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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
after such a long hard weekend drive, gave kasandra a much needed oil change.
little bits in the plug

6 (1).jpg


oil very dark & dirty

6 (2).jpg


all fresh now
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
collected an old lower arm from a friend

IMAG6120.jpg


removed the c-clip

IMAG6121.jpg
IMAG6122.jpg


hammered the ball joint out

IMAG6123.jpg
IMAG6125.jpg


wirebrushed and it measured 35.05 - 35.10mm dia.
now I have the data for choosing which spherical bearing to use.

IMAG6126_BURST002.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ordered a pair of GE12AW steel-teflon lined spherical bearings and some 50mm steel rod to machine

bearing.jpg


after a 1000mile return trip down to japfest, the catchcan only caught 96ml!
something really ain't working right so gotta check that out. maybe machine the container out of more conductive Alu/steel

IMAG6127.jpg
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
ordered a pair of GE12AW steel-teflon lined spherical bearings and some 50mm steel rod to machine

View attachment 53873

after a 1000mile return trip down to japfest, the catchcan only caught 96ml!
something really ain't working right so gotta check that out. maybe machine the container out of more conductive Alu/steel

View attachment 53872
If you are machining critical suspension components yourself Paul you need a suitable high tensile steel ! See HERE. The sort of easy machinable mild steel that you probably have got is NOT suitable!
Critical steering/suspension components are usually cold formed/rolled, which imparts extra strength to the component, forming the grain structure of the material within the shape of the component, not by turning/dieing, which cuts through the grain structure, weakening the part. Also strength critical parts are usually heat treated to specific hardness/toughness parameters after the forming process....(I was, for the last 11 years of my working life, prior to retirement, a designer in the automotive fastener industry and amongst other things, spent many hours doing tensile tests on batches of components, failing quite a few that had been incorrectly heat treated or manufactured by far eastern sub-contractors from inferior grades of steel....)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
If you are machining critical suspension components yourself Paul you need a suitable high tensile steel ! See HERE. The sort of easy machinable mild steel that you probably have got is NOT suitable!
Critical steering/suspension components are usually cold formed/rolled, which imparts extra strength to the component, forming the grain structure of the material within the shape of the component, not by turning/dieing, which cuts through the grain structure, weakening the part. Also strength critical parts are usually heat treated to specific hardness/toughness parameters after the forming process....(I was, for the last 11 years of my working life, prior to retirement, a designer in the automotive fastener industry and amongst other things, spent many hours doing tensile tests on batches of components, failing quite a few that had been incorrectly heat treated or manufactured by far eastern sub-contractors from inferior grades of steel....)

i already just brought some EN1A bright mild steel off ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291541838...49&var=590599586376&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

what grade & source dya recommend for machining & welding onto the lower arms?
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
i already just brought some EN1A bright mild steel off ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291541838286?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=590599586376&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

what grade & source dya recommend for machining & welding onto the lower arms?
I wouldn't, too many unknowns.:eek: Recipe for disaster in my opinion, it's one thing to make and fit spacing parts, securing original components with like, but longer, high tensile bolts, but to make totally new critical components without a great deal of knowledge about metallurgy/material properties and the stresses that the components will be subjected to is bordering on insanity!
 
I thought the ball joints didn't come out!

I'd go back to looking if there's any other ball joints that use the same taper, I was thinking if the nut bolting to the hub is the same size the taper is more likely to be the same as well. Trouble is searching on parts 4 u lists a heap of models using the same nut but I'm not sure how to work out if they are used on a ball joint. I can't remember is it a castellated nut?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I wouldn't, too many unknowns.:eek: Recipe for disaster in my opinion, it's one thing to make and fit spacing parts, securing original components with like, but longer, high tensile bolts, but to make totally new critical components without a great deal of knowledge about metallurgy/material properties and the stresses that the components will be subjected to is bordering on insanity!

