Help ...K11 Front Disc Brakes

CMF_micrafun2

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Hi All

I am replacing front disc and pads.
I am also replacing nearside passenger drive shaft.

Need help with the torque settings for K11 front disc brakes for
1) Caliper Bolts
2) Brake Pad Carrier Bolts

And also bottom of suspension - two bolts seen here:
http://www.micra.com.au/community/me...essageid=51809

Second Picture, two bolts shown at the top, one standing up.

Also need some pointers - how to unstick a disc which has rusted onto hub.

Thanks in advance.
 

CMF_asdame

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i usually tighten them bolts by striking the spanner with my palm till i can't tighten it anymore or till it feels reasonably tight. i'll check the required torque value later if needed.

the pic link ain't working

if the old discs gona be replaced, gradually strike the edge with a metal hammer, rotate the disc few degrees then strike again till it loosens. ya don't wanna wreck the bearings by wacking the disc full force.

i just use the halfords 80w-90 gearbox oil, works fine.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Tks asdame.
Useful tip on tightening with the spanner.
Yeah please on the torque figure for the three bolts.
12mm head = caliper, 17mm head = brake pad carrier and 17mm head for the two bolts in the link below. Second picture.

https://micra.org.uk/cmf/message/51809

I've tried tapping the disc with a hammer - and then some more.
Also I've sprayed plus gas behind the disc. Will try again tomorrow.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Is it practical to replace the first two bolts with new ones.
I think the dealer price on these will be too much.
Where should I look for replacement to similar specification.

Is it high tensile etc
 

CMF_asdame

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caliper to guide pin = 27nm
caliper mount to hub = 59nm
susp strut to hub = 118nm

you could replace the strut to hub bolts from nissan only if they're really rusted or wrecked but last time i brought some rear trailing arm bolts from them they were absolute fortune.

if they're just dirty n surface rust/grit, i ended up getting a M12x1.25 thread die to clean up/retap the bolt, good as new.

costed about £50 but its useful to retap like the steering arm, wheel nut thread, rear trailing arm bolts, etc

or wirebrush the threads
 

CMF_micrafun2

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asdame
Tks for the torque info.

Threads are fine. Its the heads that are soft. They are OK this time, will be difficult to remove next time.

I could file the head to next size down and cover with lacquer to protect. What do you think.

Whats the significance of the castellated head of the suspension to hub bolts.

Europart have given me incorrect drive shaft. Its an inch too long on the passenger side compared to what came out of the car.

Danny
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Update:
Have now returned the incorrect drive shaft.
In its place, have now got a CV joint.
Unfortunately, this has the ABS cog wheel.
Does anybody know if this will be ok to fit on my non ABS drive shaft and wheel hub.

Danny
 

CMF_asdame

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whenever you loosen or tighten nut/bolts that require high torque especially seized ones, always use a 6 sided socket to prevent rounding the heads

if they're already rouded off from a 12sided spanner, i'd replace em with new ones or good condition ones from scrappy, remember to always clean/retap then copper grease the threads and head/nut. makes future removal much easier.

no point reducing the head size cos it'll just round off easier from the high torque.

the castellated nuts are usually found on the lower balljoint and steering rod balljoint for the splitpin to go through the male thread and lock the nut in place. works like any other nut so can be used on the susp to hub bolt.

the abs cog is simply press fitted onto the shaft and can easily be hammered out with a socket entension or metal pole.

pic of cog removed from rear hub
 

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CMF_micrafun2

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asdame
Thanks for very useful info.

Thats interesting - what you say about the 6 sided sockets.
I had one 17mm one from a Halfords set and I used that first. But it didnt fit the off side fully - due to reduced access. Socket wall was also too thick.

I am thinking of getting Sealey Impact sockets - a set of deep and standard sockets. These are all thick walled sockets.

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/N...rive-Deep-Impact-Sockets/?SEAAK68156&0&t5_104
These are £98. 1/2 drive.

http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/c/N...ir-Power-Tools/Socket-Sets/?SEAAK681&0&t5_143
This one is £69.1/2 and 3/8 drive.

Are these reasonable - or is there a better set - if so let me know pls.

Danny
 

CMF_asdame

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i have a halfords socket set too. 17mm 6sided long socket with long extension and the breaker bar & wd40 worked fine for me

how do you mean the long 6 sided socket didn't fit on the o/s?
ya mean the long socket was being obstructed by the 2nd lower strut-hub bolt? (take out the bolt)
 

CMF_micrafun2

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The off side - where I couldnt access the bolt easily due to the suspension bolt - thats sorted now. I didnt think abvout taking out the bolt - but next time I will.

