Starting Problems...

odd_ball

odd_ball

This has happened to me twice now... The problem the same both times. Basically, for no reason, the car decides not to start. I have power, and the engine is trying to turn, but it won't. The first time it happened was quite late in the evening and the car hadn't been used all day, I left it and it started fine the next day.

Same story this week, came home from work Tuesday morning, came to use the car again Wednesday day... wouldn't start. Oddly though, same trouble today too...

Couldn't think what to do so took the spark plugs out, which were all wet and black on the ends, so gave them a clean with wire wool and hey presto, she fired into life!... Worrying thing is the plugs have only been in about 2 months, when I last serviced her? Can't remember if the last time she wouldn't start was before or after service, but I'm tempted to say before?

The old plugs I took out were black, and the contacts had gone white on all of them, but I can't be sure how long they were in?

I have noticed of late that her power is quite a bit off, could this be a related issue? Wet black plugs mean an oil rich mix don't they? How do you adjust this?

A bit annoyed as they're only 2months old. Wanted Super 4s but couldn't get them anywhere, so was advised to buy these instead. Just as good they said, should've smelt a rat when the Super 4s are like £25 a set and these were £2 each, but I'd seen packs of NGK for £20, so just assumed they were the same, just alot better priced... They're NGK 6953 BKR5E-11

Any advice? Do you think the stating/power problem is linked to the plugs?
 
Got trouble starting myself. Rest is fine. I was thinking I should change the spark plugs as I recently bought the care and who knows how long since they were replaced...

This page from NGK shows the one you got: http://www.ngkpartfinder.co.uk/car_commercial_extra.php?id=6447
They are £10 on eby (for the set). The BKR5EIX-11 version are about £30 because they are the Iridium ones.

Why were you after the Bosch Super 4s? Eurocarparts sell Bosch Super 4 for £13 a set. I do not know if they are the same (the "s" is missing from the end).

However, £25 seems overpriced with so many alternatives at around £10 for a set of 4.
 
No, don't touch the gas. However, I noticed that if I do touch the gas after a few attempts, I have a better chance to start it. But I never touch the gas on any car I try to start usually.

Also noticed that it starts difficult in the morning, and no problems during the day, so something gets dry during the time the car is not started?
 
frank said:
i think you,ll find that only applies to carburettor cars (that have a mechanical acceleration enrichment pumpjet) i throttle at startup, every car i drive :)
Click to expand...
Not sure what you meant, but usually the cars handbook instructs not to press on the gas before starting. But if you think I should press on the acceleration before starting, I can do that, and see what happens. Any ideas are better then nothing.
Carburator cars... those where the days... cold air/hot air settings.. chock... :)
 
could be your distributor breaking down, not un common. are the plugs wet with fuel or oil? if its oil then you have a problem!! fuel, then again this point to ignition problem. I agree with frank on the giving it gas problem, but if the car thinks its running and your gassing it then it will fuel up and wet your plugs. id say check the dizzy
 
hoopdub said:
could be your distributor breaking down, not un common. are the plugs wet with fuel or oil? if its oil then you have a problem!! fuel, then again this point to ignition problem. I agree with frank on the giving it gas problem, but if the car thinks its running and your gassing it then it will fuel up and wet your plugs. id say check the dizzy
Click to expand...
What is the dizzy and how to check it?
So just to be clear, you think the gas pedal should be involved in starting a car or not? I assumed any car with injection has no need for gas pedal during start sequence (put ignition key in, turn, start engine).
 
nissan-micra-k11-distributor-22100-41b00.jpg


That is the micra's distributor or dizzy. Located on the right side of the engine block at the top. Unscrew the plastic cap (3 alan headed screws on mine) and check the terminals inside. If they appear corroded/dirty clean or replace them.

Car with fuel injection shouldn't need to be gassed on startup as this may result in flooding the chambers with fuel.
 
I discovered that my starting problems are due to the key/imobiliser/ignition key barrel because if I barely touch the key sometimes the lights go off on and the distinct clicking you hear when the key is on start position can be heard.
It is like a contact is not perfect, I suspect I should just replace the whole ignition key barrel, but from what I know, that cannot be done easily cause it will mean changing the keys, and dealing with the NATS system.

Any solution or links to similar threads with the same problem will be appreciated, or if a kind soul living in the Newcastle area would help me, that would be even better. Would this error appear on a tester? I do own a VAG-COM test interface, for VW, SEAT, SKODA cars, but nothing for Nissan, and don't even know if a car from 1999 keeps this errors in the ECU.

