CMF_Toma
» CMF Member
Just throwing an idea out there, Has anyone had a gas conversion on their Micra? If so how much? The government is giving us a $2000 rebate to convert to gas. If its less than $2000 then im all for it.
LPG Conversion Rebate/Conversion
- Thread starter CMF_Toma
- Start date
CMF_Sean
» CMF MemberLol....
The government won't pay you to convert your car. The conversion costs around $4000
I wouldn't bother anyway as in 2 years the excise on gas is going to be cut so it will only be around 10c cheaper than petrol..
Sean
The government won't pay you to convert your car. The conversion costs around $4000
I wouldn't bother anyway as in 2 years the excise on gas is going to be cut so it will only be around 10c cheaper than petrol..
Sean
CMF_Tony
» CMF MemberSEE i told you guys Cisco's still alive!
CMF_White Knight
» CMF MemberHow is the NA screamer project coming along Cisco??
CMF_mighty mouse
» CMF MemberHi guys, the gas excise i still only going to be 12cents per litre at 2cents a year i think still makes it heaps cheaper this is already legislated regards Gav
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberDon't know what happened to my previous post.
I rang and visited like heaps of places and found one that would do it for about $4400 (gas only)...bit cheaper for dual fuel.
Just waiting for the (small) tank to arrive, so that I can still fit stuff in my car.
David
I rang and visited like heaps of places and found one that would do it for about $4400 (gas only)...bit cheaper for dual fuel.
Just waiting for the (small) tank to arrive, so that I can still fit stuff in my car.
David
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberhi
not very relevant but i fitted an lpg kit to my k11 3/4 years ago,
our gas in uk is from 34 pence/l giving me 260 mls/10 quid on a run,
a 45l cylinder tank fits a treat against the back panel (had to put a 135 tyre on the spare tho),
kit cost 500 quid and takes 1 day to fit, its saved me thousands!
its a 2nd generation kit (probe inserted into venturi"throttle body")not the 4 nozzle type with injector emulators so its a little bit crude but with a little bit of twiddling and a makeshift a/f/r guage (multimeter) got the tailpipe colour spot on!
previous car was super s which did 132000mls, a good half of that on gas
and had zero problems,then swopped kit onto current car,
hope this is of some help!
frank
not very relevant but i fitted an lpg kit to my k11 3/4 years ago,
our gas in uk is from 34 pence/l giving me 260 mls/10 quid on a run,
a 45l cylinder tank fits a treat against the back panel (had to put a 135 tyre on the spare tho),
kit cost 500 quid and takes 1 day to fit, its saved me thousands!
its a 2nd generation kit (probe inserted into venturi"throttle body")not the 4 nozzle type with injector emulators so its a little bit crude but with a little bit of twiddling and a makeshift a/f/r guage (multimeter) got the tailpipe colour spot on!
previous car was super s which did 132000mls, a good half of that on gas
and had zero problems,then swopped kit onto current car,
hope this is of some help!
frank
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberWould it really be worth it to fit gas to a car as economical as a Micra?
The downsides would be (I assume) loss of boot space and crap handling with all the extra weight right at the back.
Mychael
The downsides would be (I assume) loss of boot space and crap handling with all the extra weight right at the back.
Mychael
CMF_frank2
» CMF Membermipcar
over double the mpg aint bad whatever the car surely? (do,nt know how your gas price compares tho)
handling has never crossed my mind!(did,nt notice any difference tho, but there must be some).
and a micra aint got much of a boot anyway imo
frank
over double the mpg aint bad whatever the car surely? (do,nt know how your gas price compares tho)
handling has never crossed my mind!(did,nt notice any difference tho, but there must be some).
and a micra aint got much of a boot anyway imo
frank
CMF_jay22
» CMF MemberI looked into getting my first car converted to gas.(EF FALCON). And it must be because its a popular car, every place said from $2400 to $2800. but there was a 6 month waiting list, Due to not having enough gas bottles
in Victoria
in Victoria
CMF_Yom
» CMF MemberIf anything it would improve the weight distribution of the vehicle, making it have better handling. Or at least the potential. Spring rates would have to be tweaked to compensate.
