theres no such thing as a 'rotational force' really since all forces (Newtons)..are straight line vecors
I like the way you contrast of torque and power as 'work (energy) available/transfer/done' (Joules) and 'rate of doing work' or 'rate to energy transfer' (Watts)..or "work done per second"
You mean power.
Torque is just a force acting on an axis, and may not involve any movement what so ever.
K10 chassis flex like a rubber band, so anything will help one of those haha.
I learnt that one years ago when I jacked up a K10 to change a wheel, the passenger door wouldn't open properly as the chassis would twist as it was lifted.
Which reminds me - Nissan recommend that you should jack equally to avoid doing such a thing ! Obviously this isn't piratical 99% of the time.
Which reminds me - Nissan recommend that you should jack equally to avoid doing such a thing !
Obviously this isn't piratical 99% of the time.
Baz
Ex. Club Member
I learnt that one years ago when I jacked up a K10 to change a wheel, the passenger door wouldn't open properly as the chassis would twist as it was lifted.
Which reminds me - Nissan recommend that you should jack equally to avoid doing such a thing !
:grinning: I know it all to well!
curtis
Ex. Club Member
All of these make a difference, even if its 0.5 of a bhp...
Most of them are mainly safety things...such as handling
If you were in a crash some where around the front...i bet the strut brace would help a bit!
Also what you have said in one of the comments
"why spend ££££'s on a micra when you can spend silly money on somthing that is already faster standard...."
You just joined that special club of people who diss micra modifiers...which i thought you were too
Its gaining the pleasure outa doing things to your car and getting reactions off people, when i had my k10, and put the 1.2 engine in (which had a few mods that you have mentioned) People were amazed by it, e.g. keeping up with GTI6's etc
o well
Most of them are mainly safety things...such as handling
If you were in a crash some where around the front...i bet the strut brace would help a bit!
Also what you have said in one of the comments
"why spend ££££'s on a micra when you can spend silly money on somthing that is already faster standard...."
You just joined that special club of people who diss micra modifiers...which i thought you were too
Its gaining the pleasure outa doing things to your car and getting reactions off people, when i had my k10, and put the 1.2 engine in (which had a few mods that you have mentioned) People were amazed by it, e.g. keeping up with GTI6's etc
o well
I've read if you get a side on crash, with a strut brace, then the force will go through it and take out the other side of the car. So it basically destroy's both sides of the car in a side on crash. Anyone wanna clarify?
Sammo, in the world of motoring, you measure Torque in Foot-pound. That is, the amount of work exerted onto an axis, through a foot long lever. Sort of ties in with mechanical advantage etc etc.
OP
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squarepants
Ex. Club Member
why iam i ''dissing'' the micra i never said it was crap...i just dont justify spending ££££'s on them...the top spec is only worth £1500 (tbh rather spend an extra £500 on buying an almera gti, rather than spending another £1500 making the micra faster) and you always lose money on cars, so why spend ££££'s when your gonna lose the money when you sell the car?
Antony
Ex. Club Member
because the whole point in most people on here having a micra is they didnt get them for £1500. they got them for £500-£1000 and cannot afford to run an almera GTI let alone Insure one or Tax one.
my 1.9 309GTI would be £1700 now with over £2000 insurance and very expensive tax. yet its still only got 130bhp.
my micra cost me £600, insurance is £345 a year, tax is £60 ish 6 months. but i have spent alot on my car. its unique and is a damned sight more entertaining to drive fast than any old pug.
thats the point. its yours. its making what you have better. i mean i could have gone without a car for 3 years and baught a mazda RX7 TypeR Bathurst edition with 300bhp and over 175mph top speed...... but why? i could never afford to rebuld it, i wouldnt be able to afford to keep refueling it and at the end of the day every man and his dog would want to race it...
my 1.9 309GTI would be £1700 now with over £2000 insurance and very expensive tax. yet its still only got 130bhp.
my micra cost me £600, insurance is £345 a year, tax is £60 ish 6 months. but i have spent alot on my car. its unique and is a damned sight more entertaining to drive fast than any old pug.
thats the point. its yours. its making what you have better. i mean i could have gone without a car for 3 years and baught a mazda RX7 TypeR Bathurst edition with 300bhp and over 175mph top speed...... but why? i could never afford to rebuld it, i wouldnt be able to afford to keep refueling it and at the end of the day every man and his dog would want to race it...
OP
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squarepants
Ex. Club Member
No one wants to race a Micra, because they know they'll win. But these things pull damn well for what they are. I've beaten fiesta's, new mini's, clio's, and others off the line in this thing. Sorta dies when you get to 4th gear though
ok but ive never said they are slow...
Tom Messy
Ex. Club Member
I second that! I was in a convoy with a pair of Corsas on the A14 the other night, and there was no way I could keep up. If I had my foot on the floor I could catch up, but they were just playing with me! lol
However, I was OK when we got onto country roads but hills were still a problem. Granted I had 4 people in the car though!
Anyways, I couldn't afford anything really except a Micra, and they're nice little cars with lots of character and seem easy to mod and work on.
nope..despite popular oppinion around the world (including a fair portion of the science community and (sadly) the SI definitions).....
