well i reckon he's saved quite a bit it might not look like a lot but it all adds up. and weight reduction can only aid the breaking anyway right. when them drums are cast out they are in form of being over-engineered they are not going to waste time and money shaving them down ect and its not like frank has shaved them down to 1mm or anything. and the design of a cylindrical object is strong even in the thinest forms just look at submarines. i know there framed inside but if it was square it would crush like a coke can. now the heat cast iron is one of the best metals in the world for dealing with heat. it can withstand massive amounts of heat so i don't think the back brakes on a micra are going to test it to its limits.
shedding weight from behind dash?
- Thread starter will930
- Start date
frank
Club Member
the alternator bracket drops from 2 kg to 1 with some disc cutting dave, and the front mount removal was more of an objective to prove that it does sweet fanny adams really, proven by my (15.4 sec
) 1/4 mile vids, its a flimsy plastic mount that is designed to slide up and down about 10mm fwnbut i dont buy your thermal mass theory tho, performance discs are vented in order to dissipate the heat imo (surface area), and that has far more effect than the weight of them.
which is why my lightened f/w has loads of ventilation added, pauls racing helix clutch slipped badly while trying to catch my 1.0 170mm puny clutch at santa pod
pollyp
Club Member
the alternator bracket drops from 2 kg to 1 with some disc cutting dave, and the front mount removal was more of an objective to prove that it does sweet fanny adams really, proven by my (15.4 sec
but i dont buy your thermal mass theory tho, performance discs are vented in order to dissipate the heat imo (surface area), and that has far more effect than the weight of them.
which is why my lightened f/w has loads of ventilation added, pauls racing helix clutch slipped badly while trying to catch my 1.0 170mm puny clutch at santa pod
my helix paddle clutch & jun flywheel eventually overheated & slipped on my last run with ya cos i was dragging it with handbrake at the start to test if it'd pre-load the turbo.
now i know not to do that next time cos that technique is mainly for auto's and the tiny clutch really doesn't like it due to its reduced thermal mass.
and tis not helped by the fact that i released the clutch and reapplied power too early during upshift and so it could no longer handle it and totally slipped till it cooled down
Lucifer just to clear this up, I regard frank as a friend and with that if I feel he's being "attacked" I'll defend him (yes I know he's old enough to look after himself but I was brought up to look out for your friends) and no I don't regard what he does as the be all and end all, what he's done works for him but may not work for the likes of low rider or pollyp who both track their cars quite often...,
Back on the topic of weight saving and heat reduction/ dispersion.....
Aren't the rear brakes mass produced with the intention of using them on other cars e.g using the same drums from the micra on the almera, as another cost saving exercise?
Back on the topic of weight saving and heat reduction/ dispersion.....
Aren't the rear brakes mass produced with the intention of using them on other cars e.g using the same drums from the micra on the almera, as another cost saving exercise?
frank
Club Member
i agree paul
and imo if you had no sandwich plate between the engine and g/box, and vent holes at the top, then you would have hooked up 4th gear and passed me with ease :doh: (lightweight jun or not)
frank
Club Member
cheers karl
i dont know if the k11 drums fit any other nissan, but i dont remember seeing any other drums with that fat ring around the outer/outboard part fwn, tho many drums have a thinner ring cast around the inboard side, (which would have made more sense to me)
Thermal mass is one thing but this should not be considered purely on it's own or you will end up drawing conclusions which are not related to the basic fundamentals. I got my rear drums so hot on a track once that they were useless, hence the comments from experience of having no rear brakes, it was scary!!
What my point was, is although there is a reduction in mass the effects are questionable particularly with later K11's which seem to have mahoosive thick drums, which even I question in terms of performance. I reckon they are simply used across the Nissan range and used out of convenience.
I agree regarding thermal cooling, which is why vented discs are better, (good disc area with a significantly increased cooling area for a given size). This is one of the reasons you see Mini drums with vent fins on them to aid cooling, as under extreme loads they quickly become useless, (something we find to be the case on c-type jags which have drums all round!).
What my point was, is although there is a reduction in mass the effects are questionable particularly with later K11's which seem to have mahoosive thick drums, which even I question in terms of performance. I reckon they are simply used across the Nissan range and used out of convenience.
I agree regarding thermal cooling, which is why vented discs are better, (good disc area with a significantly increased cooling area for a given size). This is one of the reasons you see Mini drums with vent fins on them to aid cooling, as under extreme loads they quickly become useless, (something we find to be the case on c-type jags which have drums all round!).
pollyp
Club Member
i agree paul
sandwich plate is off so the bottom end is exposed and may offer abit of cooling airflow to a degree.
goin into 4th when i needed to be in 3rd meant i'd be outa my powerband and tbh once it rapidly overheated off the line and slipped there's barely a chance the burning clutch disc would hold up and make use of any higher gear.
anyway while this was happen over afew secs, u were still shooting off and even if i regained some drive it would be of no benefit at that point so thought Game Over Maan!
now if I'd learnt this lesson beforehand and just started off normally, then i may have stood a chance
pollyp
Club Member
using similar parts across many models that performs the same specific job is logical. though on nissan4u its showing the drums are only for micras?
frank
Club Member
hmm, a heavier f/w might take a tad longer to overheat, and longer to cool down too, but "heat transfer" is the key (the clutch is still gonna cook however heavy the f/w is if there,s no ventilation fwn) .
same with the brakes, if you,ve fitted a splitter on the front for example, then the brakes will have less airflow around them (my front bumper has a couple of inches trimmed off the bottom for that reason)
and as for why lighten the car ? the more you remove the sharper the brakes and acceleration and handling becomes, and the more of a hoot it is to drive
frank
Club Member
and once done, you reap the benefits for as long as you keep the car eh
in answer to "why not remove the trim and sound deadening ?" i did that to bluey, and the novelty wore off within 5 minutes lol fwn it makes it too damn noisy, and too insurance/police unfriendly :wasntme: .
bluey weighed in at 760kgs at the local council tip weighbridge, so i guess this povspec/non sunroof one is nearing the weight (and power) of an ST
frank
Club Member
i,ve added sound deadening to mine lol (that silver bubblepack stuff that goes under wood flooring) doors, 1/4,s, tailgate lined and stuffed with it, the whole roll weighs about the same as a rear a/r/b.
but i think the seats were the biggest saving tbh (each front one is 14 KG iirc) my ally seatframe was 2KG, then covered with the factory foam and trim, same sort of saving with the rears too
but i think the seats were the biggest saving tbh (each front one is 14 KG iirc
) my ally seatframe was 2KG, then covered with the factory foam and trim, same sort of saving with the rears too
Attachments
This thread seems relevant in this case
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/heater-matrix-question.53087/#post-545950
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/heater-matrix-question.53087/#post-545950
