duno tuning..!!

[CMF_jeff8022]

want to use duno-tuning for my k11... is it worth to do that..! and how much does it cost..! or what i should get my car done before i get it to tuning.. i have my car done: 2" exhaust, aftermarket muffler and extractors from ex-owner..

and think some people know my car.. Jay's ex-micra

thx

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

you have an aftermarket computer? Or a piggy back computer? It wont be worth it with just an exhaust. Sure if you've got a throttle body or big injectors but not with just an exhaust.

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

oh its also dyno tuning. And its about 500ish

 

[CMF_1300cc]

i know someone at thornbury area who can dyno tune your car for around $150, thats assuming you dont have any aftermarket ecu.....

 

[CMF_1300cc]

i know someone at thornbury area who can dyno tune your car for around $150, thats assuming you dont have any aftermarket ecu.....

 

[CMF_Jon (2)]

I'd jump onto the yellow pages and just ring around to see how much it costs.

 

[CMF_jeff8022]

1300cc WROTE:

"i know someone at thornbury area who can dyno tune your car for around $150, thats assuming you dont have any aftermarket ecu.....

i don't think i have aftermarket ecu... i just got the car two weeks ago.. do i need to have aftermarket ecu before the tuning..!!

i want to change few things before the tuning...

can i have the guy contact detail: thx

 

[CMF_kovert.k11]

DECIM8 WROTE:

"you have an aftermarket computer? Or a piggy back computer? It wont be worth it with just an exhaust. Sure if you've got a throttle body or big injectors but not with just an exhaust.

i agree with DECIM8; unless you have upgraded the t/b or injectors, dyno tuning will be an exercise in futility... if u did have the previously mentioned upgrades, then i'd suggest considering some sort of aftermarket ecu management so that u have greater control over air/fuel ratios, etc...

 

[CMF_jeff8022]

thx a lot

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

I may add. The only thing you will get from Dyno tuning is fuel economy with the mods you have now. I doubt you'll get any performance upgrades. You would get more power from running new power wire to the alternator and running a new ground to alternator and chassis than a dyno tune .. I.E 0.000001 power increase.

 

[CMF_1300cc]

jeff8022 WROTE:

"1300cc WROTE:

"i know someone at thornbury area who can dyno tune your car for around $150, thats assuming you dont have any aftermarket ecu....."</div>

i don't think i have aftermarket ecu... i just got the car two weeks ago.. do i need to have aftermarket ecu before the tuning..!!

i want to change few things before the tuning...

can i have the guy contact detail: thx

what im trying to say is if you have an aftermarket ecu it could be more but if its just a piggy back ecu then that would be around that price,,,just call him at 94843117 his name is dominic

 

[CMF_jeff8022]

where i can find a aftermarket ecu.. and how much would be...?
how can i check in my car where is the ecu.. because i have no ideal is the ex-owner upsate it or not.. thx

 

[CMF_kovert.k11]

depends entirely on your intended mods and your budget - there is a range of ecu options from cheap to as much as u spent on ur car... i'd suggest that if there was an aftermarket ecu installed, it would have been mentioned as a selling point when u bought jay's SS... try googling for ecu's>> ems, adaptronic, microtech, haltech, motec, autronic and check the individual specifications and see what suits ur requirements

 

[CMF_SSUK]

The information in this post so far is not strictly correct. Before going further into detail, the below contained information is only valid if you are bothered about obtaining good air/fuel ratios and maximising both power and economy.....the latter which isn't effected that heavily by re-mapping.

The standard maps contained within the Micra ecu are ok for a standard car. As soon as you fit an aftermarket set of extractors, mid section and backbox and a cold air system, other than the standard airbox the ecu will not do a very good job of maintaining good fuelling and here in the UK is causes lots of emission problems too. This has been shown many many times before on dynos here in the UK.