High tensile bolts will be used to clamp it together.
The spherical bearings will be housed within the original arm bore so lateral loads are no prob.
the machined upper & lower cups with circlip will be welded onto the arms to keep the bearings secured vertically within the arm.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I thought the ball joints didn't come out!

I'd go back to looking if there's any other ball joints that use the same taper, I was thinking if the nut bolting to the hub is the same size the taper is more likely to be the same as well. Trouble is searching on parts 4 u lists a heap of models using the same nut but I'm not sure how to work out if they are used on a ball joint. I can't remember is it a castellated nut?

highly doubt a 35mm dia lower ball joint with extended tapered rod exists for these arms or economical.
engineering my own is far easier, cheaper & faster.
some use castellated nuts, some use lock nuts.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the 50 x 500mm steel rod arrived and jeez it weighs a ton :D

IMAG6131.jpg


ordered some GE12AW which I thought from the pics were full spherical bearings but damnit turns out to be half-spherical bearings so will have to return em :mad:

IMAG6132.jpg
GE..AW bearings.jpg


gonna order some GEH17C which appears & measures up to be a fully spherical steel/PTFE bearing

183201017.gif

B-10-GEH17C-SKF-EN.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the GEH17C bearing & inner circlip arrived :)

IMAG6134.jpg


looks like a steel outer casing with a sintered bronze & PTFE lining. swivels very smoothly

IMAG6135.jpg


it slots into the lower arm hole like a glove :cool:

IMAG6136.jpg


a bonus is that the 12mm high bearing case sits just about flush with the original bore on the arm

IMAG6137.jpg


so I simply just need to machine some retaining cups at both ends and the circlip sits' like this

IMAG6139.jpg


the original ball joint sits like this with 32 deg of swivel

1.jpg
7.jpg


here's the new arrangement.
- GEH17C spherical bearing (red/green) sits inside the existing hole on the lower arm (white),
- the upper retaining cup (yellow) is welded onto the lower arm. it transfered upward bump forces from the bearing to the arm and holds the rubber dust cover/boot.
- the lower retaining cup (turquoise) is welded under the arm and keeps the bearing retained via the circlip (grey) to transfer rebound forces to the arm.
- extension collar (blue) lowers the ball joint by 40mm and transfers vertical & lateral forces from the hub to the bearing.
- the lower collar washer (yellow) and extension collar (blue) clamps onto the spherical bearing.
- high tensile M12 x 120mm bolt (orange) keeps the whole assembly clamped tight onto the hub and transfers the bump forces from the hub to the bearing.

2.jpg
3.jpg
5.jpg
4.jpg


the bearing also has a much wider 38 deg swivel range

6.jpg


now I need to find a suitable CV boot to cover the joint
 
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John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
the GEH17C bearing & inner circlip arrived :)

View attachment 53890

looks like a steel outer casing with a sintered bronze & PTFE lining. swivels very smoothly

View attachment 53891

it slots into the lower arm hole like a glove :cool:

View attachment 53892

a bonus is that the 12mm high bearing case sits just about flush with the original bore on the arm

View attachment 53893

so I simply just need to machine some retaining cups at both ends and the circlip sits' like this

View attachment 53889

the original ball joint sits like this with 24 deg of swivel

View attachment 53898 View attachment 53897

here's the new arrangement.
- GEH17C spherical bearing (red/green) sits inside the existing hole on the lower arm (white),
- the upper retaining cup (yellow) is welded onto the lower arm. it transfered upward bump forces from the bearing to the arm and holds the rubber dust cover/boot.
- the lower retaining cup (turquoise) is welded under the arm and keeps the bearing retained via the circlip (grey) to transfer rebound forces to the arm.
- extension collar (blue) lowers the ball joint by 40mm and transfers vertical & lateral forces from the hub to the bearing.
- the lower collar washer (yellow) and extension collar (blue) clamps onto the spherical bearing.
- high tensile M12 x 120mm bolt (orange) keeps the whole assembly clamped tight onto the hub and transfers the bump forces from the hub to the bearing.