The car is just so perfect otherwise, is just goes, and I feel so bad to scrap it just because of that. I changed myself the oil, oil filter, fuel filter, alternator and power-stirring belts, and become found of this little car.
 
JDMicra said:
That is the micra's distributor or dizzy. Located on the right side of the engine block at the top. Unscrew the plastic cap (3 alan headed screws on mine) and check the terminals inside. If they appear corroded/dirty clean or replace them.
Car with fuel injection shouldn't need to be gassed on startup as this may result in flooding the chambers with fuel.
Click to expand...
Thanks, JDMicra, I took a look at the distributor cap, it was hold only by 2 screws, the third one was not even there! It's the one below, hard to reach so that is why the previous owner didn't put it back.
Yes, lot of corosion on the cap terminals inside, white dust that is.

When you say check the dizzy, is that all that I should worry about, just the 4 terminals cleaned up in the cap or the whole distributor might have problems? How do I check this?
 
distributor's seem to be a common fault on k11's. iv'e had a few on my k11's.

i just brought a full distributor and leads from a scrapyard off a micra with lowish miles.

the distributor's ive had seem to fail at around 120thousand>140thousand miles... but thats from my experiance :)
 
squarepants said:
distributor's seem to be a common fault on k11's. iv'e had a few on my k11's.

i just brought a full distributor and leads from a scrapyard off a micra with lowish miles.

the distributor's ive had seem to fail at around 120thousand>140thousand miles... but thats from my experiance :)
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Yes, but my question is how can you tell is failed. I would say I need to change the distributor cap for sure, but do not know about the rest of it, how can you tell? Maybe you can describe the symptoms and what you noticed on yours when you took it apart.
How much did you pay for yours from the scrapyard?
 
you should be able to change just the plastic switch at the back of the barrel silviu, and mine runs fine with only 2 dizzycap screws (the bottom one tends to seize in and shear off)
 
Silviu said:
Yes, but my question is how can you tell is failed. I would say I need to change the distributor cap for sure, but do not know about the rest of it, how can you tell? Maybe you can describe the symptoms and what you noticed on yours when you took it apart.
How much did you pay for yours from the scrapyard?
Click to expand...

i took the dizzy apart and i honestly couldn't tell it was at fault.

had a few diffrent symptoms of failure..

  1. on my recent micra, the car kept holding back, and missing but still drove and never fully cut out.
  2. on my silver one, it just cut out and wouldnt start untili changed the dizzy for another one
  3. on my green one, it kept cutting out, started and ran for abit, it then cut out and i would have to leave it for ages until it would start agian.
on my recent one, i changed the plugs, injector rail, fuel pump and throttle body because i couldnt find the fault.

i gave £10 for the dizzy and leads, and i have paid £30 for them before.
 
frank said:
you should be able to change just the plastic switch at the back of the barrel silviu, and mine runs fine with only 2 dizzycap screws (the bottom one tends to seize in and shear off)
Click to expand...
Frank, can't tell you how happy I am to hear that it might be a simple solution. But can't see any plastic, the barrel is one piece with a solid metal that goes over the steering column, and that seem to be attached somehow to stop you from taking it off, no screw cap seen in there.

Under the barrel there is a plastic box which I believe is the transponder (Siemens).

About the distributor, yes, that was my impression, that the 2 problems are unrelated, because it always started but cut off in about 2 seconds. However, I ordered the part, I wonder if the new one will come with the 3 screws? Cause the bottom one was very strange, as you said.
 
at the far end of the barrel silviu, my pre-facelift has 1 screw holding the switch on (facelift have 2 screws iirc)
 
squarepants said:
i took the dizzy apart and i honestly couldn't tell it was at fault.
had a few diffrent symptoms of failure..
  1. on my recent micra, the car kept holding back, and missing but still drove and never fully cut out.
  2. on my silver one, it just cut out and wouldnt start untili changed the dizzy for another one
  3. on my green one, it kept cutting out, started and ran for abit, it then cut out and i would have to leave it for ages until it would start agian.
on my recent one, i changed the plugs, injector rail, fuel pump and throttle body because i couldnt find the fault.

i gave £10 for the dizzy and leads, and i have paid £30 for them before.
Click to expand...