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberCould pay for itself in 2 years and cut your fuel bill (even more) to about 1/2 what it is.
It is possible to get it converted to dedicated lpg and put the tank where the petrol tank is...but that is a bit more expensive than just fitting one into the spare wheel well. In either case you don't have much, if any space lost. Another option is to get a huge cylinder tank and have no space at all and be able to drive like 1500kms between refills.
Depending on the size and placement I would imagine handling would be affected accordingly.
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberI still would have thought the extra weight would be a penalty in performance.Might make a more 50/50 weight distribution but you don't see competition drivers adding dead weight just to achieve that.
Frank, our gas is (I think) around 54c a litre atm. You save by the cost of the gas but you actually use more gas per mile then the same amount of petrol.
I carry lots of stuff in my Micra, dogs, sailing gear,Whitegoods,(not all at once) with the seats put down flat (series 1) So for me it would a big loss to not have the carrying ability.
But as the saying goes "whatever floats your boat" if it meets your needs then it's the right thing to have.
Mychael
Frank, our gas is (I think) around 54c a litre atm. You save by the cost of the gas but you actually use more gas per mile then the same amount of petrol.
I carry lots of stuff in my Micra, dogs, sailing gear,Whitegoods,(not all at once) with the seats put down flat (series 1) So for me it would a big loss to not have the carrying ability.
But as the saying goes "whatever floats your boat" if it meets your needs then it's the right thing to have.
Mychael
CMF_frank2
» CMF Membermipcar
our gas is 34 to 49p/l,petrol/diesel 1 pound/l. my car is a bit of a "works van" as the photo,s show,with the 2/3 b/seat out i carry all sorts too.
a lot of our curriers run gas with 200l tanks and its popular with taxi drivers too!.
a professional conversion with the latest kit would cost 2 grand so you,wd have to be a high miler to justify it!
our gas is 34 to 49p/l,petrol/diesel 1 pound/l. my car is a bit of a "works van" as the photo,s show,with the 2/3 b/seat out i carry all sorts too.
a lot of our curriers run gas with 200l tanks and its popular with taxi drivers too!.
a professional conversion with the latest kit would cost 2 grand so you,wd have to be a high miler to justify it!
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CMF_frank2
» CMF Member
CMF_david (2)
» CMF Memberfrank2, is yours dedicated gas or dual fuel or does it mix the lpg with the petrol as it goes in...like diesel dual fuel?
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
i run with an empty p/tank and carry a can just incase, i think dual fuel means either, only diesel d/f i have come across is our (uk) listeriod combined heat and power setups.
btw i gas up after about 300 mls, the dohnut tanks are too small imo.
frank
i run with an empty p/tank and carry a can just incase, i think dual fuel means either, only diesel d/f i have come across is our (uk) listeriod combined heat and power setups.
btw i gas up after about 300 mls, the dohnut tanks are too small imo.
frank
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberThere is a thing with diesel that you get cleaner more complete fuel burn if you run a system that injects a small amount of gas into the fuel mix. I read about it in a four wheel drive mag. Not often seen though.
Dual fuel in the context of petrol mean you can run either petrol or gas.
Mychael
Dual fuel in the context of petrol mean you can run either petrol or gas.
Mychael
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberjust been thinkin! would gas be an option for a forced micra?
lpg thrives on high compression and spark advance and being vacuum controlled would,nt lean out at high boost?.
iv,e got 3 means of adjustment, low running,vacuum proportion and high rpm flow (the flow one lets me dump vast amounts of fuel)so no melted piston surely?
engine management costs would be low eh?
frank
lpg thrives on high compression and spark advance and being vacuum controlled would,nt lean out at high boost?.
iv,e got 3 means of adjustment, low running,vacuum proportion and high rpm flow (the flow one lets me dump vast amounts of fuel)so no melted piston surely?
engine management costs would be low eh?
frank
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberWhat sort of fuel efficiency do you get on lpg?
