5th injector setup

[CMF_Michiel]

Because my turbo setup runs to lean on full boost (0,5 bar) I've decided to make a 5th injector setup.
But after I inspected the MAF of the K11 I was wondering if I made the right choice for the injector...

I took a piece of piping and I mounted the injector on it, but in the MAF itself there is a little sensor just in the middle between the throttle valve and the top where the piping is connected.

I was wondering, can it do any damage if the petrol hits that little sensor?
Where did some of the other turbo K11 owners mount the 5th injector or what is the best place?

Thanks!

 

[CMF_fred]

from memory, snoopie's 5th injector is just after the throttle body in the manifold?

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Its in the throttle body housing after the airflow meter & before the butterfly. The system was originally done by white knight. The injector is a toyota (camry sv21 I think). It works fine on low boost system (up to 7psi). Im making 89kw atw @7psi.

You dont wont fuel hitting the airflow sensor, as it can give a false reading.

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Cool, more random photos. It kind of like a lucky dip, you never know which photo will be attached to your post

 

[CMF_Family Hack]

I will take a picture this weekend where Hack has its 5th. injector mounted at the back of the throttle body so you can see clearly.It is mounted below the sensor at the back of the throttle body.How are you going to control the extra injector? Hack uses a simple Haltec ECU which monitors the air fuel ratio and cuts in the 5th imnjector when air/fuel ratio starts to run lean. This way you are only using it when needed . Hack has run this system for 50,000 kl without any problems and if you look at Hacks details under Hot Micras you will see from the dyno graph air/fuel ratio is spot on right through the rev/boost range.

 

[CMF_Family Hack]

Spot on Snoopy. You and I have exactly the same boost/ Kws.

 

[CMF_Michiel]

I'm controlling the injector with a small pressuresensor. The sensor is connected to the vacuum/boost hose that is also connected to the blow-off. When the pressuresensor reads for example 1 psi positive pressure, the sensor sends a signal that opens the injector and extra petrol is injected.

When the injector opens the engine is running too rich, so at this point my Apexi SAFC is going to correct the standard injectors.
I tested this at home with a test setup. I just need some good place to place my extra injector.

Does it make any difference if I mount the injector above or under the throttle-valve?

I would appreciate if you have a picture with the injector mounted.

Thanks

 

[CMF_Ed]

That's really not a nice way to do this. Why don't you sell the SAFC and do it properly with an e-manage? These kind of bodges will only end up in tears.

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Ed WROTE:

"That's really not a nice way to do this. Why don't you sell the SAFC and do it properly with an e-manage? These kind of bodges will only end up in tears.

I would hardly call an e-manage doing it properly. My 'bodge' has done over 15,000kms without a problem (except for a cracked manifold) & this is on an engine that has just clicked onto 200,000kms. My 5th injector is controlled by an old haltech f5.

Family hack is using the same system, also without problems. It just comes down to making sure the tune is safe.

While I will state that full engine management would be far better & if you can afford it I would advise it, 5th injector systems do work in low boost applications (upto 7psi)

 

[CMF_Yom]

Ed was referring to the post above yours by Michiel who appears to be just sending some power to the 5th injector when positive boost is detected.

 

[CMF_Ed]

SAFC cannot control ignition timing, E-manage can. When you suddenly tell your SAFC to pull out a pile of fuel your ignition timing is going to ADVANCE. Not only that the SAFC is a two dimensional system which makes life even less refined.

On an engine with standard compression internals and a fixed flow 5th injector, this really is not a nice compromise.
You can get e-manage for the price of the SAFC, it will also run the 5th injector, and it will do this without messing with the timing at all. (provided that you don't change injectors of AFM) but this can be easily corrected in the mapping anyway. It is a perfectly acceptable way of doing things right since you maintain CONTROL over everything - that is what is important here. Your room for mistakes are small, why make life harder for yourself.

 

[CMF_Michiel]

Thanks for the replies.

The reason I wanted the 5th injector in the first place was when I had replaced my standard 1.3 injectors for 1.6 injectors, at boost the car was running fine. But when the engine is running idle, it was running too rich and the car almost stall when slowly accelerating.

When I bought the SAFC the e-manage was still very expensive, also because only a few people in Holland could deliver it and they didn't want want to install it on a K11 or asked almost 1000 euros for it.

I'm planning to only run at low boost, maybe later next year other pistons to lower compression.

Do you guys have any advise for me for the injection system?
Also, is installing an e-manage the same difficulty as an SAFC and is mapping it doable for an experienced DIYer?

 

[CMF_Ed]

If you can play with the S-AFC you'll be fine with the e-manage, and in its simple form its just the same connections (airflow rpm and throttle + power) you don't HAVE to use the ignition and Fuel harnesses, but if your going to be boosting you will definitely want the fuel and ignition harnesses then, and probably the boost sensor. Again its no big deal to fit. I wish I could get away charging 1000 euros to fit one!!!!!!!!! Drive to England for a holiday (haha) and I'll fit it for you!!

If your going to be looking for pistons let me know. I have just started having CG13DE low 8.0:1 and they can use the standard conrods.

Ed

 

[CMF_Bushido]

Just came across this on yahoo.jp
http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g55003731
5th injector is mounted just before the throttle body.

 

[CMF_Bushido]

2

 

[CMF_Bushido]

3

 

[smidge]

anyone got any pics of these hiding away anywhere?

man i wish this forum had auto reply notifications right about now, that would wake all the old people up and get them to re-post!

 

[CMF_jaxx]

im running an E-manage with 2 additional GTO injectors. people clearly have different opinions and preferences about what setup to use, but lest it does the job and does it well whos to judge eh.