View attachment 53899 View attachment 53900 View attachment 53895 View attachment 53894

the bearing also has a much wider 38 deg swivel range

View attachment 53896

now I need to find a suitable CV boot to cover the joint
Paul, how are you filling the space around the clamping bolt, left by the tapered ball joint? At the very least you will need a hardened, tapered sleeve slid over the bolt... I do hope that your welding skills are good enough to attach the top retaining collar to the lower suspension arm, a failure there would be catastrophic!
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Paul, how are you filling the space around the clamping bolt, left by the tapered ball joint? At the very least you will need a hardened, tapered sleeve slid over the bolt... I do hope that your welding skills are good enough to attach the top retaining collar to the lower suspension arm, a failure there would be catastrophic!

updated the design, I'll be using a beefier M16 bolt so the head covers more of the ball bearing edge and I'll be drilling the hub with a straight 16mm bit to fit snug against the bolt. my welding is fine, I've rewelded these arms before and zero problems after so many trackdays.

8.jpg
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
updated the design, I'll be using a beefier M16 bolt so the head covers more of the ball bearing edge and I'll be drilling the hub with a straight 16mm bit to fit snug against the bolt. my welding is fine, I've rewelded these arms before and zero problems after so many trackdays.

View attachment 53901
Better Idea Paul, though don't just drill out the arm with a 16mm drill bit, you need a really snug (slide) fit with the bolt shank, so better to drill undersize and ream the hole for an exact fit to the bolt.
As well as the top rubber cover to the joint you will also need a cover for the underside to keep dirt out of the ball joint.........
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Better Idea Paul, though don't just drill out the arm with a 16mm drill bit, you need a really snug (slide) fit with the bolt shank, so better to drill undersize and ream the hole for an exact fit to the bolt.
As well as the top rubber cover to the joint you will also need a cover for the underside to keep dirt out of the ball joint.........

yup working on that ;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Modelled the geometry before & after the extension.

Full Droop
When fully drooped, both ball joints are swivelled right at their limits.

stock droop.jpg


I would've preferred to pie-cut & bend the angle of the bearing mount / arm from 12deg to 20deg so the bolt head won't strike the casing but I don't wanna further weaken the arm tbh.

extend droop.jpg


Static Ride Height
At normal ride height, notice how the standard ball joint is pointing above the chassis mount and lowering the roll center well away from the CoG.

stock sit.jpg


Extending the ball joint by 40mm raises the roll center alot closer the CoG so it's less likely to roll as much during corner entry.
the edge of the arm is quite close to the red hot brake discs so gotta be careful how I mount the rubber dust boot.

extend sit.jpg


Bump Stop
When the front end is maxed out on the bump stops during intense braking or cornering, jeesus look at how far the standard ball joint points up and no surprise why it really wants to roll over all the time

stock bump.jpg


The extended ball joint when at bump stop is barely above the chassis mount so the roll center is massively better than before

extend bump.jpg


Standard Ball Joint Bump Travel
During the bump travel on the current standard ball joints, the awful geometry tucks the wheels inwards alot which induces +ve camber wearing out the outer shoulders (especially with bad roll center), uneven bump steer, and points the steering toe-in during braking or diving.

stock-bump-travel.gif


Extended Ball Joint Bump Travel
With extended ball joints, the geometry stays perfectly vertical so hopefully there's less bump steer, consistant wheel alignment toe, even tyre wear, less body roll, flatter tyre patch and better front end grip as a result

extended-bump-travel.gif
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Wrap exhaust heat wrap around the ball joint, and use a metal 'zip tie' to hold it in place.

currently looking for a steering rack gaiter or fork arm gaiter or just a straight bit of rubber tube that's 36mm inner-dia to fit the two ends.
exhaust wrap is a good idea but think it may unravel apart & let water in cos the hub swivels round, unless you mean let the top bit swivel loose.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ordered a 15.5mm drill bit and a 16mm straight flute hand reamer tool

reamer.jpg


found the nearest fitting ball joint dust cover

joint boot.jpg


for the underside I'll just snug this plastic pipe cap over the bearing housing

lower cap.jpg


it'll be like this

ball joint dust cover.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the 15.5mm drill bit, 16mm reamer, ball joint covers and end caps arrived. just gotta prep some lathe tools and practice with the welder before beginning

