Wanted Turbo Kit for AirCon Car

CMF_PeterB

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Hi Ladies & Gents
I am am new to the site and I have found it very interesting ,very practical and helpful...
I was just looking at the "Family Hack" and I was wanting to know where I can get a hold of a Kit or just the mainfold to complete this conversion...Cheers Peter

 

CMF_mipcar

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Hi Peter,
I now own "Family Hack". The previous owner (Dark Side) would be more informed then me but I'll try to help.
The turbo is a Garrett T25 and the intercooler is from an RX7. The mounting for the intercooler is very simple.
A Haltech unit mounted in the passenger footwell controls a 5th Micra injecter, tapped into the throttle body.

The Turbo sits high up in the engine bay over the alternator.

The biggest issue is that it is now very hard to get to the oil dipstick. you can only do it when everything is cold and even then it's a fiddly job. I am trying to make up an extension for it.

I think all the piping was custom made to fit the car.

Hope this helps.

Mychael
 

CMF_Yom

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Hi Peter,

To find a kit which will suit a micra with aircon you will have to look overseas.

The Japanese are great at making things fit into the impossible. :)

I would suggest the Yahoo Japan auctions. :)

Cheers
 

CMF_jay85

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hi mate there is actually a kit floating around on ebay at the moment that suits the micra and you get to keep you air con... it comes with a manifold, turbo, fmic, and dump pipe. you will still need a computer to run it and also the exhaust but the main stuff is there.. it is also based out of australia
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Nissan-Micra...ryZ43807QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

TD04 15G Turbo charger .

Aluminium Intercooler 470mmx 160mmx 55mm

Polished Aluminium Piping.

ALL Clamps,Gaskets,Screws,Washers,Fittings.

Cast Exhaust manifold .

Down Pipe,

38mm Waste gate.

Blow off Valve.

High Volume Air Filter.

Boost gauge.

Braided oil feed lines,

Oil return lines,

All installation instructions.
 

CMF_jay85

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a pic of the kit
 

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CMF_JKL

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Isn't that Kit like 5$ grand???
Buy a Mig for $300-$400 off ebay and make your own basic Log type manifold. Liverpool Exhaust mail out Flange plates, mandrels, stove pipe etc. Cost you $150-$200 in Materials.
Then you can spend your money on important bits like Brake and Suspension upgrades.
Jaycar do a piggy back sytem for your computer, so you can run more than 1 bar.
$5 Grand??? You could get rods and pistons decompression plate as well...
 

CMF_jay85

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yeh i know it is $$$$ isnt it... but it has a few things going for it.. it is a kit and there isnt much more to buy... its all new and it will give that factory look with the cast manifold. which would look cool.
not many people can weld either... or have the skills and time to put it together without help. (not nocking em though)

but def not worth the money.
 

CMF_Yom

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Guys.. Forget about doing turbo on the cheap.

Its not possible.

Realistically expect to spend between $3000 and $5000 for a turbo setup that will work properly.

Unless you're *really* DIY savvy - in which case you might save $500 to $1000 on labour.

Cheers
 

CMF_JKL

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$5k for that bolt on kit is a joke.
Yeah, nice polished alloy bends and silicone. Sure... a cast exhaust manifold, but on a small 4 like the Micra engine, tuned length Exhaust manifolds will result in only slightly improved performance and noticable only on the more modified engines.
I really thing the whole job of a basic bolt on system with injection/ecu mods and FMIC can be done for about $2k. I'll start taking some pics tomorrow and documant the whole process and see where we end up.

 

CMF_Yom

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That picture is NOT what you get. I can say with full confidence that kit shown there will NOT fit a CG13DE yet alone into a micra.

I can't say any more about the kit because I haven't seen the real thing - again, that picture is simply a display pic - it is not what you're actually getting for your money. It could be poor value for $5000 but it *could* be good value. But with a stock, untouched from the factory TD04L 15G its most likely not very good value for money at all. A stock TD04L 15G is NOT the ideal turbo for a 1.3L 4 stroke piston pumper.