A typical power v's AFR plot on a CG13DE with the above stated bolt-on modifications would show a reasonable AFR up to around 2800-3000rpm then the map will lean out, (sometimes AFR's as lean as 15.5:1 can be seen), until 5500rpm when the ECU allows more fuelling......the AFR however only reaches a sensible AFR for power approaching redline. There are a lot of quirks with the CG13DE ECU's with regard to fuelling but I wont go into those, as it's pretty complex.

On a realistic dyno, (dyno dynamics), we typically see around 85bhp from a CG13DE with these bolt on modifications. After a re-map you would expect something around 92bhp on standard cams with a lot of midrange torque improvements. I did have a dyno dynamics printout but I cannot yet find it, so I will update the post with before and after plots when/if I find it.....so watch this post.

Bare in mind that the dyno we use is one of the most conservative dyno's in the UK, so these figures may seem rather low compared to what you are used to but we do see pretty close to standard power when testing a standard car with no changes. Other dynos have read such a car as high as 106bhp and correspondingly standard cars have shown as high as 85bhp out of the box, which isn't comparable.

Bottom line, the standard ecu does not cope well with even mild modifications and with fuelling and ignition changes you can expect to see gains of around 7bhp top end and around 10bhp or so over the midrange. The question you have to ask yourself is, for the expense, (piggyback ecu or nistune daughterboard + dyno time), it is worth it for that power increase?

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

yeah... So basically same answers as above lol.. Dont tune it.

10hp available at 6,000 rpm is going to do jack all for power. these are not powerful cars and do not go fast. The member is new and looking for serious advice how to spend his money. Like I said you would make 10hp doing a wiring upgrade lol

 

[CMF_SSUK]

As new member it's important to receive the correct information first time around, then you know where you stand and make decisions based on facts. There's nothing worse than dissapointment based on heresay. We've been tuning CG10/CG13/CGA3 engines over here for rallying for a long time in all shapes and forms and know their strengths and weaknesses extremely well.

You'd be surprised how little difference a larger throttlebody makes on the stock inlet manifold and larger injectors are only really required when you opt for fast road camshafts. We tried it and reverted back to the standard throttlebody for driveability reasons.

While 17bhp increase over stock at the top end doesn't sound like much that's over 20% increase. The midrange gains are where the benefits really are. When you compare the torque graphs the differences are very good, which translates well on the road.

I'll say it again, if you feel the expense is justified go ahead. If not then run around in it how it is, but I'd like you to have some facts to base your decision on.

FYI, a set of 256deg 8.35mm lift cams, (similar to Tomei Poncam), work well on the CG13DE with the standard inlet manifold while giving good driveability and tickover. You'd see around 105bhp all tuned up with a vastly improved midrange. This is about your limit on power unless you opt for individual throttlebodies or compression increases etc and then it gets expensive!!

If however you have a CG10DE let us know and we'll happily make some recommendations

DECIM8 - You maybe surprised to know it's possible to yield 0-100km/h in 7.5secs on a standard compression CG13DE engine with a top speed of ~207km/h, (quicker with stock brakes and tyres). Not amazingly fast compared to a lot of cars but compared to the standard times of 12secs and 171km/h that's quite an improvement.

Saying the above though, I will agree on the fact that the K11 Micra is not a performance car and if it's performance you ultimately want, it maybe better to save the ~$500 it will cost to get a piggyback ecu or Nistune board plus mapping and maybe buy a quicker base car?

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

True, Please start a new thread for me and detail how to turn it into a 7.5 second car. I am very interested in how you would do that. Still not a fast car. In saying that a camry does the same.

Thanks for your replies anyway. Im sure he appreciates it. Maybe send me a PM about how to punch out a 7.5second car. Im assuming you are doing this without a ecu? Hope so cause buying one is not on my list lol

 

[CMF_SSUK]

Sure......if you're really interested......

