EPS Power steering column, what ACTUALLY goes wrong?

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Thanks Jason for all your help, advice and knowledge regarding the defunct EPS on my K12. Today I fitted the unit you supplied and I now have power steering again.
Anyone with EPS issues please ask Jason first before talking to anyone else. Top genuine guy, a real asset to the club👍👍👍👍👍many thanks.
Thank you James
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
1). Like kilstrom, would it essentially be the same thing for Japanese EPS? That is, a transplant with known-working used units will (should) get rid of the PS light? No other work / considerations required? My 12SR does not have the smartkey / proximity feature, being a 2005.
Yes, the MMJ Unit was also not Paired to the vehicle. Its not the EPS that decides this, all EPS has the functionality and is sitting there dormant if the BCM does not request it. Normally the PS light is very self sufficient to the EPS, either the EPS is sending the CAN message to illuminate the PS light or their is no Message so it defaults to illuminate. So i would say yes, a replacement eps would work. The ignition has no impact to EPS, and is fitted on the EPS regardless of what type.

2). Active straight ahead position phase angle. Is this something I should be wary of for Japanese EPS as well? Assuming I went down the transplant route, how would one be able to 'center' this with the transplanted unit?

As long as you fit it correctly with the Big Spline up and have not disassemble the gearbox from the column the system will reset ASP it self once the battery is reconnected

3). You mentioned tuning. The 12SR being a performance model, is it possible to 'clone' the performance tune to a transplanted part (from a non-performance model) with your magic? Any possibility of doing this long-distance?
No, this is an option you can select, although you could potentially do this via CAN messages, you'll need to know other stuff, like Software version.... etc.. There was a KW way of doing this, this is how the dash manufactured selected the Tune for the Dash install. So for your info, when the Micra was manufactured, we sent the system to the dash manufactures and they installed the EPS into the dash selected the Tune In accordance with the JIT schedule issued by Nissan. So there was a KW protocol that did this, would need to look at the paperwork I have, not even sure I ever did this as I used CAN.

The reason I bring up 1). is that Japan is RHD as well. And I have been on Japanese forums and have seen, countless times, that the Japanese overwhelmingly opt for transplanting known-working used units (as brand new units cost more new than in the EU - ouch). And I have not seen a single report of used transplants not working in Japan. It basically sounds like the EU models have more security features than the home country (though the K12 did have a lot of Renault co-development with it so... also probably explains why new EPS units in Japan cost so much more than in the EU).

Yes, Nissan and Renault Partnership was mostly a contributed factor, The Security was only on the UK market (why I do not know - would imagine its for our more robust regulations and IVA Test).

Hope this answered all your questions.

Jason
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
lol no sorry. about 34hrs by plane away. Im in New Zealand.
Lol, not a quick visit then!! Usually the unit is very self contained and usually when the ps light is on, it's a failure with the unit. Little fiddly to replace but not hard. Depends how attached you are with the car? I would recommend a replacement but that's totally up to you.
I wouldn’t recommend a reman facility as your getting a failed unit which they attempted to fix (poorly). As you won’t have the security in your BCM a hot swap from a similar vehicle (same engine type) would work.
 
Thank you Jam
Yes, the MMJ Unit was also not Paired to the vehicle. Its not the EPS that decides this, all EPS has the functionality and is sitting there dormant if the BCM does not request it. Normally the PS light is very self sufficient to the EPS, either the EPS is sending the CAN message to illuminate the PS light or their is no Message so it defaults to illuminate. So i would say yes, a replacement eps would work. The ignition has no impact to EPS, and is fitted on the EPS regardless of what type.



As long as you fit it correctly with the Big Spline up and have not disassemble the gearbox from the column the system will reset ASP it self once the battery is reconnected


No, this is an option you can select, although you could potentially do this via CAN messages, you'll need to know other stuff, like Software version.... etc.. There was a KW way of doing this, this is how the dash manufactured selected the Tune for the Dash install. So for your info, when the Micra was manufactured, we sent the system to the dash manufactures and they installed the EPS into the dash selected the Tune In accordance with the JIT schedule issued by Nissan. So there was a KW protocol that did this, would need to look at the paperwork I have, not even sure I ever did this as I used CAN.