IMAG6140.jpg


the wideband has recently been struggling to warmup & read correctly during cold starts (takes at least 3 restart attempts). it looks abit sooty, maybe clogging up

IMAG6141.jpg


so good time to replace it. reads much better, faster and doesn't randomly lean-out as much during idle

IMAG6143.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
got some shiny new open wheel nut :cool:

IMAG6144.jpg


removed the rusty old ones

IMAG6146.jpg


and fitted the new ones

IMAG6148.jpg


cannot believe the front wheels have survived 7 years of daily & track stress held by only half the nut threads? :eek:
I should really fit the longer studs at the front too

IMAG6152.jpg
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
You are pushing your luck there with those wheel nuts Paul! :eek: (especially if the new chrome, after market, ones are not to the same hi tensile strength as the old OEM ones...ever heard of 'hydrogen embrittlement?)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
You are pushing your luck there with those wheel nuts Paul! :eek: (especially if the new chrome, after market, ones are not to the same hi tensile strength as the old OEM ones...ever heard of 'hydrogen embrittlement?)

I've used steel nuts from ebay for years & many trackdays with zero issues
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
I've used steel nuts from ebay for years & many trackdays with zero issues
Your choice Paul, I don't believe in taking chances on safety issues......
With full thread engagement the chrome after market nuts are probably perfectly OK, but with the minimal thread engagement on your front wheel studs you are taking a risk that could easily be be averted by fitting longer studs.....
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Your choice Paul, I don't believe in taking chances on safety issues......
With full thread engagement the chrome after market nuts are probably perfectly OK, but with the minimal thread engagement on your front wheel studs you are taking a risk that could easily be be averted by fitting longer studs.....

ever since I fitted these alloys 7 yrs ago and pushed them hard on track it's always been with these aftermarket nuts threaded in by bout 20mm and it held up perfectly fine so they're well up to the task.
but yeah now that I know the fronts are only 1/2 way in, I'll upgrade the front studs too.
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
ever since I fitted these alloys 7 yrs ago and pushed them hard on track it's always been with these aftermarket nuts threaded in by bout 20mm and it held up perfectly fine so they're well up to the task.
but yeah now that I know the fronts are only 1/2 way in, I'll upgrade the front studs too.
I would say that you have been very lucky Paul, there are 'after market nuts' and there are 'after market nuts'!
With the OEM wheel nuts you know that
a) they are made from the correct grade of steel every time and
b) almost certainly cold headed in the same factory as the ones originally fitted to the car.
With after market ones you do not have this . Ones bought one day might well be correctly specced both in material and manufacturing process (though unlikely if made to a price, in smaller quantities), while the next day, from a different supplier, they could well have been made from an inferior grade of steel and die threaded in some back street workshop in Pakistan. Less critical on a standard road car with full thread engagement, being pottered around by some old lady, but that is far from the case with your car ;)
Do not just assume that the after market nuts that you are fitting will hold up the same way as the ones previously on the car. The fact that they are plated already potentially modifies the steel structure, do research on 'hydrogen embrittlement and chrome plating'.
In the earlier days of Formula Ford racing there were some catastrophic accidents caused by failures of front wishbones that had been chrome plated to 'look pretty', where non plated ones had never failed before.........
 

frank

Club Member
even if they are only mild steel nuts, they will still be stronger than alloy nuts tho john, and there are plenty of alloy ones sold
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
even if they are only mild steel nuts, they will still be stronger than alloy nuts tho john, and there are plenty of alloy ones sold
A useful guide HERE Paul and some horror stories about aluminium wheel nuts HERE .......... Though I doubt that mild steel ones would fare much better.....
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
thanks for the link john, should be a good read. tis a relief that after all this time, those steel nuts haven't stripped a thread during a high-G high-speed corner, especially at nurburgring but safe to say I'll be extending the studs for full thread engagement to be sure they'll hold ;)

ooh I've never ever trusted those flimsey aluminium nuts, especially cheapo ebay imports. maybe alright for just a static trailer-queen show car purely for looks but never trusted on british roads or track.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
made the lower retaining cups

