Have I got the only Micra that won't handbrake turn?

reflexuk

reflexuk

Because I find it nigh on impossible to do a handbrake turn (and I need to be able to) today I extended my handbrake with a piece of ally tube. The first time I go to try locking up the rear I bend the piggin handbrake lever! The back brakes are working normally with 2mm or so of lining left, the drums aren't heavily worn or grooved etc.
What could be wrong that make my handbrake so sh1t?

Part of the answer - I am sat very low and back, which means I can't get too much power into the pull.
I am usually running good tyres, none of this 155 stuff, 175 semi slicks or 185 soft gravel tyres usually.

The shoes are of an unknown brand and at least 4 yrs old (car has been off the road for 3) do they slowly age like tyres do?

But there must be more to it
 
reflexuk said:
Because I find it nigh on impossible to do a handbrake turn (and I need to be able to) today I extended my handbrake with a piece of ally tube. The first time I go to try locking up the rear I bend the piggin handbrake lever! The back brakes are working normally with 2mm or so of lining left, the drums aren't heavily worn or grooved etc.
What could be wrong that make my handbrake so sh1t?

Part of the answer - I am sat very low and back, which means I can't get too much power into the pull.
I am usually running good tyres, none of this 155 stuff, 175 semi slicks or 185 soft gravel tyres usually.

The shoes are of an unknown brand and at least 4 yrs old (car has been off the road for 3) do they slowly age like tyres do?

But there must be more to it
Click to expand...


With a hydraulic handbrake i could get 195 tyres to lock and skid around reflex, though that was with no Nissan rear bias compensator, just a Tilton bias valve to the rear disc's
 
Belly93 said:
you got a link or where can i find one ?
Click to expand...
http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/rally/brake-bias-valves/tilton-brake-bias-adjuster-valve-screw-type
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-proportioning-valves

Couple of things to think of mate:

You will need to T the rear brake lines into one through the bias valve and then T them out to the rear drums/discs
You wont have a split brake system anymore
You will need to adjust it when you load the car up dending on passengers etc
 
Skinner_87 said:
http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/rally/brake-bias-valves/tilton-brake-bias-adjuster-valve-screw-type
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-proportioning-valves

Couple of things to think of mate:

You will need to T the rear brake lines into one through the bias valve and then T them out to the rear drums/discs
You wont have a split brake system anymore
You will need to adjust it when you load the car up dending on passengers etc
Click to expand...
plan is to only have the front seats at some point anyway :)
 
Skinner_87 said:
http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/rally/brake-bias-valves/tilton-brake-bias-adjuster-valve-screw-type
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/brake-proportioning-valves

Couple of things to think of mate:

You will need to T the rear brake lines into one through the bias valve and then T them out to the rear drums/discs
You wont have a split brake system anymore
You will need to adjust it when you load the car up dending on passengers etc
Click to expand...
ports size? m10 or 3/8 inch
 
i always found the drum handbrake to be alot grippier than disc handbrake cos of the self-energizing nature of drum brakes.
before spending more money on bias valves etc to band-aid the problem I'd first try find out what the primary cause is.

check drums: brake surface within spec, not scored, overheated, glazed or oily.

check shoe: above min thickness, not cracked, glazed, signs of oily residue. check its not rusted onto the backplate.

check both cables aren't seized.

check self-adjuster is ratcheting freely with no stiffness at all. I personally prefer to overhaul em during service to ensure they're working. they ensure the shoes are always 1-click away from the drum but the threads prone to gunking up from dust and fail to maintain the gap.
when that happens the only way to apply sufficient mechanical braking is to pull on the "shoes" handbrake - lever arm more (by tightening the cable end nut n shortening the length) up to a point until it reaches the end limit of its stroke and you can't pull the drum lever enough to make up for the seized self-adjuster even though the "drivers" handbrake lever is fully engaged

so I'd suggest remove the self-adjuster,
  • clean n regrease the ratchet thread and screw it all the way in to reset it,
  • fully loosen the handbrake cable end nut,
  • clean the shoes n drums grease-free,
  • reassemble brakes, wheel on,
  • tighten the cable nut till you feel slight resistance just before the 1st click,
  • now to config the self-adjuster that we've reset, just crank the drivers handbrake lever up/down several times keeping the button depressed obviously, you'll faintly hear the sprung ratchet mechanism in the drums 'click' when releasing, which is the ratchet nut gradually unscrewing and positioning the shoes closer to the drum. keep cranking till you hear no more clicking and the handbrake lever will feel tighter within 8 clicks
 
pollyp said:
i always found the drum handbrake to be alot grippier than disc handbrake cos of the self-energizing nature of drum brakes.
before spending more money on bias valves etc to band-aid the problem I'd first try find out what the primary cause is.

check drums: brake surface within spec, not scored, overheated, glazed or oily.

check shoe: above min thickness, not cracked, glazed, signs of oily residue. check its not rusted onto the backplate.

check both cables aren't seized.