Yes, Nissan and Renault Partnership was mostly a contributed factor, The Security was only on the UK market (why I do not know - would imagine its for our more robust regulations and IVA Test).

Hope this answered all your questions.

Jason
Hi Jason
I have the same problem. I’m in Bristol. Can we discuss how you might help? Thanks Graham
 
Hi @huttojb - May I pick your brains.
We have a more ‘mechanical’ issue.
Our 2008 Nissan Note has play between the steering wheel and the first universal joint.
ie I locked the rods etc that go from the back of the steering column assembly down to the floor - when I move the steering wheel there is play before it moves the spline at the other end of the assembly - it’s like it has a worn universal joint - but within the column assembly itself.
The electronic elements work fine!
Can you assist in explaining what the set up is between the steering wheel spline and the end spline.
ie wondering if I can get a (good) used unit and swap the electronics as such - or open and replace the offending worn bush (or whatever the assembly is within the column).

Much appreciated - Andy

B6-C04427-657-F-4-F4-F-AF63-3-B913-AEA5-AE9.jpg
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Hi @huttojb - May I pick your brains.
We have a more ‘mechanical’ issue.
Our 2008 Nissan Note has play between the steering wheel and the first universal joint.
ie I locked the rods etc that go from the back of the steering column assembly down to the floor - when I move the steering wheel there is play before it moves the spline at the other end of the assembly - it’s like it has a worn universal joint - but within the column assembly itself.
The electronic elements work fine!
Can you assist in explaining what the set up is between the steering wheel spline and the end spline.
ie wondering if I can get a (good) used unit and swap the electronics as such - or open and replace the offending worn bush (or whatever the assembly is within the column).

Much appreciated - Andy

B6-C04427-657-F-4-F4-F-AF63-3-B913-AEA5-AE9.jpg
Hey. This is weird, if it’s the TRW unit then there is a protection on the so if the torque sensor turns with out the motor turning aswell it causes a fault. So in that I’m mind, it maybe between the column and the gearbox. Usually there is a plastic moulding that helps the connection between the gearbox input shaft and the column, maybe that? Could be many things but I doubt it’s within the gearbox.
 
Hey. This is weird, if it’s the TRW unit then there is a protection on the so if the torque sensor turns with out the motor turning aswell it causes a fault. So in that I’m mind, it maybe between the column and the gearbox. Usually there is a plastic moulding that helps the connection between the gearbox input shaft and the column, maybe that? Could be many things but I doubt it’s within the gearbox.
Thank you for the reply much appreciated.
That would make sense - definitely something with rotational ‘give’ (like the feeling of a worn rubber interface - or slack in some gears / a motor etc) before the steering wheel rotates the spline at the end of the column.
I’ll grab a used unit and have a look at possibly swapping my ‘bits’ onto that column / and or / try and open it open up to see if I can see what connects to what.
I’ll update once done incase anyone has the same.
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Have you checked the ishaft, that use to give that sort of feel. Look at my video,

there is a rubber coupling between the motor output and worm wheel, but if this broken I would expect failures as the sensor would turn without the corresponding movement of the motor. I think it’s column or ishaft based?
 
Have you checked the ishaft, that use to give that sort of feel. Look at my video,

there is a rubber coupling between the motor output and worm wheel, but if this broken I would expect failures as the sensor would turn without the corresponding movement of the motor. I think it’s column or ishaft based?
I was hoping it was going to be the part in your video… but it’s before it even gets to that. Similar sound of ‘clunk’ mind!
I’ve literally locked that ishaft so it can’t move with a bar - then laid in the footwell - looking up at it - waggled the steering - wheel small / gentle movements is ok - but anything vigorous / or sudden left / right gives slop / play / clunk is within the column. ie the steering wheel turns - but the spline going into that ishaft doesn’t mimic the steering movement. I’ll do a video when I get a mo. Thanks again for the pointers.
 