I really have to concentrate on near side fused rusted on disc.

I take it that the Sealey impact sets are good enough.
Snap on and Facom are better. But they cost lot more.
 

CMF_asdame

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if you clean up the threads and grease up the nut bolt, you wont need to take the strut-hub bolt off next time. just a good fit 17mm spanner and a several strikes with a hammer/hand will do since they'll be less seized.

haven't used any of those tools, just the halfords i currently have

tip about threads. always wirebrush clean the exposed rusted/dirty threads then wd40 before undoing the nut, otherwise dirt'll trap and jam the threads therefore more likey to round off the seized nut bolt

upon screwing in, if the nut/bolt starts to resist or feel gritty before the nut even touches the surface, then there's dirt or rust on the threads. take out and reclean/wirebrush/retap and regrease.

any nut bolt should screw together smoothly before it touches the surface and tightens

this'll reduce the chance of seizing nuts next time.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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asdame
Many tks.
Now waiting to free the rusted disc.
Clean the bolts before refitting.

I've resisted buying expensive tools - that I wont use too often.
The impact socket sets and the tap and die might come under this category. I've used a range of stainless nut and bolts as my cheap version of tap and die. I know ... its not quite the job.

Danny
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Update:
Rusted disc is free now.
Looks like I will need a new bearing.
Hammering to free a rusty disc is a big NO NO.
Ah well...

I have now replaced my first CV joint onto a drive shaft.
Woot! Woot!
This is quite advanced work for me!!
I am about to put back the passenger side drive shaft.
I cannot clearly see into the gear box.
Is there normally an oil seal there?
If so, I am not thinking of replacing it.
What do people think?
Is it recommended to replace it to avoid losing gearbox oil?

Asdame, if you are looking at this post, pls give me an indication on torque setting for the drive shaft main nut - which is the first one you remove to get the whole thing started off.

Also the supplied nut feels quite stiff to fit on to the drive shaft. Is this normal? Is it like the crank shaft pulley bolt - is it what some people call a pinch bolt?

Danny
 

CMF_asdame

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hey danny

what happened to the bearing? ya didn't hammer the disc off with the driveshaft out did ya? cos that holds the hub together and so hub would pop off if knocked (found that out the hard way one time when my stripped micra with no driveshaft collapsed onto the floor as i push it round a corner, oops, and had to replace both hubs)

you'll get better and learn alot the more you do and learn from mistakes

was it a 2nd hand driveshaft you replaced? they usually spray paint the exposed metal ends to prevent rust, did ya carefully dremel wirebrush it off smooth where the oilseal would contact?

there's an inner driveshaft oilseal in the gearbox. unless it was leaking before or you've wrecked it during removal they're reusable. replacement is up to you.

when reinserting the shaft into the gearbox, put a dab of grease around the spring c-clip at the end of the driveshaft end to keep it centred on the shaft whilst inserting. takes abit of a shuv to click the shaft in put but if it doesn't budge, take it out and re-centre the clip. you don't wanna bend this clip with too much force.

the big driveshaft to hub end nut is a mighty 177nm

stiff nut is not normal. that big nut should glide into place with ur fingers no probs. take it out and reclean threads. if its a pinch locking nut you should see the lip end pinched in by a hammer, just un-pinch it and see if it glides back in. if its still resistive, try ur old nut.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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asdame
Many thanks for the detailed reply.
In the back of my head, I knew that I must not hammer the disc.
But I thought it will take only one or two knocks.

I also tried heat on to the disc from a butane torch on it for 3 mins. Not recommended.

What worked: two G Clamps, 6 inch mouths, put the wheel nuts on loose ie not all the way, put a second disc on backwards - or a drilled metal plate, on studs and tighten evenly with the G clamps. I dont think this would have stressed the bearing.

I bought a new outer cv joint from europarts. The new supplied nut does not go onto the shaft without using force. And similarly, the old nut does not go on to the shaft easily. Just wondering what a garage would do. Some ideas would be helpful.

Both the nuts fit easily on the old CV joint shaft!

