First Coilpack CG13 Thread

[rlees85]

I see alot of people here are having their own micra progress threads, thought id start my own as the short-term plans i have for the car may intrest some of you!

Next weekend (hopefully) ill be taking my coilpack cg10de and with the help of mr. raceworx we'll be rebuilding it with the crank, rods and pistons* from a cg13.

* Not 100% whats what with the pistons yet, i may be doing myself favours by keeping the cg10 ones...

Will just be using the standard 1.0 ecu for now, and see how that copes with the fuelling and just cross the bridge when i get to it, will also be using the 1.0 gearbox/clutch/etc (as its the same box they use in the cg13s anyway, although i think the ratios may be slightly different).


Also attached are some pics of how the micra is currently looking, went abit mad with the ol' tint spray this weekend :blush:

'Ultra bright' 'xenon 100w' ebay crap fog light bulbs:

Blue led behind dash clock:
(Picture doesnt show it well but its a good mod for £1.70!)

And for an extra 5 bhp!

 

[nizzanz1]

cool. keep the 1.0 pistons otherwise you will loose compression, not good unless you plan to turbo. did you give up on finding a cga3de? a crank from that would see you more cc.

 

[rlees85]

thanks for the advice on the pistons, i will be n/a tuning for now rather then forced induction (too pricey!) lol.

finding a low-mileage cga3de within my price-range was abit too difficult, theres also other contraversial reasons why i decided going cg13 rather then cga.

Also tinted parts of the inside of the headlights, altho quite stupidly i used tinting spray rather then high-heat spray. It looks 'different' in different lights because of this (so its kinda-original! ) but i just hope it doesnt melt off from the heat of the lightbulbs.

Sorry about how image-intensive this thread is so far... lol :upside:

 

[nizzanz1]

theres also other contraversial reasons why i decided going cg13 rather then cga.

???

 

[rlees85]

im just not sure if the extra 3 or 4 bhp the cga gives is worth how much more it will cost to get the actual engine, and to get it in and running... thats all

 

[nizzanz1]

i think what your doing is more risky than dropping in a cga3de. but not stopping you doing what your doing. if your changing the crank though a 1.4 crank might be more worthwhile as you have the choice. but that still means finding a 1.4

 

[Craig]

Matt Humphris can supply you with a 1.4 crank, no idea on the cost however.

 

[Yom]

On the topic of cg13 vs cga3

I take it the cga3 crank gives it a longer stroke than the cg13...

I have details for compression, bore and stroke but not for what actually gives the CGA3 the extra stroke...

Anyhelp in filling in this slight void would be great... (Does anyone have measurements of the length of the CG13 conrods vs CGA3 conrods and also the differences in pistons (obviously not width-wise but height)?)

Cheers

 

[rlees85]

On the topic of cg13 vs cga3

I take it the cga3 crank gives it a longer stroke than the cg13...

I have details for compression, bore and stroke but not for what actually gives the CGA3 the extra stroke...

Anyhelp in filling in this slight void would be great... (Does anyone have measurements of the length of the CG13 conrods vs CGA3 conrods and also the differences in pistons (obviously not width-wise but height)?)

Cheers

the cga3de engine has definatly got a larger stroke (and bore) then a cg13de. unfortunatly thats all i know.

i definatly wont be using a cga3de crank either, sorry guys!

 

[Yom]

Has anyone actually put a CGA3 crank in a CG13?

I'm kinda suspect about the valve clearances as I understand the CG13 and CGA3 heads and cam profiles are definately different...

 

[Craig]

It is a commonly done mod in rally cars, but I believe that many of the better teams are dumpng the CG and swapping it forthe CGA.
I have seen dimensions for the CGa bore+stroke, but can't seem to find them now...

 

[Yom]

CG13DE bore x stroke = 71mm x 80.5mm = 1275cc (55kw, 106NM)
CGA3DE bore x stroke = 72mm x 82.8mm = 1348cc (60kw, 120NM)

What I'd like to know is how different are the crank profiles between the two motors, whats the length difference in the conrods, how high are the pistons and what are the standard valve/piston clearances.

 

[Raceworx]

dude need to speak ill catch you on msn later.. its not good

 

[nizzanz1]

CG10DE bore x stroke = 71mm x 63.0mm = 0998cc
CG13DE bore x stroke = 71mm x 80.5mm = 1275cc
CGA3DE bore x stroke = 72mm x 82.8mm = 1348cc

as we're kind of talking engines here can i ask if someone can work it out what is the standard gasket thickness when it makes comression of 9.5 so that when you put in a 0.7mm gasket it gives a compression of 10.1....