Hi, what a topic! I'm new here and read the whole thing to give me a clue where to look next. I'm a mechanic and quite comfortable with electronics /electrics.
I'm trying to get a(2005) k12 diesel running. Can anyone confirm that the steering column can prevent cranking of the engine? Changed the bcm and coded it in with a Launch, all good, no fault codes, active keys recognised, no eps light. The car had some suspension work done apparently for mot and a few weeks later developed this fault. Saw on the Launch a section covering steering, new column /used column. Does this need programming to the bcm separately?
Job is just to help a mate. Been through every last thing I can think of. Starter is fine BTW, cranks remotely but fuelling etc is down. Slowly tearing the car apart, inside and out. Thanks for the great thread.
 
Hi, what a topic! I'm new here and read the whole thing to give me a clue where to look next. I'm a mechanic and quite comfortable with electronics /electrics.
I'm trying to get a(2005) k12 diesel running. Can anyone confirm that the steering column can prevent cranking of the engine? Changed the bcm and coded it in with a Launch, all good, no fault codes, active keys recognised, no eps light. The car had some suspension work done apparently for mot and a few weeks later developed this fault. Saw on the Launch a section covering steering, new column /used column. Does this need programming to the bcm separately?
Job is just to help a mate. Been through every last thing I can think of. Starter is fine BTW, cranks remotely but fuelling etc is down. Slowly tearing the car apart, inside and out. Thanks for the great thread.
 
Yes. The eps can stop cracking. Where are you located?
HI, I am N. Wales. Mold to be precise. Thanks for the quick response. Only other thing I've noticed is that when attempting to crank, the service schedule display on the dash goes off. Don't know if that's normal. Going to find out what exactly was done mot work wise and if steering was involved. Cheers. Dave.
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Not sure then. Usually when the eps is stopping the cracking the NATs light comes on and stays on.

the BCM, cluster and EPS are all paired, so removing one of these may cause you issues.
 
Thanks mate, if I
Not sure then. Usually when the eps is stopping the cracking the NATs light comes on and stays on.

the BCM, cluster and EPS are all paired, so removing one of these may cause you issues.
Thanks mate, if I get to the bottom of it I will post it up. Final thing is that the temp light shows blue with ignition on but doesn't extinguish as I believe it should. Clocks out next for a shufty.
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
I don’t know. I know when you start messing with the BCM, cluster and EPS that are linked to NATs you do get some weird and wonderful results!

throw the car on a trailer and come to Birmingham and I’ll rule out EPS.
 
I don’t know. I know when you start messing with the BCM, cluster and EPS that are linked to NATs you do get some weird and wonderful results!

throw the car on a trailer and come to Birmingham and I’ll rule out EPS.
Thanks I will speak to him and suggest it.
If anyone can sort it out it will be you. Cheers.
 
Hey.
I used to work with the Nissan EPS and can help if anyone is near Birmingham?
Jason.

Hi Jason

I've just read most of this thread with interest. I am having problems with the PS on my 2003 K12 as follows:

Started off as slightly stiff steering, after a few days I lost it in the wet on a mini roundabout so no speed at play. After this the car constantly felt like it was on ice, even in the dry, so I put it into a garage to have shocks etc looked at. They came back and said it was the torque sensor from the PS motor and would be £600-800 to replace. So I said thanks but no thanks and very carefully drove my car home, thinking they'd just seen me coming. I then got my mum and dad's mechanic to look at it, he said the same thing, but it was possible to send it to a reman firm for about half the price. So I left him to get me a price, turned out his reman company does not do the K12 torque sensors any more, nor could he find another company to do it. (now reading your posts I understand why)
The last thing I have done is to buy an OBD tool off Amazon and just see if clearing any codes helped as I had seen this advice online, thought it was worth a punt at £25 but no codes showed. There has never been any warnings on the dash either. The problem has become progressively worse to a point where I daren't turn the wheel for fear of it losing control and oversteering me into the ditch. The car is now laid up while I try and find a solution, you seem to be the expert I've been looking for

I would gratefully appreciate any assistance you can offer me, I too am new here so would not be able to PM you for a week I think. I live in North Shropshire, so not a million miles from Birmingham

Many thanks

Morgan
 
Happy to have a look, but do you feel safe driving it to Birmingham?
Hi Jason

Thanks for replying so fast. Not particularly keen on driving it, no but is there anything I can do myself from here, I may be in Birmingham over the weekend looking at a new car, but I wouldn't bring the Micra!

