Gutted - what happened?

Vulture20

Vulture20

Hi Folks

We were all set to go last night. Ingliston Stages are on Saturday, the new engine was in and running ok, the graphics were finished.

Last 2 jobs - adjust the ignition timing and put the sumpguard back on.

We had done about 40 miles on the new engine (bought on ebay as a rally engine - 13 engine, 1.0 pistons, skimmed & flowed head) and it felt strong, just a little flat.

I adjusted the timing, the engine seemed smoother. Went out for a test run. after 200m there was a new rattle/rubbing noise. Not sure where it came from. After 500m the engine blew smoke and died.

The catch tank from the head is getting oil, the engine turns over but is dead.

Another thing - I think I had a blond moment and timed it to 16 degrees BTDC on Number 4, not number 1. ooops.

What are your thoughts? We haven't had time to get the head off. Was the noise the timing chain tensioner? Could the ignition be that far out and cause the damage?

Cheers
Jools
 
That's good to know, Frank - I couldn't understand why it would run sweetly if it was so far out! Not sure of smoke colour, I didn't see it (my son was the pilot at the time).

My suspicion is the cam chain has failed, but I have no solid evidence. Is there a tensioner? If so that could have been the noise as it failed.
 
Vulture20 said:
That's good to know, Frank - I couldn't understand why it would run sweetly if it was so far out! Not sure of smoke colour, I didn't see it (my son was the pilot at the time).

My suspicion is the cam chain has failed, but I have no solid evidence. Is there a tensioner? If so that could have been the noise as it failed.
Click to expand...
there are 2 tensioners and 2 chains, but it would tend to just die suddenly then have no compression (without smoking)
sounds more like pinking/detonation and ringland failure to me
 
best to try a compression test 1st really mate, but oil in the catchcan is a worrying sign tho, did you lock the ecu timing when adjusting it (or use software to display the ecu timing ?)
 
the ecu manipulates the timing sometimes @ idle, so you have to "lock" the base timing by disconnecting the t/p/s and blip the throttle a few times (ecu setting mode) but that is subject to a properly adjusted idle control valve, i prefer to plug in the lappy and run the ecu spark output/dial , and sync the dial to the strobe
 
Thanks Frank. From what you've said it seems that I didn't directly cause the failure, it was something not right in the engine. Ah well, we'll maybe have a look at the weekend.

Cheers
Jools
 
you may have strobe-set the timing @ 16 deg while the ecu was running 6 deg jools ? you can see on this vid that the idle is running at 6 or 8 deg, then when i ease the clutch out to stall the engine the ecu increases the timing to 18 deg to stop the engine from stalling, then i dip the clutch and the timing drops back down, (mine has no idle control valve tho)

 
That's possible Frank. I never realised this could be a problem. I've set the timing like this on previous engines without any problems. What damage could that cause?
 
detting usually breaks the ringlands mate http://www.micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=83487
done a few myself :) and oil spray from the top breather is what i,ve been dreading for the last 18 months *fingers crossed*
corsa pistons seem to have stronger ringlands, you can see that 1 of mine suffered the characteristic det pock-marks when i cooked the engine, but the ringlands survived ok

P3300743.JPG
 
Sigh. So, get the head off and have a look. I'll come back to you Frank when we have a rebuilt/replacement engine and get you to advise how to set it up!

With a standard ECU (just with NATS removed) I don't think we can use a software package - the car is too early for the OBD2 or whatever type of connection.

Cheers
Jools
 
Vulture20 said:
Sigh. So, get the head off and have a look. I'll come back to you Frank when we have a rebuilt/replacement engine and get you to advise how to set it up!

With a standard ECU (just with NATS removed) I don't think we can use a software package - the car is too early for the OBD2 or whatever type of connection.

Cheers
Jools
Click to expand...
mine,s obd1 with a cheap diag connector and free software jools http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/tost-the-official-spam-thread.53370/page-63#post-651217
you will need to run some retard with 1.0 pistons really (or better still a nistune board) mine ran 109hp with some subtle mods, which is at the limit of the stock sparkmap :)
 
frank said:
detting usually breaks the ringlands mate http://www.micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=83487
done a few myself :) and oil spray from the top breather is what i,ve been dreading for the last 18 months *fingers crossed*
corsa pistons seem to have stronger ringlands, you can see that 1 of mine suffered the characteristic det pock-marks when i cooked the engine, but the ringlands survived ok

View attachment 30093
Click to expand...
I think that is your mapping frank :D it does do wonders ey
 
@Vulture20 (my old man) is away enjoying himself on holiday, hence the lack of reply!

After a bit more reading/investigating, it's looking like it was pre-detonation that killed it. Had a chat with Matt Humphries and all the signs point that way.
So, as a result from the same phonecall the new GA14 block (from a 7k auto!) arrived a couple of days ago and now waiting to bolt the CG13 head on.

Yet another engine swap. Sigh.
 
The Cg13 head won't fit a GA14. The foot print is different for one, and a lot of the coolant and oil pathways do not line up. Me and @h701micra have looked at this a little bit.
 
Double checked with Matt, and the 1340 bottom end with 1275 non-coilpack head has been done many times. Just need to use the 1340 head gasket.

Well, the proof is in the doing so watch this space. Once Junior (RawbertM) has his uni dissertation out the way we'll get on with Molly.

Cheers
J
 
Vulture20 said:
Double checked with Matt, and the 1340 bottom end with 1275 non-coilpack head has been done many times. Just need to use the 1340 head gasket.

Well, the proof is in the doing so watch this space. Once Junior (RawbertM) has his uni dissertation out the way we'll get on with Molly.

Cheers
J
Click to expand...

i,ve always used the stock head gasket J :)
 

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