 

[Craig]

Yes, give me 15 mins

Ok, took me longer that 15 mins, in fact I gave up and went on to do some revision, but I could do it, if you make the assumption thatthe piston at TDC is level with teh top of the cylinder head and that the piston is also flat top (1l is not an assumption therefore ) then the comp ratio can be worked out by dividing the volume within the head and that within the headgasket and finally the volume of the path that the piston travels (bore area x stroke) by the volume within the head and also that of the headgasket, you can work out the comp ratio.
If you know the h.gasket thickness and also the comp. ration, then you can work backwards to find the estimation forthe head volume.
Once you have all this lovely stuff, you have to work out what volume is within the headgasket by substituting the new values for head volume, comp. ratio and also volume at BTC.
If that makes any sense I will be mighty impressed lol

 

[rlees85]

ok this project is off, and me posting this about 1 day after i made the thread i know is going to make me look like some idiot who cant make up their mind.

the reason i am no longer doing this is unforseen circumstances that have unfortunatly prevented raceworx from being able to help me with the project (not his fault at all tho!! ).. and i dont have the tools or knowledge/experiance to rebuild an engine by myself.

as it stands, im looking for prices from other people to help me with the current project or looking to get a cga3de, as dropping one straight in would be much easier then rebuilding a whole engine, its just finding one thats a mission.

an absolue stunner of a cga3de came up in ebay a couple of weeks ago, ive emailed the seller asking if his shifted the engine or not yet, and if he hasnt im going to go for it, providing i can shift this cg13 i got lying around!

 

[Craig]

Engine rebuilding is not that hard, just undo and redo bolts

 

[Ed]

lol it helps if you know a little more than that

 

[Craig]

Hehe 'helps' let's face it, it is not rocket science, hell rocket science itself is not that hard, hydrogen+oxygen=rocket to the moon, the hard part is gyro's trajectory, strapping the monkeys into their seats....

 

[Ed]

lol ok then.

 

[Raceworx]

sory again dude.. was really #### cercumnstances!! but space is the key thing and the time to do it methodicly..

 

[rlees85]

i know if i cant sell the engine, and if my brother lets me borrow his old 1.1 fiesta then i might have a go at it myself

would the engine actually need to be removed from the car to be able to do this?

 

[Craig]

You could take the engine out part by part, it would be a bit of extra hassle on rebuild but definately do-able

 

[rlees85]

well ive ordered a haynes - so ill have a read of that, and ill probably give raceworx a load've hassle on msn jks. then ill probably give it a go... y not? if i blow it up ill jus get another cg10 (or cga3 if one comes up ) and plonk it in

 

[Yom]

I pulled apart an SR20DE with a basic socket set and breaker bar. I reassembled it with the same socket set and a torque wrench I borrowed.

It worked fine... I think i got the cam timing wrong though. It had no power until 4500rpm . Not bad for a first time working from the torque specifications I found & photocopied in an american b13 manual at the local library.

Point is, I did it with zero experience. Given the right rescources, I think anyone can. Whether or not it works afterwards though, oh well.

 

[rlees85]

lol always re-assuring. got my gear oil sorted today so least thats out the way, altho my dads gna give me a #######ing becuase i got it on his drive, i really thought i had cleaned it aswell.. oops!

just had my mum on the phone "THERE IS NO WAY YOUR RE-BUILDING THE ENGINE FROM THAT CAR!"... aint parents charming ay? well tis my car n my engine now so i do what i like

if it all goes love lumps up its not like cg10s are expensive!

 

[mph]

We use the crank and rods from the CGA3 engine in our CG13 block on the rally cars. It gives you a 1312cc engine, you just have to check the valve to piston cleanance. We used Nismo pistons and had to machine these down to get the compression ratio to 11.5:1With lost of other mods the engine will develope between 118 and 125bhp at the flywheel.

 

[rlees85]

i think im going to drop a cga3de straight in anyway, soon as i find one and have some more money available. i dont have any room to do a full rebuild + ive been put off the idea by people saying "ill never be able to do it". the cg13de engine i had is provisionally sold at the minute

 

[NeX]

We use the crank and rods from the CGA3 engine in our CG13 block on the rally cars. It gives you a 1312cc engine, you just have to check the valve to piston cleanance. We used Nismo pistons and had to machine these down to get the compression ratio to 11.5:1With lost of other mods the engine will develope between 118 and 125bhp at the flywheel.

ooh that interesting. i'm sure with a bit of modding you could get it up to a 1.4 almost

are the CGA3 con rods up to the extra power?