Thank you, so you had this problem on 3 out of 3...
So in the end it was the dizzy? Because right now I am thinking of changing the fuel pump too. Where is that, by the way, is it hard to exchange?
Mine is starting first time sometimes, you can never tell. Then it might not start 5 attempts, but I never have to wait, it can immediately succeed after an unsuccessful attempt.

The thing is that you can always hear the engine starting fine, but it cuts off in about 2 seconds.

I ordered the cap alone for £13.63 from eurocar parts. Probably not a solution though. Today I had a different symptom, the engine didn't start at all, which made me get the cap off, but I think this time is something bad, either fuel pump or ignition coil or something. It is different this time around. Lucky me. I needed to go to work...
 
yeh i changed the dizzy and it cured the problem :)

if it was the pump it wouldnt start, the pump wouldnt even prime.

sounds like ignition to me not fuel... altough there is a possibility it could be the injectors. i did have an injector problem on one of my cars before, but it ran fine just missed because 1 injector was at fault. i very much doubut all your injectors blocked tbh.

try the dizzy first as its the most common. and it does sound like dizzy failure symptoms.
 
squarepants said:
yeh i changed the dizzy and it cured the problem :)

if it was the pump it wouldnt start, the pump wouldnt even prime.

sounds like ignition to me not fuel... altough there is a possibility it could be the injectors. i did have an injector problem on one of my cars before, but it ran fine just missed because 1 injector was at fault. i very much doubut all your injectors blocked tbh.

try the dizzy first as its the most common. and it does sound like dizzy failure symptoms.
Click to expand...
Would you say changing just the distributor cap might be enough?

I can hear the pump working when ignition key is on position before start. But today was different, and engine didn't acted like before. Will see tomorrow.
 
frank said:
you should be able to change just the plastic switch at the back of the barrel silviu, and mine runs fine with only 2 dizzycap screws (the bottom one tends to seize in and shear off)
Click to expand...
Frank, is that plastic part available for sale?
About the distributor, isn't it possible to convert it to a electronic ignition using a kit ? They are sold on the bay for other cars, can't find one for Micra K11 though.
 
Silviu said:
Frank, is that plastic part available for sale?
About the distributor, isn't it possible to convert it to a electronic ignition using a kit ? They are sold on the bay for other cars, can't find one for Micra K11 though.
Click to expand...
you have electronic ignition anyway mate, i think 90% of dizzy fails are the "cutout when hot" problem (and works ok when cooled down)
and checkout the nissan4u site for partnumber etc, or scrappy for the switch
 
frank said:
you have electronic ignition anyway mate, i think 90% of dizzy fails are the "cutout when hot" problem (and works ok when cooled down)
and checkout the nissan4u site for partnumber etc, or scrappy for the switch
Click to expand...
Frank, what I did until now:
- I changed the whole distributor with another one from the scrapyard (complete with the leads), put it on, the same, the starter turns fine but nothing. This distributor is from a 2000 Micra (mine is 1999) and the cap looks a bit different, but doubt that is a problem
- I put back my old distributor and changed the distributor cap with a brand new one, made in japan. Nothing changed
- I checked all fuses, including the one in front of the battery. There is a 25A big one for something related to engine, which I took out to see if anything changes, the same. So seems it might still be something electric, blown away because of the numerous start attempts in the past.
- There are 2 big square blue fuses or condensers (I think nissan4u calls them relays) in the left of the battery and a black one, plus other 2 blue ones in the fuses box inside. I do not know what these are doing and how to check them.

I am getting desperate, yesterday I missed work (I do deliveries using the car) and today I spent all day plus lots of money for nothing.

Anyone thinks it could be something as simple as the spark plugs? Can't get them out as my tools are too short.

My problem was never "cutout when hot", so I guess it's not the distributor.

EDIT: Thanks for nissan4u, didn't knew about it. Can't find anything about the plastic switch from the ignition in there though.
 
Silviu said:
Frank, what I did until now:
- I changed the whole distributor with another one from the scrapyard (complete with the leads), put it on, the same, the starter turns fine but nothing. This distributor is from a 2000 Micra (mine is 1999) and the cap looks a bit different, but doubt that is a problem
- I put back my old distributor and changed the distributor cap with a brand new one, made in japan. Nothing changed
- I checked all fuses, including the one in front of the battery. There is a 25A big one for something related to engine, which I took out to see if anything changes, the same. So seems it might still be something electric, blown away because of the numerous start attempts in the past.
- There are 2 big square blue fuses or condensers or whatever in the left of the battery and a black one, plus other 2 blue ones in the fuses box inside. I do not know what these are doing and how to check them.