check self-adjuster is ratcheting freely with no stiffness at all. I personally prefer to overhaul em during service to ensure they're working. they ensure the shoes are always 1-click away from the drum but the threads prone to gunking up from dust and fail to maintain the gap.
when that happens the only way to apply sufficient mechanical braking is to pull on the "shoes" handbrake - lever arm more (by tightening the cable end nut n shortening the length) up to a point until it reaches the end limit of its stroke and you can't pull the drum lever enough to make up for the seized self-adjuster even though the "drivers" handbrake lever is fully engaged

so I'd suggest remove the self-adjuster,
  • clean n regrease the ratchet thread and screw it all the way in to reset it,
  • fully loosen the handbrake cable end nut,
  • clean the shoes n drums grease-free,
  • reassemble brakes, wheel on,
  • tighten the cable nut till you feel slight resistance just before the 1st click,
  • now to config the self-adjuster that we've reset, just crank the drivers handbrake lever up/down several times keeping the button depressed obviously, you'll faintly hear the sprung ratchet mechanism in the drums 'click' when releasing, which is the ratchet nut gradually unscrewing and positioning the shoes closer to the drum. keep cranking till you hear no more clicking and the handbrake lever will feel tighter within 8 clicks
Click to expand...

cheers for that guide pollyp :)will do that to mine soooon :)
 
WHaaaaaaaaaa this guy just backed me 100 :) new era r-reg fully fledge spread out the wings and aim the droping on they head
 
Thanks for the detailed reply Polly
Here's mine as at last time they were open, about 6 weeks ago, see anything to be concerned about? I didn't.
20120805_143151.jpg
 
My lever doesn't come up too far or anything, it's fully on in about 4-5 clicks, I just don't seem to get the shoe to drum grip I feel they should make. I don't think the auto adjuster is siezed, though I didn't alter the adjustment or grease it. I'm always frugal with grease in drum brakes because of a fear of it melting and running onto the shoes. I abraded the drum inside with sandpaper so I doubt it's glazing, no lip to speak of, certainly not difficult to remove. I don't know the min friction thickness though, run 'em 'til they scrape eh? VBaffling
 
the rears are only single leading shoe, you could get more leverage by moving that fulcrum upwards (arrowed) .
and always make sure the arm at the bottom of the fulcrum is fully retracted before adjusting the cable and ratchet eh

brake.jpg
 
frank said:
the rears are only single leading shoe, you could get more leverage by moving that fulcrum upwards (arrowed) .
and always make sure the arm at the bottom of the fulcrum is fully retracted before adjusting the cable and ratchet eh

View attachment 21132
Click to expand...
How would I move that fulcrum upward Frank?

My white micra used to be good at H/B turns, that's how I bent my first rear axle:oops: I think I still have it's shoes somewere. If I can find them I'm going to swap them in and do a propper rebuild with a reset greasy adjuster and everything.
 
I have a disc rear axle..... handbrake was poo so put bias valve and hydrolic handbrake on.... still poo :( then changed the cylinder on the handbrake to a smaller size .... a little better but not good!! So whats next ??? bigger brakes or more aggressive pads hummmm
 
sterry9454 said:
I have a disc rear axle..... handbrake was poo so put bias valve and hydrolic handbrake on.... still poo :( then changed the cylinder on the handbrake to a smaller size .... a little better but not good!! So whats next ??? bigger brakes or more aggressive pads hummmm
Click to expand...

The mechanical handbrake is just about good enough as a parking brake, that's it. The standard rear calipers only have single 30mm piston, so even with a small after market hydraulic handbrake cylinder they aren't particularly powerful. Probably good on loose stages but pretty lousy on a tarmac stage I would imagine.

At some point we will be working on a 2 pot rear caliper setup but this is not a priority for us and will likely be cost prohibitive to most.

Matt Humphris sell Mintex M1144 and M1155 pads for the rear oem calipers, which maybe an option.....not sure if they will offer much in the way of cold bite over an oem pad though....
 
We use 1144 on the front :) but didnt want to over power the rear... Handbrake is only used for autotests and a last minute "oh **** grab" if anything goes wrong so im not worried massively the way our brakes are set up they are very nicely balanced so dont really want to compromise that for a handbrake however it would be nice if it was to work a little better :)
 
reflexuk said:
How would I move that fulcrum upward Frank?

My white micra used to be good at H/B turns, that's how I bent my first rear axle:oops: I think I still have it's shoes somewere. If I can find them I'm going to swap them in and do a propper rebuild with a reset greasy adjuster and everything.
Click to expand...
its only a notch cut into the shoe eh, just grind it further up :)
 
any chance theyz corrosion or you cables are stiking stuk,you wont have a handbrake that works.
i had a very slight cut in one my drum brake cable and that was enough to rust inside and stop anything working.

i checked all the cables were free on my discus axle before installing all was checked (taa P). it now locks rear wheels up on 2-3 click in the dry, less click on wet on 185's too. got the axle with everything didnt even change discs or pads upto today and theyr worn.
 
That's interesting, drums usually beat discs in a handbrake contest.

R-REG-SR said:
any chance theyz corrosion or you cables are stiking stuk,you wont have a handbrake that works.
i had a very slight cut in one my drum brake cable and that was enough to rust inside and stop anything working.

i checked all the cables were free on my discus axle before installing all was checked (taa P). it now locks rear wheels up on 2-3 click in the dry, less click on wet on 185's too. got the axle with everything didnt even change discs or pads upto today and theyr worn.
Click to expand...
 

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