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
i read somewere that lpg has a higher calorific value than petrol, so ought to be higher efficiency? but my 2nd gen kit usually gives a 10% power loss.
later kits with 4 nozzles, controlled by the ecu are supposed to be =, it probably depends on the skill of the remapper!.
btw puzzlingly my super s stopped drinking oil on gas?
i read somewere that lpg has a higher calorific value than petrol, so ought to be higher efficiency? but my 2nd gen kit usually gives a 10% power loss.
later kits with 4 nozzles, controlled by the ecu are supposed to be =, it probably depends on the skill of the remapper!.
btw puzzlingly my super s stopped drinking oil on gas?
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberIs that 10% power loss accompanied by a 10% loss in fuel efficiency in terms of km/L in the real world (for you)?
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
yes sort of!
the gas is 1/3rd ish price,the milage is 2 1/2 ish more so (oo my brain has found a box full of neutrals!!)
we tend to use (### miles on a tenner) phrase locally!,so it,s hard to convert to your lingo,sorry!
btw the power drop is caused by the 12mm tube thats shoved into the venturi!
yes sort of!
the gas is 1/3rd ish price,the milage is 2 1/2 ish more so (oo my brain has found a box full of neutrals!!)
we tend to use (### miles on a tenner) phrase locally!,so it,s hard to convert to your lingo,sorry!
btw the power drop is caused by the 12mm tube thats shoved into the venturi!
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberI think gas has a higher anti-knock (detonation)rating then fuel but is also drier and your motor will run hotter.
Not sure about the calorific value, I always understood that nothing compares to petrol in the "bang per volume" ratio.
Engines designed and tuned to run solely on gas (not petrol at all) will apparently give same (or very close to) the same performance as their petrol counterparts but dual fuel vehicles are always a compromise.
A figure I was quoted for the dual fuel car I drive at work was that it has an (roughly) 9% lose of economy and performance on gas. This is with a fuel injected engine and the latest gas injection system.
In my opinion gas conversions really come into their own when used on large petrol guzzlers that have the space to carry a useful sized tank and a big enough motor that any power lose is not an inconvenience.
As an aside my mate found that with his carburettor fitted four wheel drive he was better off with gas on hot days and especially very steep angles (up or down) as he had no float bowl to be effected so did not get fuel starvation or flooding on the really acute angles like the carby cars still on petrol.
Mychael
Not sure about the calorific value, I always understood that nothing compares to petrol in the "bang per volume" ratio.
Engines designed and tuned to run solely on gas (not petrol at all) will apparently give same (or very close to) the same performance as their petrol counterparts but dual fuel vehicles are always a compromise.
A figure I was quoted for the dual fuel car I drive at work was that it has an (roughly) 9% lose of economy and performance on gas. This is with a fuel injected engine and the latest gas injection system.
In my opinion gas conversions really come into their own when used on large petrol guzzlers that have the space to carry a useful sized tank and a big enough motor that any power lose is not an inconvenience.
As an aside my mate found that with his carburettor fitted four wheel drive he was better off with gas on hot days and especially very steep angles (up or down) as he had no float bowl to be effected so did not get fuel starvation or flooding on the really acute angles like the carby cars still on petrol.
Mychael
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberWhat is a tenner? and how many miles do you get in one of those?
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
10 pounds, 260+ miles on a run or 220 miles on my daily back lane thrash to work.
frank
10 pounds, 260+ miles on a run or 220 miles on my daily back lane thrash to work.
frank
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberWow...if you assume price was 0.40 p/l and you got 240miles for 10p then thats about 6.5l/100kms. Impressive. I thought it would be worse than that for lpg let alone a second generation one. Good job.
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberI've got mine booked in for next monday to make it dual fuel...may be a while longer before I can use it if the tank doesn't fit.
CMF_Yom
» CMF MemberLooking forward to seeing this work. I think you're nuts but thats what makes it interesting!!
I'll be looking closely at lpg injection with my next vehicle. An underbelly 30L gas tank can improve fuel efficiency around 20% which means ~3L/100km in the case of the type of motor I'll be going with.