Danny

 

CMF_asdame

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hmm gr8 tip with the 2disc & g clamp method.

if the old and new nut fits on the old shaft and not the new then sounds like the thread of the new shaft is dirty/rusted or damaged. inspect closely all along the thread for any defects. wirebrush it thoroughly and maybe even get a garage/machine shop to retap the driveshaft thread.

before installing the new discs, remember to wirebrush the hub face till its smooth n shiney then copper grease the hub face so that next time it doesn't fuse back on again.

also i tend to spray paint the exposed parts of new discs to prevent em rusting on the first drop of water.
 

CMF_asdame

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micrafun2 WROTE:

"Have I got to use a pair of pickle forks

<a href="http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht118-tie-rodball-joint-splitter-set" title="http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht118-tie-rodball-joint-splitter-set" target="_blank">http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht118-tie-rodball-joint-splitter-set</a>

to separate the claw from the

a)wishbone arm ball joint

b)steering track rod ball joint?

Have I got any other options?

I cant really see what part of the ball joint to separate on each.

Some pointers would be appreciated.

Danny
Click to expand...

oh god DO NOT use that wedge splitter!

they are guaranteed to split and wreck ur balljoint rubber boots before releasing the balljoint shaft from the hub, which would result in buying new lower arms or new steer rod ends. steer well away from them

use this one for better results

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cht222-ball-joint-remover

 

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CMF_micrafun2

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asdame
Tks for the pictures and the pointer on the ball joint remover.

The pictures tell me that the ball joints are always attached to the wishbone arm or the track rod arm.

Silly question time!!

So how would I use the tool in your pic?
Is the idea to fit the mouth of the tool onto the bush that you want to keep intact? Or is it to force the joint apart?

Danny
 

CMF_asdame

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balljoint always stays intact. the tool simply pushes apart the lower arm assem and trackrod end assem off the hub.

what i do is lightly grease the fork fingers of the seperator (so it slides smoothly past the rubber boot), unscrew the bolt to open the jaw, shuffle the fork finger fully in between the rubber boot and wheel hub, tighten bolt to close jaw and force the balljoint shaft off from the hub.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Update:

In removing the wishbone nut, I had to file out the R Clip. Because it was rusted. Does not look as if I will be able to drill or punch a hole. My cordless drill is too slow to clear the hole and the punch with a small screw driver has not yielded a result.

My question: Is the ball joint a press fit or is it removable without removing the wishbone arm?

Or the other option would be to put a lock nut on top. (and pre drill through the lock nut)
 

CMF_asdame

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micrafun2 WROTE:

"Update:

In removing the wishbone nut, I had to file out the R Clip. Because it was rusted. Does not look as if I will be able to drill or punch a hole. My cordless drill is too slow to clear the hole and the punch with a small screw driver has not yielded a result.

My question: Is the ball joint a press fit or is it removable without removing the wishbone arm?

Or the other option would be to put a lock nut on top. (and pre drill through the lock nut)
Click to expand...

the balljoint is press fitted onto the arm. if the balljoint boot or thread is damaged i usually just replace the whole arm for £18.

if the joint is ok, buying an m12 1.25 die tool is useful for retapping the balljoint thread with that rusted bit of lockpin left behind and obstructing the nut. die could also be used on the steering rack, wheel studs, etc

you can use a nylon lock nut no probs
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Yeah... where can I get an arm for £18?

About wishbone ball joint: Thread is ok. I think it might be a high tensile steel. partly exlains why its difficult to drill thorough. I think dremel would work because its much higher rpm.

Nylon lock nut is great idea.
 

CMF_asdame

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ebay item 170469968971
hmm prices gone up since last time

the softer lockpin should be easier to drill through than the harder balljoint steel. a good very hard & sharp drill bit & tapping lube makes easy work of the lockpin. be careful with such thin drillbits to use plenty of lube, medium speed (high speeds just burns off the lube, overheats and blunts the tip) and only light/medium pressure cos if that bit snaps off inside the hole, ur in trouble and need to replace the arm.

i also used a dremal for such delicate operation and a fine set of bits using only light pressure n patience (let the tool do the work)
 

CMF_micrafun2

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I was thinking that to refill the gear box oil would be fairly straight forward.
I cannot see the 3/8 fill plug on the front of the gear box.
I think that means I have to open the speedo drive cable near to the starter motor.

Mine is a Feb 1998 Micra K11.

To open the speedo cable, is it a nut to be turned and the speedo cable pulled out? Or is it just a pull only.

