Coolant Issue

eiregti

eiregti

So tonight I picked up my K11 and when pulled in about 10 mins after departing I noticed the coolant gauge hadn't moved an inch. So whilst pulled in I was on the phone to a friend when I noticed the fan hadn't engaged after about 10 - 15 mins and then some steam started to come from the expansion tank.

I haven't had a chance to start looking into it yet as I haven't gotten home yet but after a while driving I pulled in to check the coolant again and it was fine so my thinking is it's boiling due to no fan considering it cooled after a short drive.

Where would be best to start? Either coolant sensors? Fan? Gauge?



Also, any tips to extract half a key from an ignition? It's a March so I know for fact that the ignition and door barrels are different from domestic models so changing won't be as easily done

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earthing the coolant sensor would diagnose any sensor/gauge fault (it should shoot to hot) and you can remove the inner barrel on most ign locks
 
So just just a wire from one of terminals directly to the block to earth it, is it frank?

Is there any way to tell which of the sensors is ecu or temp gauge?
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Closer look it's a domestic engine in an import shell, has anyone pin outs for both March and micra engine looms? Have a feeling that's what's causing the issue, March ecu with micra engine and loom

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Yeah I noticed that, i'll sus it out tomorrow when I have light to go back at it. Gearbox and driver mount weren't even threaded through , just half the way through the mounts. Proper lemon of a car

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Okay swapped out the single wire sensor for a known working sensor with no change. Shorted the wire like Frank said and gauge shot up. Thought maybe it was the plug for the sensor so chopped it off and fitted a new one, still nothing.

Fault code read throws up code 13 so presume that relates to the 2 wire sensor so I'll get that replaced during the week and see if it helps and give the fan a look over too


In other news managed to sort this so hopefully get a key cut tomorrow
jy6umuje.jpg

notice the already thin pliers ground down to give more room in the ignition :D

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Okay so, swapped all coolant sensors with different units again, checked for continuity between the plug and the temperature gauge as well as between the coolant sensor and the ECU and there are no breaks in the circuit.

Is there something else I'm missing that would be causing the car to throw fault codes

11
13
21

I think maybe 11 and 21 are related? Either way a new distributor will be gotten and tested also.

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eiregti said:
Okay so, swapped all coolant sensors with different units again, checked for continuity between the plug and the temperature gauge as well as between the coolant sensor and the ECU and there are no breaks in the circuit.

Is there something else I'm missing that would be causing the car to throw fault codes

11
13
21

I think maybe 11 and 21 are related? Either way a new distributor will be gotten and tested also.

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Click to expand...
did you clear the codes and re-read ?
 
Again, gent as ever frank, i'll give it a go and report back because failing this, I really don't know. Looking very much like I'll need a new fan out of this anyway

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the pdf download manual says something about the rad fan being over-ridden by the aircon and speed sensor (fuel and emissions control pdf, section ef and ec 22)
 
Okay cleared codes by disconnecting the battery for 10 mins and pumped the brakes a few time to clear any charge that may be left. Did another fault code check and all that shows up now is 12 and 13 (MAF and temp sensor)

I threw some power onto the fan also and it spun up freely. Went on the hunt for fuses that may be gone with the help of the Haynes and one thing that I noticed that's different between micra and March is there is no 65a main fuse and also no fan control fuse like Haynes list.


Not sure what you are getting at with the last point frank, but if it has got something to do with air con it might be worth noting that whoever did the swap removed all air con bits

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on section 22 of the pdf manual mate, it says the radfan control is integrated with the speed sensor and aircon signals (ie if the speed is over a certain mph the fan wont come on, and aircon on or off too) so the aircon wiring might be over-riding the fan control ?
 
Now I get ya, I'm going to have to have a look over the bay tomorrow for any residual wiring off the air con system which may be causing the error because I think it's fair to say I've ruled out pretty much everything else ha

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Also worth mentioning I guess is when I bought the car the check engine light was off but since investigating all of this stuff it started.

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Okay so another day hunting

Throttle body changed so that cleared code 12 so all that is left is 13(coolant sensor error)

Removed any air con related bits I could see right down to the relay and fuse, checked for any damaged wiring or plugs that may be left. All that was okay.

Checked continuity between relay and fan also and checked relay was operational. One thing noted was there was no power being fed to the coil pole of the fan relay which there should be? Is there a separate fuse or relay for the feed to relay power source or does the ECU provide the 12v supply to there?

Like mentioned in my last post, this all started after I got the car and the only other thing that was altered since getting the car was my friend playing with wiring behind the stereo. Something must have helped because once I undid all the wiring because on a short drive the EM light flickered. So can anyone tell me where all these wires go or if they're meant to be bridged at all?

egejy8u8.jpg


beve3yru.jpg


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frank said:
going by the no-nats diag, the fan relay should be live via a fuse, and signaled via earth from the ecu
Click to expand...