Thanks

Morgan
 
Calling huttojb

Just registered here and can’t seem to find a personal messaging system.

Wondered if you would be able to take a look at my wife’s 2005 C+C 1600 which currently has no power steering. This has happened before, been looked at and reprogrammed by someone else, but the fault has now returned.

We are only in Kidderminster, how do I find you?
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Calling huttojb

Just registered here and can’t seem to find a personal messaging system.

Wondered if you would be able to take a look at my wife’s 2005 C+C 1600 which currently has no power steering. This has happened before, been looked at and reprogrammed by someone else, but the fault has now returned.

We are only in Kidderminster, how do I find you?
Hey. Cause I could look. Your not too far.

I live by Cofton Park. Not sure who sorted it but would image that only cleared the fault codes. Clearing fault codes does not fix the issue.

Jason.
 
what ACTUALLY goes wrong on K12 columns? Very common fault it seems that these just pack in, even at low mileage, YOu can't fit a used one apparently even if you could find a working one, There are a couple of places who repair them, but at £250-£350. I'm fairly good at fixing things, tempted to strip it down, anyone done this? What actually causes these things to throw up codes etc, is it the torque sensors, assuming it is basically always the same fault with them, what to they actually 'fix' when you send them away does anyone know? Bought the car cheap today but I can see why they are cheap when they have broken EPS. These cars aren't worth much money these days especially early ones, so throwing £400 at one when it probably only worth £600 does not seem economical.

Can a 2nd hand column be fitted if you swap the control box from your old one onto it? Is it or is it likely the fault is actually within the control box rather than the electromechanical innards of the column. Is it ever something as simple as motor brushes?
Sorry for maybe crashing this post, but can't find out how to post a question. Can anyone tell me if I can fit an earlier steering rack to my k12 . I ordered second hand one off eBay, discription exactly same as old one but they have sent what I imagine is an earlier one. Seems to be same ish , mounting holes same, inner trackrod thread looks like M12 where as mine is M10. I have track rod's to fit either. Just wondering if it would fit before I have to send it back. Tia. Michael
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
It would fit but there’s a security feature that stops you starting, also depends on tune that’s in the system as they are tuned to engine type.
 
Good evening. Apologies for crashing the Micra Forum with non Micra Questions but I’m loosing my mind.

I have a 2009 Fiat Bravo which uses the TRW 3 electronic power steering system.

The original unit in the car failed. With various codes showing up on diagnostics which wouldn’t clear (I think it was a bad torque sensor)

I replaced the steering column with a used unit with the same fiat and TRW part numbers. But from a car with a different engine.

the new unit works perfectly. Steering feels great. It self centers as expected etc. However a check steering message appears on the dash with a C1103 code.

the code can be cleared with diagnostics and it stays off until the next time the ignition is turned on.
Weak batteries and bad earths are known to cause issues so I have been through and checked all these.

the car has no ESP so there’s no steering angle parameter in the ABS system.

the EPS ECU has updated “learned” the cars engine type etc. And the straight ahead calibration seems to be fine, with steering angle reading near 0 whilst driving in a straight line.

the parameters reported on diagnostics are
Steering angle calibration performed
Initialisation position valid
Steering angle signal valid
Turn ratio invalid (could this be the issue)

the C1103 code I think means invalid configuration

and the fact that the code comes up on ignition on seems to agree with that in that it seems to be a problem on start up check.

I thought it may be an issue with the used unit. So swapped it to a 3rd one. Which has the exact same symptoms.

