Poor starting in the mornings

[bloke_in_m]

Hi Guys, Be nice to me

Vehicle type:Nissan Micra 1300cc Model:March C# Reg 'L' (1997 ish?)

This car has always been a good starter until now

The problem is that its a pain to get started first thing in the morning. Please be assured there is nothing wrong with the starter or battery. I've replaced the plugs, leads and air filter. But the problem still persists. I've got a disy cap turning up (no rotor arms in stock). so I'll fit that over the weekend to see if that makes a difference. Additional bit of information - At the last MoT, the guy said it was difficult to get the emissions down. A year or so a go, I replaced the sensor in the exhaust manifold (can't remember what its called now).

The engine spins over okay, but refuses to fire. By keeping the engine turning over, it starts to fire on one cylinder, then another, and so on, then the last one but still needs help from the starter motor to keep it turning over. Any sort of pressure on the throttle peddle kills the firing. It seems as if the engine is getting flooded, as there is a heavy petrol smell around. Sometimes when it refuses to pick up speed, you can hold the throttle to the floor and keep turning it over (this was a method used to start cars with carb/s when they were flooded), then sometimes it will start firing and pick up speed.

Once the car has been started and run for a while (engine warm) it will start okay.

Can anyone shed some light on what I can do to sort this problem out please?

Thanks in advance for any help any guidance

"Bloke in a Micra" (well its the wife's :girly: really)

 

[frank]

hi bloke_in_m

a comprehensive explanation there (Y) for a change
it does sound like flooding eh
all i can suggest is to turn on the ignition then pull the fuelpump fuse (2nd one down on the right on mine)
mine runs for a few seconds when i do that, so if it starts better, then will die obviously, it might help in diagnosing

 

[bloke_in_m]

Thanks Frank, I'll give your suggestion a try. Trouble is, once its going its going, so any changes made takes days to see the effects

Think I'll try pulling it first, then attempt to start, certainly worth a try

"Bloke in a Micra" (well its the wife's :girly: really)

 

[mike]

mine has the same problem, the engine isn't flooding. It sound like it's either a dodgy temp sensor (underneath the dizzy cap), dodgy lamda sensor (know you replaced this previously), maf sensor problem or a combination of all three.

The temp sensor also acts as the cold start sensor, as time passes the copper rod gets corrodes and gets covered in filth. Best off stealing another one off a scrappy or buying one off nissan if they are cheap.

When i can be bothered i will replace the coolent, replace the temp sensor and clean and solder the maf as well. Finally run some engine cleaner through the petrol as well and should improve.

Mike

 

[bloke_in_m]

lamda sensor

That's the word I was looking for

maf sensor

Where this please?

The temp sensor also acts as the cold start sensor, as time passes the copper rod gets corrodes and gets covered in filth

This is the engine coolant sensor I take it. Looking at the Temp gauge in the dash, it takes a while for the engine to warm up, as is noted by the cold air coming out of the heater. My diesel van warms up far quicker

clean and solder the maf as well

eh?

Finally run some engine cleaner through the petrol

Please explain on this point?

Thanks for your time

 

[ollie240585]

The MAF is located on the throttle body (the bit on top of the inlet manifold) it is a common fault for them to incorrectly read the air coming into the engine and then can not correctly fuel the engine.

On the side of the throttle body is a small cover, which can be removed and a few of the joints can then be re-soldered. It is common for these joints to become dry joints and reduce the connection.

There are engine cleaners which you add to your fuel, which in turn cleans the engine and the injectors etc.

 

[98twister]

Just in case this has been overlooked....

Do you ever run the car for a very short time. i.e moving it off the drive onto the road?

Micras do not like this and will struggle to start the following morning.

 

[bloke_in_m]

The MAF is located on the throttle body (the bit on top of the inlet manifold) it is a common fault for them to incorrectly read the air coming into the engine and then can not correctly fuel the engine.

On the side of the throttle body is a small cover, which can be removed and a few of the joints can then be re-soldered. It is common for these joints to become dry joints and reduce the connection.

There are engine cleaners which you add to your fuel, which in turn cleans the engine and the injectors etc.

Thanks Ollie for the info, I'll investigate over the weekend.

Just in case this has been overlooked....

Do you ever run the car for a very short time. i.e moving it off the drive onto the road?

Micras do not like this and will struggle to start the following morning.

Oh yes.... been there, sussed that (several years a go). We now leave it running for a while, or run up the lane and back.

 

[bloke_in_m]

Hi Guy's

I've still got problems. Pulling the fuel pump fuse tends to help get it started.

I went and bought a second hand throttle body the other day. And this morning it failed to start, so thought its an opportunity to change the bodies over. There seems to be a problem with the replacement as it hesitates quite a bit when accelerating, certainly not right.

There was mention that some joints need resoldering, so I've taken a photo of the pcb in the original throttle body.

(I've put a larger photo here - http://www.bitz.me.uk/micra/MAS001.jpg)

Can anyone indicate what I need to do, to make good please?

Thanks

 

[frank]

bloke_in_m

there,s a pdf file here
http://www.micra.com.au/technical-articles/cg13de-throttle-body-resoldering-guide.php

 

[bloke_in_m]

bloke_in_m

there,s a pdf file here
http://www.micra.com.au/technical-articles/cg13de-throttle-body-resoldering-guide.php

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the info.

I'm still having problems

I resoldered the connections and refitted the throttle body. Now back to smooth running, unlike the replacement unit, but still not starting.

I've fitted new temperature sensors by the distributor, but still not starting easily.

As a stop gap I've fitted a switch across where the fuse for the fuel pump should be, so I can switch it off before starting!

Having taken the distributor top off, the contacts are pretty corroded. I've scrapped them clean, but.... I've tried to order a new rotor arm and distributor top, but it would seem as my car is a grey import and fitted with a HK11 engine, none of my normal motor factors have replacements. I really don't wish to visit our local Nissan dealer as the guy in the stores there is a total waste of time!

So can anyone advise where I can get new replacements online please?

Has anyone any further advice on the poor cold starting please?

Thanks

 

[zanes]

HK11 engine??? I thought every K11 ever was a CG (in your case CG13DE). Look at the engine code, does it have CG13 in it?

 

[bloke_in_m]

HK11 engine??? I thought every K11 ever was a CG (in your case CG13DE). Look at the engine code, does it have CG13 in it?

Assuming the engine number is the one on the gearbox mounting flange, facing the radiator, there is

CG13
062615A

stamped in to it. There is no DE on the end. The HK11 was the information from the tech guys at my supplier.

Thanks

 

[zanes]

It's a CG13 then, exactly the same as all the UK (and all other) 1.3 K11 Micras.

 

[bloke_in_m]

It's a CG13 then, exactly the same as all the UK (and all other) 1.3 K11 Micras.

Maybe? I don't really know, but the dissy is obviously different as my guy went through all the boxes on the shelf to check, same with the rotor arm.

This is the dissy

There's more pickies here of the one that didn't fit, and an outline of the dissy cap. - http://bitz.me.uk/nissan/

Any help on where I can obtain the dissy cap and the rotor arm will be appreciated

 

[zanes]

I'm 99% sure all K11s had the CG engine. You did tell the motor factors it was for a K11.

 

[bloke_in_m]

I'm 99% sure all K11s had the CG engine. You did tell the motor factors it was for a K11.

We went through all the variations. My guy is well switched on and not some spotty brightspark in Helfords. In fact he used to rally a k11

What ever the engine is, the dissy is obviously different