Could somebody confirm that speedo cable was the standard way of filling up the gearbox before Nissan designed a filler plug on front of the gearbox. And when it says in quotes below, "replace speedo cable" it means re fit the cable, NOT fit a new speedo cable - please, I dont want to buy a new speedo cable.

And then its about 3L of oil through a funnel and small bore tube.
Or a syphon from a 5L container to the gearbox.
Are there any other options. That would be a long tea break!

Quote: Re-filling your 1998 1.0 Micra gearbox is achieved by removing the speedometer drive cable from the rear of the gearbox adjacent to the startermotor solonoid, it is held in place by 1 x 10mm bolt.(It is tricky to get access to) Re-fill with 3.3 litres of fresh 80W90 gear oil after draining, and replace the speedo drive cable. Some 1998 onward models already changed to a different filler plug located much lower down in the gearbox housing and far easier to locate and access. It can be recognised as a round plug requiring a 3/8 inch square drive ratchet wrench to remove / re-tighten. Similar looking to the drain plug which requires a 1/2 inch square drive ratchet wrench to release and re-tighten. It is located toward the front of the engine about 4 inches from the bottom edge of the gearbox close to the drain plug. Unquote
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Tks asdame. I didnt think about the hardness of the steel compared to the split pin. I think a 2mm drill bit if I can get it with dremel should do it. Any idea - proprietary names of drilling lube and where to source it.

I think it would be cheaper to buy the whole arm for £18 than buy the dremel! Haha - makes me laugh
 

CMF_asdame

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my 98 slx box also filled up via speedo hole.

unscrew speedo cable from the cover.
simply remove 10mm bolt, i tap on the edge of cover to loosen (if stuck) and rotate the lip (where the bolt goes through) to the edge of gearbox casing so i could grab it and pull straight out.

i use a long narrow pvc tube (from a bog roll stand :p) and funnel to fill the box. you fill it till its like 3-5cm?(cant remember) from the bottom of the hole, or till the speedo gear is submerged in oil.

refit speedo gear, bolt up, and screw speedo cable back in.

tip about speedo cable: it has a notch at the end to match the speedo gear hole so may be tricky to refit cable back onto the gear but i just pull the cable out like 1-2cm hold with fingers, rotate to roughly match the speedo gear slot position, engage the notched cable onto the speedo hole then screw the speedo outer cable to the cover.

if ur not gona be using a dremel or a M12 tap/die much in future then yea its best to just replace the arm
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Update:
3mm drill has cleared the old split pin.
Thks for the tips on lube and drilling.
Oil is now drained clear.
Speedo cable is open.
New bearing has been pressed in.

Tea and cake is the reward!!

First I must fit the drive shaft.

Planning to use spare washing machine hose. This is 3/8 inch inside dia hose. This is going to be taped up to a funnel make a leak proof pipe to deliver oil to the gear box. Well ... it will be leak proof for 5 min. Then I am hoping to have 1L+1L+0.8L in one litre jugs ready to fill up box. Hope it goes smoothly!!

I am going to use the end of the hose as a dip stick to get the level right.

If there is another better way do let me know.
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Drive shaft inserted, oil now filled, thanks asdame for the tips on removing speedo cable.

I took advantage of the removed claw to make it easy to fit the drive shaft with the claw. This is the claw fitted back temporarily -but main ball joint nut does not tighten up easily. This is due to limited access to the nut. Also have limited access because I now have an ABS ring on the outer CV joint. When I offered it to the claw, it did not present a problem so I left it on. Have not been able to use a socket and wrench.

Maybe tomorrow, I will tighten up the wishbone ball joint and torque up the nuts and then insert the drive shaft.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 

CMF_asdame

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hi

yea i'd tighten balljoint nut first (i think when i last did mine the strut to hub and trackrod end was bolted up and steering lock engaged so that the hub is fixed in place to tighten the balljoint nut). install new lockpin.

remove strut to hub bolts, pull hub away far as possible

then install driveshaft into gearbox first, then hub

if you don't have abs system you could hammer the abs ring off the driveshaft

refit strut to hub bolts, tighten

refit driveshaft nut, apply brake pressure to restrain hub (with rod against pedal & seat or with assistant), tighten nut

thats a useful tip, using the hose end as a level indicator
 

CMF_micrafun2

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Asdame
What are the torque settings:
a) wishbone ball joint
b) track road ball joint

Is there any simple way of setting up tracking - roughly as a first attempt.
Accurate tracking will be done by garage on their tracking machine.

Danny
 
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