Engine idle/cut out problem

F

Ferret

Guest
Hey all, new to the site, my 1st post isn't a good one.

My '87 K10 MA10 Micra doesn't idle when its warm, nor will it start when it's warm, i've had to use the handbrake at junctions etc to keep on the gas and yesterday i had to stop sudden and it cut out in the worse possible place ever, i got it started again but then after that it kept stuttering, pausing and going again, that cleared itself up, so if anyone can help with this problem it'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Ferret
 
How high is the milage? Its possible your Dizzy is playing up. Mine did exactly what yours is doing by the sounds of things. It eventually got the point where you'd drive up to a junction and it would cut out, and would take ages to start. I had to replace the Dizzy, Problem solved after that :)
 
I'd start with that first. Get another preferably low milage one from a scrap yard and swap them over. Dont forget to check the timing afterwards! it may be slightly out.

You could probably pick one up between £10 & £20. A new one costs three figures, and i cant confirm thats what your problem is, but im 99% sure.
 
er hang on arnold he needs to check the basics first

ferret, check all your vacumm hoses for leaks/cracking, if not replace them anyway, as a leak on a hose will cause the problem your getting,

then if its still doing it check things like timing and mixture and check all the connections on coil and ht leads, then you can randomly swap parts if its still not fixed
 
Cutting out

Fordy said:
er hang on arnold he needs to check the basics first

ferret, check all your vacumm hoses for leaks/cracking, if not replace them anyway, as a leak on a hose will cause the problem your getting,

then if its still doing it check things like timing and mixture and check all the connections on coil and ht leads, then you can randomly swap parts if its still not fixed
Click to expand...

Agree with what the previous two have said check the vacuum hoses, especially the one which sites on the drivers side of the carb also check the carb seal as this will cause what you're describing. Also get a can of carb cleaner and give the carb a good blasting this will improve things amazingly. If these checks don't work then also get the dizzy checked for security. Check everything for security including manifold. Oh one last thing check to see if your choke is working correctly as I've had this thing happen on other makes with carbs

Charlotte

Charlotte
 
My bro is mechanic for Renault, he got some new bits for it and gave it a quick service, he's looked at it today and messed with the air/fuel mix, that hasn't worked, im sure he would checked other stuff aswell. He's now got a dizzy cap on order from his m8 "Sheepskin Coats" lol.

Ferret
 
idle

haha it's always good to put faith in mechanics for dealerships !!

Get the car put on a meter or for now simply lower the air screw untill you can get the meter it should allow the car to run ok.

Charlotte
 
Iv'e just been out to give it a run down the lane and back where i live, it started and idled as normal, driving along it was fine, cut out at the junction where i turn around as expected, got it started again, went home, just as i stopped to park it cut out, wouldnt start after that. Leaving 5-10mins then trying again seems to work, anyway when i went back out to try again, i made a quick vid, so the engine isn't roasting hot, but then it isn't cold either.

http://media.putfile.com/Micra-13

Ferret
 
Fordy said:
er hang on arnold he needs to check the basics first

ferret, check all your vacumm hoses for leaks/cracking, if not replace them anyway, as a leak on a hose will cause the problem your getting,

then if its still doing it check things like timing and mixture and check all the connections on coil and ht leads, then you can randomly swap parts if its still not fixed
Click to expand...

If the connections on the leads are crap, the problem would be constant. If the hoses were split, likewise. Same if the mixture isnt very good, the above wouldnt just suddenly cause the car to cut out, it just wouldnt run right from the beginning

Whats the point of checking hoses and replacing them if they could be fine? Pointless

Im almost certain, due to first hand experience that this is a Dizzy or Dizzy cap issue. Clean the points inside the cap, make sure the seal between the cap and dizzy arent loose or broken. I had running problems when the connectors inside the cap were dirty, but have had the EXACT same problem as you when my dizzy started playing up.
 
...from the vid it sounds fine enough while its revving 7 blipping throttle....

If its junctions etc and warmth that causes cut out then I wouol be tempted to point the finger at carb...

low float level maybe? or maybe fuel suppy to the carb

When it cuts will it restart & run OK after that
 
I think the fact that im having to leave it 5-10mins is because im flooding the engine trying to get it started, if the engine is warm and has been run a good period of time then it wont start, again leaving for it 5-10mins usually works, if the engine is cold, then it'll start 1st time most of the time.Tomorrow depending what time i finish, i'll make another vid and go through the whole procedure because there might be something im missing which you may pick up on.

Cheers for the help so far (Y)

Ferret
 
I must admit when mine is hot if i stop the engine its reluctant to restsrt but I think thats normal for the K10...a tougch of WOT and a slightly susteained crank does the trick for me
 
A vid as promised from the next day, cold start of course. Think thats all i need to say, vid explains all.

http://media.putfile.com/Micra-24

Wrong dizzy came, new one was sent, my bro picked the new one up earlier, will fit it tomoz sometime.

Ferret
 
Have you checked the points on the dizzy? Listening to the video I'd say something isn't right with the carb and the fuel supply. From memory the carb has a bi metalic choke (small sort of round black casing connecting to the cold start. On the drivers side of the carb under the air filter housing there are two black rubber pipes joined to two plastic pipes check these for security and deterioration. It may be worth checking the plugs for tightness, it's not unusual for alloy heads, when they get a little old and have had a few hundred plugs, for the threads to get a little tired; on cold the threads may seem ok nice and tight, as the engine warms these start to expand allowing the plug to move a few thousandth causing the engine to not start when hot. Although I'd agree with the majority and say it's carb related have you taken the carb of the manifold and check the gasket for security not sure if it's a large vulcanised rubber one or a single paper one.