Go for your life and see if you can do it for under $2000. I bet you can't. Not properly anyway.

Cheers
 

CMF_JKL

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Well lets see then. I'm up for it.
Its handy having my own workshop. Im off to a supplier tomorrow morning, for my flange plates, mandrels and stove pipe. Quoted $180 over the phone including 2x Engine Exhaust manifold Falnge plates.-I'll make up 2 manifolds this week, as I have a couple of options for choice of turbo, already in my stock.
Pulled the gearbox out today and striped it. Replacing the bearings. Cost me $110 for bearings from CBC. Syncro's hubs and sleeves are all good. I sent the Flywhel away and will have as much weight machined out as possible, and then balanced.
Im watching 2 intercoolers that I expect to get one of them for about $240.
I'll take some photos tomorrow and do this. $2K is my target.
 

CMF_JKL

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I'll make up the first 2. Ill post pics and if interested we will go from there. But yes ill make up a few of these if all goes well.
Im making to suit Air Cond models. PM me next week.
Ill be using a KKK unit, standard form from an 02 Audi A3. Not a big turbo and if you have ever driven an Audi Turbo, the boost comes in very low and feels quite constant. KKK design there turbine wheels for low revs and a fairly constant boost.
Some will feel with the Nissan engine 500cc smaller it may be a bit large, but with boost coming on so low in revs on the KKK units I think it should work well. I also have a complete n12 Exa Turbo/housing and Dump, and will wait and see about that one. With the Jap turbo's turbine design you find boost hits later and harder.
 

CMF_Yom

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The standard little K03 from an A3 isn't a bad base. nice and simple 3 bolt flanges too.

You will have fun slotting a FMIC in with a Nissan aircon setup. A rather thin core is required even with the deeper super s front bar - I am not planning on cutting anything though.

What are you planning with management? The Jaycar DFA will not do the job you're asking of it. You will need more fuel. Just putting GA15 or GA16 injectors into it is not going to be sufficient. So you'll be looking at a custom fuel rail before you know it.
 

CMF_ed.

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Under 2k for a DIY jobby will be interesting. Hope your welds hold up.

T25 brand new will set you over 2k LOL

TD04 15G in that kit is nice and small and would suit the CG13 nicely IMO.
 

CMF_JKL

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Yom WROTE:

"The standard little K03 from an A3 isn't a bad base. nice and simple 3 bolt flanges too.<BR><BR>You will have fun slotting a FMIC in with a Nissan aircon setup. A rather thin core is required even with the deeper super s front bar - I am not planning on cutting anything though.<BR><BR>What are you planning with management? The Jaycar DFA will not do the job you're asking of it. You will need more fuel. Just putting GA15 or GA16 injectors into it is not going to be sufficient. So you'll be looking at a custom fuel rail before you know it.

Ive been looking at 3.8L Commodore injectors and pump, today actually. I'm not too worried about the custom Fuel Rail but everywhere I look I see potential. I have a fairly good stock of engines and parts.
I was considering running a single high flow injector with control coming from a Micro Fueler but I've also had moderate success with Haltec Sytems and can get a good price here. Cost will blow out if I have to run aftermarket engine management.
Family hack has a simmilar set up, to a high boost commodore I built some time ago. It would be good to get away with a simple variation of this set-up.
I ordered a 1.2mm solid decompression plate today and will opt for this simple and cost effective method rather than pistons etc.
I also had the flywheel lightened and balanced. The gearbox is back together and goes in tomorrow morning.

Yom.. are you familiar with the Jaycar product? Why would you say its not suitable? Cheers.

Heres a B4 shot of the Micra.
 