IMAG6157.jpg


fits like this

IMAG6165.jpg


stick welding in that tight gap will be tricky but achievable with practice. alternatively I'm thinking of cutting the obstructing sides off, so I have better access to weld the cup onto the arm, then weld the side piece back onto the arm

IMAG6160.jpg


made the upper retaining cup

IMAG6162.jpg
IMAG6163.jpg


the rubber dust boot & bottom cover fits like this.

IMAG6164.jpg


awaiting the new fasteners before machining the extension bits
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
machined the 24mm socket down to clear the hub

IMAG6166.jpg


made a precise thin sleeve to go between the 16mm bolt and 17mm bearing hole and slips in like a glove :cool:

IMAG6168.jpg
IMAG6170.jpg


I ordered five M16x130mm bolts from ebay last thurs 18/5/17 (expected 23rd) but it didn't arrive till 25/5/17 and holding everything up so I ended up buying some locally for a premium.
turns out the 5 ebay bolts on the left has a plain shank of 76mm whereas the 3 local bolts I just got tday on the right has a longer shank of 82mm, so will be returning these ebay bolts.
actually the staight shank bit barely reaches the hub hole so I'm gonna replace em with longer 140mm bolts.

IMAG6171.jpg


little spacer to lift the bolt head away from the circlip at the sides

IMAG6172.jpg


begin machining the tapered extension collar

IMAG6173.jpg
IMAG6175.jpg
IMAG6176.jpg


I really hate parting-off on this machine, the tip snatches afew times

IMAG6177.jpg


so I just hacksaw it off and finish the end on the lathe

IMAG6178.jpg
IMAG6179.jpg


one end complete

IMAG6180.jpg


clears the upper retainer as expected

IMAG6182.jpg


and the bottom retainer

IMAG6184.jpg


dust cover clears the components fine

IMAG6186.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
got some M16 x 140mm bolts

IMAG6189.jpg


much better with 14mm of smooth shank above the extension to slot into the hub hole

IMAG6190.jpg


it was soo hot today :cool::confused:

IMAG6187.jpg
 

SuperUno

Buy & Sell Member
What is the idea of the cone shape on the extension? I understand you need it to keep the movement, but why not have it the same dia. all the way up?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
What is the idea of the cone shape on the extension? I understand you need it to keep the movement, but why not have it the same dia. all the way up?

it's for strength & stiffness.
the lower ball joint is gonna be extended 40mm further away from the hub so there'll be massive lateral bending forces on the extension shafts from heavy braking, cornering and acceleration as well as vertical bump/rebound along the shaft. so I'll need as much stiffness as possible.

if it was just a straight 21mm diameter extension, it'll only provide a limited amount of stiffness.

since the spherical bearing has a 21mm end and the hub upright has a 50mm wide base, I taper the extension to provide maximum stiffness between the points (similar to corner gussets), reducing some weight, not foul with surrounding areas throughout the swinging travel and have no sharp undercut features to form any cracks.

the 15mm straight bit is to clear the upper retaining cup which holds the rubber dust cover.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
catchcan only got 41ml after 343 miles. either it's not cold enough to condense or the plumbing is blocked or there's less oil vapour? needs checking out

IMAG6196.jpg


time to removed the suspension

IMAG6197.jpg


the front pads are wearing evenly at half way down to 13.5mm

IMAG6198.jpg
IMAG6199.jpg

wear.jpg

arm & hubs removed. the LH wheel bearing feels abit loose which may explain the rumbling during fast right turns, may as well replace it next week while its all apart.