That really adds up after a bit. Also 20% power increases can be found from an NA diesel, so thats a bonus. The best part of the LPG injection is it doesn't stress the motor as much as say, a turbo kit. Turbos are great but for older motors they're not always the best idea. Plus, personal opinion, there's less to go wrong with a quality gas kit than a turbo. If the turbo fails, you could very well be stuck if you dont have the right bits and pieces to disable it and bypass it. If the gas system fails, the engine still runs on diesel at the normal rate.
Win? I think so.
Total cost for say a D-Gas kit for a TD42 Patrol is around $4300 depending on tank size - the larger the gas tank of course the longer it lasts when you're touring. Government rebate of course and then it starts to look quite attractive if you plan on keeping the vehicle for more than 4 years (average of 20,000km a year).
Slightly off topic but I guess yes I can see the method in your madness.
BTW the WA government gives you a further $1000 rebate I think?
I'll be looking closely at lpg injection with my next vehicle. An underbelly 30L gas tank can improve fuel efficiency around 20% which means ~3L/100km in the case of the type of motor I'll be going with.
That really adds up after a bit. Also 20% power increases can be found from an NA diesel, so thats a bonus. The best part of the LPG injection is it doesn't stress the motor as much as say, a turbo kit. Turbos are great but for older motors they're not always the best idea. Plus, personal opinion, there's less to go wrong with a quality gas kit than a turbo. If the turbo fails, you could very well be stuck if you dont have the right bits and pieces to disable it and bypass it. If the gas system fails, the engine still runs on diesel at the normal rate.
Win? I think so.
Total cost for say a D-Gas kit for a TD42 Patrol is around $4300 depending on tank size - the larger the gas tank of course the longer it lasts when you're touring. Government rebate of course and then it starts to look quite attractive if you plan on keeping the vehicle for more than 4 years (average of 20,000km a year).
Slightly off topic but I guess yes I can see the method in your madness.
BTW the WA government gives you a further $1000 rebate I think?
CMF_david (2)
» CMF Memberyep...extra $1000 rebate makes it about a $1200 outlay for me so should pay back within 2 years for me.
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
why not diy?
theres a link on the navitron site (4 to 600 pounds i think full kit!)
payback is months not years!
why not diy?
theres a link on the navitron site (4 to 600 pounds i think full kit!)
payback is months not years!
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberCMF_Yom
» CMF MemberYep it sure does. The only time you dont qualify for a rebate, AFAIK is when you purchase a brand new vehicle which is optional dual fuel or dedicated LPG. ie: Falcons, Commonwhores, etc.
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberI don't know for sure, but I think the rebate that we are eligible would not come into play then...also don't know for sure bit I think it has to be installed by a qualified person by law in Australia.
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberAlso, 4 to 600 pounds is about 1000 to 1500 Aus dollars which is in the range of what I will pay to get it done professionally.
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdavid
oh! i,ll shut my mouth then,diy in uk is legal but some insurance companies will insist on pro fit or pro after inspection.
good luck with yours, you won,t regret it!
oh! i,ll shut my mouth then,diy in uk is legal but some insurance companies will insist on pro fit or pro after inspection.
good luck with yours, you won,t regret it!
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberJust an update...it is still getting installed, but had trouble with the tank placement.
*Was not allowed to go where petrol tank is and make it dedicated gas as that is to close to the ground for regulations.
*Was not allowed to put it in the spare wheel well as there needs to be 20cm between the centre of the bumper and the tank.
*Only option left was a sausage tank behind the rear seats...which takes up more space than I would have liked but at least I get to pay $10 to fill the 25L tank.
*Was not allowed to go where petrol tank is and make it dedicated gas as that is to close to the ground for regulations.
*Was not allowed to put it in the spare wheel well as there needs to be 20cm between the centre of the bumper and the tank.
*Only option left was a sausage tank behind the rear seats...which takes up more space than I would have liked but at least I get to pay $10 to fill the 25L tank.
CMF_Sophie
» CMF Memberhello everyone....