Yeah I noticed the pinout diagram mentioned that pin 9 is the coolant fan relay pin , so the fact there was no power to the relay at all is correct and that the ECU has a switched earth to supply 12v to the coil?

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eiregti said:
Yeah I noticed the pinout diagram mentioned that pin 9 is the coolant fan relay pin , so the fact there was no power to the relay at all is correct and that the ECU has a switched earth to supply 12v to the coil?

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Click to expand...
yes my understanding is that the live is constant, and the earth is what is switched :)
 
Ah that would make sense, thought it would be wrong that the ecu would be supplying a switched 12v supply to the fan relay...... so this leaves me back at square one again for now

Seems the wiring behind the dash holds the key to the dash light being illuminated constantly

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You can switch the fan on at anytime, regardless of ECU, key settings as it is just the ECU switching to earth that switches the relay. I have a overide switch on the rally car which also earths the feed via a switch which allows me to switch on the fan when needed i.e. ideal for an end of stage cool down.
 
This was something I had planned as a temporary solution but considering I've a broken temp gauge on the dash I can't even tell if it's at temp/below temp/above temp etc I think I read about you hardwiring a fan switch somewhere on here in the last few days whilst digging through the archive, it's what spurred the idea originally

Could a bad earth on the fan switch cause it to not work? Just noticed the earth for the fan is behind passo headlight, if this was rusted through or damaged it wouldn't complete the circuit?

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I traced the wires behind the stereo also and only one of them I don't know it's origins. Most are speakers/tweeters despite the car coming from factory without them

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Okay so nearly at my wits end with this coolant issue, behind stereo lead to nothing just exposed switched live wires which are now covered over.

Called in my dad's help for an hour or two this evening. Ran through everything again, checked the thermistor type sensor, reading was fine, resistance dropped as temp went up, had a direct 5v to the plug. I already checked the wires for continuity to the ecu plug so that's all good. Relay checked AGAIN, that's fine.

STILL GETTING A WARNING LIGHT ON THE DASH

My dad seems more concerned about the fan not switching but if there is a problem with the coolant circuit then the ecu won't switch the fan either way so that's taking priority.


Has ANYONE got any other things I can check? And yeah, I checked the coolant levels too and they're all at the correct levels

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Also believe my thermostat is stuck closed but can't see this throwing the check engine light On.

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i had problems after fitting a japspec engine once, the temp gauge would shoot up after about 2 mins
somehow cured by fitting uk spec temp sensors (different colour iirc)
 
frank said:
i had problems after fitting a japspec engine once, the temp gauge would shoot up after about 2 mins
somehow cured by fitting uk spec temp sensors (different colour iirc)
Click to expand...

Hmmmm I wonder if this is the case also, the engine retained all the original wiring it seems as well as ECU (hasn't been touched in a loooong time because I found a few funky bits of Japanese fliers and the likes ;) ) but has an Irish engine fitted. I know this can be an issue with the Srxxve engines running on 20de ECUs

Luckily I may have 16ve coolant sensors in the parts bins, hopefully they will match the original cg10 march sensors

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Excuse the crude snapchat picture/drawings. These are the spare sensors I have in the parts bin. The K11 sensors are the ones to come out of the car originally.

pezu5a6y.jpg


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Okay swapped in Japanese sensors to see if they want to play ball and no dice it seems, same old story driving to college this morning

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frank said:
on section 22 of the pdf manual mate, it says the radfan control is integrated with the speed sensor and aircon signals (ie if the speed is over a certain mph the fan wont come on, and aircon on or off too) so the aircon wiring might be over-riding the fan control ?
Click to expand...

Hey frank have you a link to the K11 fsm?

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Finally cleared! Still have no fan but one step at a time.

For anyone interested I'm not entirely sure what I did, the biggest thing I did this morning was took the ecu out again, used the screw on top to check fault codes (rather than a paperclip across diagnostic port) and checked that way, cleared it again, ran the lambda test while it was at it and started up again and it was finally clear.

Perhaps I might not have cleared the codes correctly earlier I'm not sure




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Going back to this. Does anyone know if the reverse/neutral sensors would be tied in with the fan control? only this evening after nearly 3 weeks of ownership that the reverse lights don't work, went to change them and bulbs are fine so has me thinking either damaged wires or else unplugged sensor causing the lights not to work..... and if the neutral sensor is tied in with the fan maybe that's why it won't activate

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Following on from this..... Gear location switch needs replacing, neutral is fine though just reverse that's faulty. So apparently neutral switch isn't connected to the fan circuit...

Judging by the price of the new box though might just get another gearbox with one that works. Better still might just get a face lift model one seeing as I'm going to need to do the clutch as well. May just go the whole hog

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