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CMF_Yom

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What do you mean? Its an interceptor adjuster. A basic secondary air fuel controller. Its not really meant for strap on forced induction setups.
I mean you can use it...You can easily adjust the new injectors to run the engine fine while off boost, but what about when there's more than 4psi being crammed into the cylinders? Alternatively you could tune it to run fine on full boost. But what about when there's no load on the engine? There's just not enough tuning scope for the DFA to do the intended task being asked of it here - so you'll end up with a dodgey tune somewhere in your rev range. Many people have tried, and while a few patient souls can get it driveable and safe under full load/throttle/boost, there's always driveability problems when you're not upping it. (and believe me you do not want to be upping it constantly - the standard micra gearbox and CV's will NOT hold up with the extra torque. They're pathetic little things designed for low torque.

Anyway If you want to go higher flowing injector route (imo, superior to 5th injector), go for a decent piggyback like an Emanage. They're everywhere, they're cheap, they're proven and they'll do the job.
 

smidge

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watching this with much interest... exhaust manifold is my first port of call... so if you're making a few up i'll add myself to the list (Easier than more of us doing our own R&D

i don't really care what brand/model turbo to be honest at this stage

my budgets about the same, the tuning/ecu side of it won't be a problem for me so i'll save a bit of cash there that i'll lose in some fabrication costs
 

CMF_ed.

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JKL WROTE:

I also had the flywheel lightened and balanced.

How much and where did you get it done?
Thanks, Ed

fred WROTE:

"i run a DFA, it adjusts the AFM signal which sensors engine load, so I would have thought that it is very suitable to any setup, including turbo.

What happens when you run outside the efficiency of the AFM?
 

CMF_Yom

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ed. WROTE:
fred WROTE:<BR><BR>"i run a DFA, it adjusts the AFM signal which sensors engine load, so I would have thought that it is very suitable to any setup, including turbo. "</DIV><BR><BR>What happens when you run outside the efficiency of the AFM?

Or when the signals you're adjusting from the AFM go outside the maps of the standard ECU? The resolution of the standard ecu isn't infinite.
 

CMF_fred

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well, I'm no genius but running outside the efficency of the AFM doesn't make sense so I assume what if the amount of air goes above the signal that the AFm can provide? when I get to that situation I'll just add a larger AFm and remap it. Sorry, yom but an adjuster can't go outside the maps of the standard ecu since that's the whole point of an adjuster. i mean larger injectors need to be run at a lower duty cycle the adjuster provides that as far as the ecu is concerned it doesn't know it has large injectors. also the resolution of the standard ecu isn't infinite.... niether is any ecu and if running in closed loop the ecu is fiddling the a/f all over the place anywho, its only with open circuit (full throttle) that the ecu and the DFA use a map for fuel. the dfa has 128 load points. Hay, I'm not saying anyother system is worst or better, probably the microtech would be better but only only spent $80 on the DFA and $60 for the display, built it myself in a night and took 15min to install after testing. and i can adjust fuel levels on the fly. eventually i'll prpbably get a stand alone system but this will do especially with the other jaycar kits (progammable ignition with knock retard) not being arguementative just giving info as I know it....
 

CMF_Yom

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Yeh.. I don't think you would see too much of a problem with low boost. But the more boost you run, the more changes have to be made to the standard DE fuel maps. And this is where the DFA will start to show its shortcommings.

I found a nice post on the Pulsar group from one guy who started with a DFA and went to an emanage a few weeks after he completed his GA16DE + T conversion.

About the unit there good but to a point. I found that when i was using it it one of the biggest problems with my setup was that it only works on a 2d plane. Ie for every voltage input it see's from the afm it can only alter this up or down. So if 3 volts comes in it can bump it up by up to 50% or down by up to 50%

Where as compared to say the e-manage, the e-manage works on a 3d map where it takes rpm and throttle position and from there you adjust the afm voltage, so at say 3500rpm with the e-manage you can have 16 different points of fuel adjustment depending on the throttle position. So for a car with a 7500rpm rev limit you have 240 points of adjustment.

What this means in real world terms is that you can tune the e-manage for all different types of load situations be it part throttle or full throttle, whilst with the dfa you cant. For me with a de+t conversion this meant that when i had the DFA i had a few flat spots when not at full throttle because too much fuel was going in.