I am getting desperate, yesterday I missed work (I do deliveries using the car) and today I spent all day plus lots of money for nothing.

Anyone thinks it could be something as simple as the spark plugs? Can't get them out as my tools are too short.

EDIT: Thanks for nissan4u, didn't knew about it.
Click to expand...
Im in gateshead if you need a hand mate i will help to the best of my ability if you need help, where abouts in the newcastle area are you located?
 
frank said:
diagnosis is the key silviu, have you tried a drop of fuel down the t/b ? and is there a spark ?
Click to expand...
Totally agree, I actually ordered a diagnose interface (Consult Auto Car Vehicle Diagnostic Interface 14Pin Scan Scanner Tool For Nissan)
But is coming from China, so not anytime soon.
Can't access the spark plugs with my limited tools, but I do not really know how to test for spark.
I didn't do before the fuel thing, but I could do it, how much fuel should I put there?
I was thinking to disconnect a hose from the fuel filter and see if fuel comes out (to test fuel pump?).
 
Silviu said:
Totally agree, I actually ordered a diagnose interface (Consult Auto Car Vehicle Diagnostic Interface 14Pin Scan Scanner Tool For Nissan)
But is coming from China, so not anytime soon.
Can't access the spark plugs with my limited tools, but I do not really know how to test for spark.
I didn't do before the fuel thing, but I could do it, how much fuel should I put there?
I was thinking to disconnect a hose from the fuel filter and see if fuel comes out (to test fuel pump?).
Click to expand...
a tablespoon of fuel will suffice mate, and pull a plugcap off and fit an old plug in, and lay it somewhere on the engine on bare metal,
 
frank said:
a tablespoon of fuel will suffice mate, and pull a plugcap off and fit an old plug in, and lay it somewhere on the engine on bare metal,
Click to expand...
I will do it, but I guess it will only be tomorrow. At least now I know more about distributors, and I screwed in the 3rd screw on the cap properly. The screw was fine, but it is almost impossible to reach unless you get the whole distributor down. Which is easy to do. It still exist the possibility that my distributor is faulty and the one I bought from the scrapyard is too... who knows... but I bet it's something electric, that starting problem I had blew something up. At some point, the cigarette lighter fuse blew up. After this happened twice, I put a 20A (instead of the 15A original). Probably the ignition key barrel problem needs to be solved anyway.
 
Hello everybody, I will post updates so other can benefit from my experience, from what I saw on the internet, the starting problems are quite common.
So, yesterday morning I called the AA, who came in 5 minutes literally, and immediately took out the 7.5A fuse from the fuel pump, and cranked the engine for about a minute, while pressing on the gas pedal. After a very long minute, the car started coughing and the guy pushed the fuse back in, while he was still cranking the engine.

After a short while, the car started, I think he still pressed the gas pedal, iirc. He said the engine was flooded. White smoke came out the exhaust.

It was so nice to see it come to life. I was able to use it for work, but not it's running rough and under powered. Never did that before. I intend to change spark plugs to see if it will make any difference. And of course to change the ignition switch.
 
frank said:
it sounds like the notorious coolant sensor flooding problem silviu
Click to expand...
1. Is this the little one (12mm) below the distributor? Because I took it out using a 12mm and put it back after a bit of cleaning cause the coolent started pouring.
2. Under this is a bigger one, couldn't take it out, what is that ? I would say it's a 17mm or something bigger.
3. Managed to replace sparkplugs after A LOT of work, cause my spanner kept getting stuck in the engine bay. In the end I invented something and put a piece of string in it that I used to pull out the spanner.
The new sparkplugs have no effect...
4. I tried to take the ignition switch out, it is impossible to take the little screw out! How did anybody do that? I am searching for a flexible adaptor that might help, but it is a PAIN.
 
yes the 19mm (2 wire) one mate, you flood on startup (thats why the aa man pulled the fuse, and nissan used to supply a patch loom to cure it)
 
frank said:
yes the 19mm (2 wire) one mate, you flood on startup (thats why the aa man pulled the fuse, and nissan used to supply a patch loom to cure it)
Click to expand...
Seems like both of them are 2 wires, but the one I took out was a 12mm. Do you think the 19mm one might be the cause for the loss of power (or better said rough running) I experience now?
It's strange that I never experienced that before the engine flood. I only had the starting problems cause of the ignition switch (I think).
You think they are not supllying those patches any more?
 

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