Charlotte
 
i'll let my bro read that, it'll make more sense to him than what it does to me.

Ferret
 
right what have you changed or touched i want a list, so we can gather whats been done,

the fact its flooding means the carb allowing fuel in, so you can rule that out,

ignition, check the timing and check the points in the dissy for wear,

also what have you set the air fuel mixture to, set it at 1.9 on the co and try that but after you have adjusted the timing
 
Dizzy has been fitted, doesn't cut out any more at junctions but it cut out when the car was stationary but started straight up again. It doesn't like to start from cold now, think the auto choke wants looking at. It still stutters a bit here and there, even though it's working again, im still a bit hesitant of taking into the city incase it breaks down again.

Ferret
 
Check the timing. That would have been effected by changing the Dizzy. It sounds like its not running right now, causing it to cut out on idle. Im glad your other problems are sorted though, i told you it was that!!
 
if it wont start when warmed up it means the IC control chip in the dissy has gone i should know this happened to me at santa pod :( 6 hours trip home thanks to AA.

Arnolds right, cos at last he has listened to what ive told him lol

if its still cutting out now mate id check your vaccum hoses there is one running from the vacumm on the distributor make sure thats secure, and also check the vaccum pipe going to the bottom of the air pan, if this is disconnected/damaged the car will cut out when its on idle ;)
 
If ive had it at WOT it stutters like no tomorrow, think the float in the carb wants looking at, also its been a ###### to start but now it only takes it 5 times of cranking to start, though at work, i turned the engine off, 5 mins later i had to move it, it wouldnt start, though it was still trying to start when the key was in the off position, had to pull it out to stop it starting. The handbrake light keeps coming on, its creaking loads more aswell, think the shocks want seeing to, it's just one thing after another now, im probably better getting rid of it.

Ferret
 
Took me a whole 1 min today to reach 60mph then it wouldnt start when it got fuelled up, also woulda been rear ended if there was a car coming the other way, white van man not payin attention, escaped just in time.

Ferret
 
can you get torch and a cloth...wrap the cloth round your index finger and clean the float level indicator glass on the front of the carb....shine a torch and gently rock the suspension to help you see the moving fuel level.....if the float level is OK the fuel will be exactly half way up the glass where the metal pointers are....

its not so easy to see past the rocker cover but you can get it if you catch the right angle

The one on this picture is completely empty
 

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answer these 2 questions

1. has the timing been checked and adjusted after you replaced the dissy?

2. have you checked the air/fuel mixture on a co machine?, if yes then what was the co reading?
 
It's being scrapped, took my rather drunken mate home the other night, it broke down in the middle of no-where, my folks weren't happy calling them out, anyway when i got it home it fired up no probs, so if any of ya want it to fix or want any parts, give us a shout.

Ferret
 
Did you look at the sight glass? what was the results? fuel OK / low / or none?


This is a simple check and theres more simple things to check before resorting to scrapping!!!

Please have a look?

If you are decided though..you could offer it up for grabs in here......instead of throwing it to waste///
 
Agree they are very simple cars. The fact that this problem reoccours makes it even easier to find.
 
It's going if my uncle can't fix it or if it's gonna cost more to fix than what the car is worth. I've been searching for potential new cars most of the weekend as my uncle takes forever with any sort of task, i can't be without a car, i'm hopefully borrowing my bro's car today but i can't do that all the time.

Ferret
 
He's had a look, he suspects someone has been messing around with the carbs, everthing else is fine with it.

Ferret
 
So....

Was the fuel level in the viewing window above, below or right on the line???


I'm awefully desperate to know either way and I think It would be usefull for the forum too
 
The points looked dodgy so they have been replaced, not sure if thats fixed it or not.

Ferret
 
has your uncle looked at the float chamber window yet?
What was the results?

(looking at a window is easier and quicker than most of the other maintenance jobs)


...I will keep pestering....lol
 
Im assuming he must have done and that it was ok, he hasnt said anything about it.

Ferret
 
The car is back, it starts warm now, doesnt cut out, sounds a bit different, not really sure what he did but it's done the trick.

Ferret
 
Wow... that was an epic journey. Easiest way to sort these problems is take it to someone who has worked with carburetted, points ignition cars. There really is so little that can go wrong, and someone who knows what they are doing can sort it out in 15 minutes.
 
Were talking about my uncle here, takes him months to get anything done.
 
Sorry i can't give ya an answer on that :(

I'll make a video for ya, since i have nothing else to do, lol.
 
Great a video.....grab a torch and a rag too


Clean the carb window with the rag wrapped aroind your index finger, then zoom the camera lens close to the carb window while a mate shines the torch if the light isnt so good....

jobs a good un?
 
Cars been running perfect cept earlier it went back to its old ways stuttering at half revs, so going through villages like a kangaroo, pulling outta junctions was also fun. I dropped my mate off, the 3 miles back to mine it didnt do it, so it might be ok now, who knows.

Ferret
 

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