I'm offshore in the UK north sea sector at the moment, so will startup a thread when I return with pics and info. The power graph of our current setup is attached <a href="http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=15548&d=1273688259">here</a>

A few people in the UK have similarly spec'd cars and one guy on here, 'Nissanmania', had an even more advanced setup, with high compression pistons, forged conrods and headwork......something he used in sprints and hillclimbs.

Since you mention camrys, it would undoubtedly be an awful lot cheaper to buy one of those than to do this to a K11, (my build isn't cheap!), probably a lot more comfortable and quiet also haha!

Sadly though, the modification we did required a standalone ecu in the form of an Omex 600 because the Nissan JECCS ecu isn't able to map TPS load for individual throttlebodies.

BTW, I just noticed your thread on your build.......that's a seriously cool retro setup you're putting together, loving it!

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

HAHA. As soon as I read you had individual throttle bodies I knew it was expensive.

Why not turbo? Its so much cheaper? Nice work anyway. Cheers for the kind words. Would be nice to see your progess anyway

 

[CMF_SSUK]

That's quite a difficult question to answer, as there are so many options. Many will say straight away that turbocharging a Micra is easy and cheap and can be done on a much smaller budget for the same power output but history has proven this not to be the case. Mainly because people cut too many corners and try to do it 'too cheaply' and as a result there have been many many blown engines because people have gotten carried away with boost, (it's addictive), and blown the headgasket or melted a piston etc or not considered all the variables.

Bottom line, either way is expensive but a turbocharged setup has the bigger potential of the 2 to get expensive and very quickly! A reliable setup requires a good ecu & fuelling setup and if done on standard compression a realistic boost limit which isn't changed. Our counterparts in Japan rarely run over 5psi on standard pistons and compression mainly due to ring or gasket failures. Some people use a thicker 2mm gasket and run more but this isn't the best way to go about it, it will work but the engine has less detonation resistance and ignition will need to be dialled back accordingly. So if you're sensible with boost and tuning this is the cheapest way to some pretty good power. CG series engines respond VERY well to forced induction!

A few have made some nice setups but the ones that have stood the test of time, (constant high power outputs, track days etc), have all been big budget projects with lots of expensive components in the form of forged pistons, forged conrods, o-ringed blocks, headwork, standalone management systems, custom manifolds etc etc such as the legend that is Cisco ;O) I would say there have been more failures than successes but hopefully plenty learned along the way too.......as that's what forum groups/clubs are about, sharing information and helping eachother towards our goals. I'm no expert by any means but a few of us do have plenty of knowledge and experience to share and fewer still have deep enough pockets to see things through till the end

 

[CMF_jeff8022]

kovert.k11 WROTE:

"depends entirely on your intended mods and your budget - there is a range of ecu options from cheap to as much as u spent on ur car... i'd suggest that if there was an aftermarket ecu installed, it would have been mentioned as a selling point when u bought jay's SS... try googling for ecu's&gt;&gt;ems, adaptronic, microtech, haltech, motec, autronic and check the individual specifications and see what suits ur requirements

hi~

i just want my car (ecu) have greater control over air/fuel ratios.. which ecu i should go for... because i have not ideal what they are.. ems, adaptronic, microtech, haltech, motec, autronic..

I want some thing not to expensive and effective...

 

[CMF_DECIM8]

Well they are all effective, For your current setup I would suggest just an air/fuel controller. Perhaps a SAF-C or Jaycar DFA. You may also look at Greddy Piggy Back ecu which allows for more tuning if you decide to go with bigger things in the future.

Honestly my friend. If you want to spend that much on a car I suggest you find a Honda Civic/integra etc which is already modded and buy one of those. More power, more grace and it has VTEC.

As you can see from this quote here..

SSUK WROTE:

<BR><BR>Since you mention camrys, it would undoubtedly be an awful lot cheaper to buy one of those than to do this to a K11, (my build isn't cheap!), probably a lot more comfortable and quiet also haha!<BR><BR>