IMAG6200.jpg
IMAG6201.jpg


dismantled

IMAG6202.jpg


the LH arm is getting abit rusty

IMAG6203.jpg


thankfully the spare arm I got from sophie (bottom) is abit fresher and better to weld

IMAG6204.jpg
IMAG6205.jpg
IMAG6207.jpg


the machined socket just about clears the hub

IMAG6208.jpg


the extension will fit nicely

IMAG6209.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the msc server being abit glitchy recently?
occasionally since thursday the "my profile/my content" link shows up as error. and now I can't upload any images :(
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
practice & setting up the welder on the rusty arm. stick welder was too inconsistant, uneven, hard to control and sometimes blowing holes during long runs as heat builds.
so dialed in the MIG welder instead and it does a much better job, good penetration, consistant & even appearance with little clean up, especially handy for the tight areas.

IMAG6210.jpg


reinforced the rear peg of the spare arm

IMAG6211.jpg


carefully welded the retaining cups of the left arm

IMAG6214.jpg


and right arm

IMAG6216.jpg


both arms welded up

IMAG6225.jpg
 

John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
practice & setting up the welder on the rusty arm. stick welder was too inconsistant, uneven, hard to control and sometimes blowing holes during long runs as heat builds.
so dialed in the MIG welder instead and it does a much better job, good penetration, consistant & even appearance with little clean up, especially handy for the tight areas.

View attachment 54008

reinforced the rear peg of the spare arm

View attachment 54009

carefully welded the retaining cups of the left arm

View attachment 54011

and right arm

View attachment 54012

both arms welded up

View attachment 54010
Nice job with the MIG welding Paul :cool:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
needed to remove the front rubber bush on the spare arm. instead of tediously drilling alot of holes in the rubber and tearing it out, I made this hole cutter

IMAG6226.jpg


to cut through all the rubber

IMAG6227.jpg
IMAG6228.jpg


and removed the outer sleeve. now I can fit the PU bushing

IMAG6229.jpg


arms repainted

IMAG6230.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
drilled & reamed the hub till the bolt fits snug

IMAG6232.jpg

IMAG6233.jpg


test fit the assembly. the top of the bolt & nut just misses the driveshaft.

IMAG6234.jpg


and enough clearance between the bolt & wheel :cool:

IMAG6238.jpg

IMAG6239.jpg
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
machined the new studs down to length

IMAG6240.jpg
IMAG6241.jpg


Received new wheel bearing

IMAG6243.jpg


Hammered the hub off

IMAG6244.jpg
IMAG6245.jpg


A slight ding on the hub from a previous removal

IMAG6248.jpg


There's the cause of the right turn whirring noise, same defect as on the rear hubs

IMAG6250.jpg


Tried removing the outer race but I don't have any round steel large enough and it's pretty stuck so will take to a shop

IMAG6254.jpg
IMAG6255.jpg
IMAG6256.jpg
IMAG6258.jpg
 
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John_D

Club Member
Radio Code Guru
machined the new studs down to length

33e229446d622b464c0fc103b9294455_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg

56435095e9032fb5bc5c88d28683d81b_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg


Received new wheel bearing

2c79f04e9b2df31ded59e311ade42f94_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg


Hammered the hub off

0bc98fb44111bbb55e3f2e374aaee6d7_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg
2f01565037c8efb1ddf337f7dc8d8877_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg


A slight ding on the hub from a previous removal

01d2a95f47f72d463a13800286b8e2e1_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg


There's the cause of the right turn whirring noise, same defect as on the rear hubs

d897b2304ffbe2d4db529bb1b6f37208_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg


Tried removing the outer race but I don't have any round steel large enough and it's pretty stuck so will take to a shop

ce4adb30415b7a6551d6af9f21ea5917_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg
042c2f8b54019c1a902f5ab31a7fe1f0_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg
eb93d174dc25ed01dfab0d64094f7717_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg
1d31d5f39c80a2f54f4d46b8d32b69bd_uploadfromtaptalk.jpg
Pictures not showing Paulo_O
 
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