This in mind i think you would only see these kinds of problems with a de+t conversion running a DFA because the mapping needs to be so different to factory DE mapping.

The other downside is the lack of ignition timing control. As such if your doing say a de+t you need to wind back the timing a bit to stop detonation when your on boost whilst with the E-manage you again have a 3d load map that you can adjust your ignition timing to suit.

All up if you dont need to make radical changes you should be alright. About nearly blowing up your friends car CTN i dont believe it. Either the tuner had no idea what he was doing or your friend didnt build the unit right. My car was running very safe just quite rich at some load points off boost.

Hope that all makes some sense!

Also read this article on autospeed which covers some of the pros and cons without any noticeable bias.. And note the engine bay in the picture hehe :) : http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_3045/article.html

BY all means try the DFA to start with - its not like you're going to lose out on it if you decide its not adequate for your application. They always fetch good money when assembled and working!
 

smidge

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so fred the DFA allowed you to run bigger injectors with no major issues?

this is a bit of an issue cause we are talking a jaycar kit that costs me (staff price..) next to nothing to build

or an emanage, also at cost price, is gonna cost at LEAST ten times more than a DFA

and i'm talking a 6-7psi intercooled setup tops
 

CMF_ed.

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smidge WROTE:

"so fred the DFA allowed you to run bigger injectors with no major issues?

this is a bit of an issue cause we are talking a jaycar kit that costs me (staff price..) next to nothing to build

or an emanage, also at cost price, is gonna cost at LEAST ten times more than a DFA

and i'm talking a 6-7psi intercooled setup tops

Do it once, do it right.
 

CMF_fred

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thanks yom... Like I said it'll get me started and with the ignition system it will be good for a low psi set up... don't plan any more than 7psi, so jaycar stuff will be ok, and if it isn't I haven't lost a limb in outlay..... Running bigger injectors was a breeze, follow the instructions and be careful.
 

CMF_JKL

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Flywheel didn't come back today. Should be tomorrow. About $120 for some serious fat burning and a balance. Will post the pics tomorrow night for those interested in flywheel setup.
smidge WROTE:

"watching this with much interest... exhaust manifold is my first port of call... so if you're making a few up i'll add myself to the list (Easier than more of us doing our own R&amp;D<BR><BR>i don't really care what brand/model turbo to be honest at this stage<BR><BR>my budgets about the same, the tuning/ecu side of it won't be a problem for me so i'll save a bit of cash there that i'll lose in some fabrication costs

No probs.. will let you know over the next couple of days.. Hope to make up a couple. Will make a blank manifold, just waiting for the flangplate to suit your turbo choice.
smidge WROTE:

"so fred the DFA allowed you to run bigger injectors with no major issues?<BR><BR>this is a bit of an issue cause we are talking a jaycar kit that costs me (staff price..) next to nothing to build<BR><BR>or an emanage, also at cost price, is gonna cost at LEAST ten times more than a DFA<BR><BR>and i'm talking a 6-7psi intercooled setup tops

Smidge.. can you PM me your number... A few questions about the DFA if you can help. Cheers.
 

smidge

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hey mate, emails the best bet anyways as i can get to it anytime, aren't always around a phone.. can organise a time to call over the email anyways!

[email protected]

can help with with a few assmebly details but not so much on tuning, haven't had a car yet that it would be suitable on...

thats why the micra's gonna be a barrel of fun... even 10-15% more power with a turbos gonna be worth it just in the enjoyment of getting it all going...

and bugger spending big bucks, if i wanted to do that i'd just sell the micra and drive the awd twin turbo suby!
 

CMF_fred

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I can give up my DFA map if it will be of benefit? take note that I run GA Tb and primera injectors with a lighter than stock flywheel so might have to change some numbers but it will get you in the ball park.
 

CMF_ed.

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JKL WROTE:

"Flywheel didn't come back today. Should be tomorrow. About $120 for some serious fat burning and a balance. Will post the pics tomorrow night for those interested in flywheel setup.

That would be appreciated :)
 
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