I have an MoT due so need the light to not keep coming on

any insights or advice would be much appreciated.

sorry for the long post. And many thanks
 
Good evening. Apologies for crashing the Micra Forum with non Micra Questions but I’m loosing my mind.

I have a 2009 Fiat Bravo which uses the TRW 3 electronic power steering system.

The original unit in the car failed. With various codes showing up on diagnostics which wouldn’t clear (I think it was a bad torque sensor)

I replaced the steering column with a used unit with the same fiat and TRW part numbers. But from a car with a different engine.

the new unit works perfectly. Steering feels great. It self centers as expected etc. However a check steering message appears on the dash with a C1103 code.

the code can be cleared with diagnostics and it stays off until the next time the ignition is turned on.
Weak batteries and bad earths are known to cause issues so I have been through and checked all these.

the car has no ESP so there’s no steering angle parameter in the ABS system.

the EPS ECU has updated “learned” the cars engine type etc. And the straight ahead calibration seems to be fine, with steering angle reading near 0 whilst driving in a straight line.

the parameters reported on diagnostics are
Steering angle calibration performed
Initialisation position valid
Steering angle signal valid
Turn ratio invalid (could this be the issue)

the C1103 code I think means invalid configuration

and the fact that the code comes up on ignition on seems to agree with that in that it seems to be a problem on start up check.

I thought it may be an issue with the used unit. So swapped it to a 3rd one. Which has the exact same symptoms.

I have an MoT due so need the light to not keep coming on

any insights or advice would be much appreciated.

sorry for the long post. And many thanks
Just my tuppence worth, few years back at a merc place we used to get a steering fault light on and the fix was to slowly drive lock to lock several times. Can't remember the angle fault name at this moment. Could have been parse angle. Someone will know. Worth a shot.
 

huttojb

Club Member
EPS System Guru
Just my tuppence worth, few years back at a merc place we used to get a steering fault light on and the fix was to slowly drive lock to lock several times. Can't remember the angle fault name at this moment. Could have been parse angle. Someone will know. Worth a shot.
Unfortunately it’s alittle more complex then that.
 
Just a catch up as I suspected an eps fault on the K12 1.5 DCI I've been looking at for a mate after replacing the bcm under the headlight due to no crank or fuelling. Ordered another bcm as I am now sure that the first replacement is faulty. Anyway it arrived today so if I get chance I will fit it tomorrow and program it in. Hopefully it will be okay and I have escaped the eps problem (for now at least!) Will post the results.
 
Sheets,

Like I said above, I wouldn’t recommended the solution suggested above. A used unit cost £40+ from a scrap yard but it will not be paired with your car and therefore you’ll have NATS issues. It is quite simple to remove and replace the EPS but you need to get it paired.

Not sure what the refurbish ones are like and don’t really trust them.

Would you be interested in sending me your one (at your cost), I’ll check it and either send the original one back with it cleared or send one from the scrap yard which can pair to your car if the original one Has a hard fault.

Message me and we can discuss.

Jason.
hi jason are you still out there pal need help
 
hi i need help ps went on my wifes micra cc changed the steering column with a scrapper car wouldn't start. so i borrowed my mates snap on code reader cleared about 5 codes car now starts after about half a mile red key light comes on then i disconnected the battery car wouldn't start again so i deleted the codes again car starts again. I have contacted a few local key and locksmiths but had no joy one said to me i have to take the column back off take the motor and take ecu to him he will do something in the ecu then i have to fit it back on the car leave the ignition on for 45 mins ? the column cost me 75 he wants he wants 80 it will take him 10 mins
 
I am still out here!
Hi Just wondering if you may be able to help me out, I'm based in Bristol and have had the same intermittent PS problem ( on my 2003 Nissan Micra) everyone seems to have, however a few weeks ago there seemed to be an immobiliser fault and the ignition stopped working. It then started working again and after a local auto electrical garage cleared the codes, it worked for about a day and then same thing happened. It's now able to drive but with the PS fault. Not sure what to do as they said it would cost over £1000 to replace and not sure it's worth doing that over getting another car. Any advice would be much appreciated!
 
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