We are a supplier of the auto gas electronic component in China, such as emulators, timing advance processors, gauges, switches and sensors, feed back control systems ,reducers and other components for all types of petrol engine vehicles (including carburetor and injection car). The products of LPG / CNG system produced by our company have been exported to many countries in the world. About the detail information of our company and products, please visit our website. We are export our products with other brands too, like OMVL, LANDI. So I believe we can supply you what you need both at a very good price and high technology products. In 2003, LAE obtained the ISO9001-2001 certification.
If you want, please contact me, I will send the electronic catalogue of our products to you.
Regardless whether we can co-operate or no, I really hope we can contact each other, maybe I can help you for your business in China.
Best regards to you for ever.
Yours,
Sophie
My msn:[email protected]
My Skype: zhuqin918
My email: [email protected]
Our company name: LIXUN AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRONIC CO., LTD
TEL: 86-573-82263952-8003 FAX: 86-573-82263951-8031
Website: www.lixun-ae.com
Add: No. 7 Tongle Road Jiaxing Zhejiang P.R. 314000 CHINA
We are a supplier of the auto gas electronic component in China, such as emulators, timing advance processors, gauges, switches and sensors, feed back control systems ,reducers and other components for all types of petrol engine vehicles (including carburetor and injection car). The products of LPG / CNG system produced by our company have been exported to many countries in the world. About the detail information of our company and products, please visit our website. We are export our products with other brands too, like OMVL, LANDI. So I believe we can supply you what you need both at a very good price and high technology products. In 2003, LAE obtained the ISO9001-2001 certification.
If you want, please contact me, I will send the electronic catalogue of our products to you.
Regardless whether we can co-operate or no, I really hope we can contact each other, maybe I can help you for your business in China.
Best regards to you for ever.
Yours,
Sophie
My msn:[email protected]
My Skype: zhuqin918
My email: [email protected]
Our company name: LIXUN AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRONIC CO., LTD
TEL: 86-573-82263952-8003 FAX: 86-573-82263951-8031
Website: www.lixun-ae.com
Add: No. 7 Tongle Road Jiaxing Zhejiang P.R. 314000 CHINA
CMF_Yom
» CMF MemberHello Sophie. Thats a wonderful offer you have there. But here in australia our government is very strict with LPG/gas installations. I highly doubt your components are tested and approved to operate under the Australian Design Rules (ADR). Unfortunately because of this there is simply not much point in offering your goods to us at this stage. Hopefully in the future you can get your products tested and passed in Australia as saleable items?
Much love from Australia,
Yommie bear.
Much love from Australia,
Yommie bear.
smidge
» CMF MemberSO asian! Luk Sik Luk Wuk Fuc Lik DOMAH
CMF_mipcar
» CMF MemberAt least it's car related. On another forum I am on which is about boats and boating, we get all kinds of crap advertising from people registering to the forum just to try to sell their junk. Not even anything to do with boating.
Hope the trend does not start here.
Mychael
Hope the trend does not start here.
Mychael
CMF_Yom
» CMF MemberNeed to stock up on the viagra mychael? 
CMF_david (2)
» CMF Member
CMF_mipcar
» CMF Member
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberPower seems normal...there is a bit of a jolt when it switches between petrol and lpg.
CMF_frank2
» CMF Memberdivid
that was short and sweet !
do you have to start it on petrol ?
is it multipoint ?
how does it compare $/km ?
a pic would be nice !
that was short and sweet !
do you have to start it on petrol ?
is it multipoint ?
how does it compare $/km ?
a pic would be nice !
CMF_david (2)
» CMF MemberBecause I don't know much yet...filled up the first time yesterday...well thought I did...not sure.
I think it is a third or fourth generation kit...I assume it is multipoint. $/km will have to wait till i get this filling sorted out (at least consistent)...and do some more driving.
Pics are coming.
Oh...it starts on petrol for between 30 seconds and a minute or so...until the lpg automatically takes over unless I press a button to override it.
I think it is a third or fourth generation kit...I assume it is multipoint. $/km will have to wait till i get this filling sorted out (at least consistent)...and do some more driving.
Pics are coming.
Oh...it starts on petrol for between 30 seconds and a minute or so...until the lpg automatically takes over unless I press a button to override it.