Torque is Joules (Energy)
Power is Joules per Second ('rate' of use/transfer <or whatever> of energy)
it is a force acting on an axis, but iy's not "JUST" a force acting on an axis; thats just one part of what torque is...the other half isjust as critical and IS the difference between 'force' and 'energy'....."at a given distance from the axis" (newton-meters)...(Joules of energy)
...totally agree with you, its simply a measure of the Energy 'available' or 'transfered' at that instant in time(resulting in stored potential energy or kinetic energy depending on the amount of friction)
IMO: its the phrase "work done" (that is normally associated with linear Force x Distance) that causes confusion since it 'implies movement' compared with a force acting at right angles to a pivot
solarice
Ex. Club Member
i can say from experience, most of that stuff does work...granted my usual first test is less than scientific, as it involves grabbing the roof gutters and trying to wobble the car side to side but comparing it to standard theres next to no movement now (each part was usually added on its own, so kinda helped it show the differences).
While i agree modifying isnt the best financial investment (especially if buying new parts), its something i'll probably never stop doing and i can say i'll probs get back enough from selling on the parts when i stop playing with the micra for it still to make sense...after all how much money do you spend on magazines etc, items that you may only get one use from.
Ed and Crazyep82 i also agree with the K10 twist ...jacking up mine used to not only stop the doors closing but it used to also effect the rear boot aswell lol.
While i agree modifying isnt the best financial investment (especially if buying new parts), its something i'll probably never stop doing and i can say i'll probs get back enough from selling on the parts when i stop playing with the micra for it still to make sense...after all how much money do you spend on magazines etc, items that you may only get one use from.
Ed and Crazyep82 i also agree with the K10 twist
...jacking up mine used to not only stop the doors closing but it used to also effect the rear boot aswell lol.
Retepetsir
King of Subsonic
If done right they'll help boost the torque at the place you need it. Having my SR mapped whilst on a dyno meant that the length/size of the induction setup could be tuned to produce a nice amount of torque just where it's needed, around 2-2.5krpm
Ooooh.............an interesting post!
I agree on the ignition leads opinion, only going to make a difference if your OEM ones are shot.
Back boxes.......just a place to put a silencer......well unless your backbox on your K11 has a nest of mice in it......(well it happened to my mates Morris Minor!) haha!
Braided brakelines.........only fitted to my car due to the OEM ones becoming severely corroded on the front and having to be wrecked on the rear due to an axle re-build. So were replaced with stainless items, (maintenance reasons)......honestly not really noticed any improvement.
I feel the Whiteline anti-roll bar and castor kit post quite dissapointing to read. I have spent the last 2 years gradually upgrading the cars drivetrain as I go. I've been on various tracks from Brands Hatch which is VERY demanding on suspension to fast tracks such as Goodwood. I had the car setup properly to Whiteline's recommendations. Did you? or did you just bolt on and go by eye? After setting the car up, (which needs doing again thanks to a full front end strip down), the difference in driveability, (even on the street), was very noticeable and on the track this was emphasised even further.....as you get the opportunity to find the car's limits. The car sits flatter, holds tighter through bends and allows much more speed to be carried through corners. The standard setup understeers very early on and doesn't offer anywhere near the level of feedback it does when properly setup.
As for air filters, 'tuned or panel' is a bit vague. They only make a difference if the standard system poses a restriction and the K11's doesn't particularly cause problems for most people with the usual 'bolt-ons'. I would like to see the difference between a stock airbox, a panel filter and a so called 'tuned' intake. There would be far more benefit in completely re-designing the terrible inlet manifolds the CG series engines have been blessed with.....however that would cost considerably more than a £19.99 ebay special filter
At the end of the day, try not to buy something because someone has told you it's good or because an advert says so, or Max Power rates it. Reasearch, research and reasearch......decide if it is what you want and try to avoid bolting things on hoping they will make a difference. I've met plenty of people who've bought a load of gear, bolted it on, added up the collective power figures shown and ultimately thought it will add a genuine +25bhp!
Failing that simply ask, there are a lot of very knowleagable people on this forum, but because people keep covering the same ground over and over again, making the same mistakes as the last person.......trying to bodge things on a shoestring budget while telling everyone that they know better, it does get a tad dull and these people do take some pulling from the woodwork so to speak
nope..despite popular oppinion around the world (including a fair portion of the science community and (sadly) the SI definitions).....
Torque is Joules (Energy)
Power is Joules per Second ('rate' of use/transfer <or whatever> of energy)[/quote]
Joules is not the correct usage for Torqueas explained below; Quote Wikipedia:
The joule, which is the SI unit for energy or work, is also defined as 1 N m, but this unit is not used for torque. Since energy can be thought of as the result of "force dot distance", energy is always a scalar whereas torque is "force cross distance" and so is a (pseudo) vector-valued quantity. The dimensional equivalence of these units, of course, is not simply a coincidence: a torque of 1 N m applied through a full revolution will require an energy of exactly 2π joules.
Mathematically,
where
E is the energyτ is torqueθ is the angle moved, in radians.
Ed
Sammo.
Torque is the amount of force applied on an axis through rotation.
The Imperial measurment for this is Ib-Ft. That is, if you had a lever that was 1 foot in length, and you were using a force of one pound on the lever, then that would be a Ib-Ft of torque.
The Metric measurement is Nm, or Newton Metre. That is, if you had a lever of 1 metre, and pushed with a force of one newton, then you'd have 1NM of Torque.
Torque is the amount of force applied on an axis through rotation.
The Imperial measurment for this is Ib-Ft. That is, if you had a lever that was 1 foot in length, and you were using a force of one pound on the lever, then that would be a Ib-Ft of torque.
The Metric measurement is Nm, or Newton Metre. That is, if you had a lever of 1 metre, and pushed with a force of one newton, then you'd have 1NM of Torque.
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