Battery draining, HELP!

[Ceirwan]

Seem to have a battery draining problem with my 1996 K11 Micra Shape.
Came to start my car the otherday, and the engine cranked more weakly than usual but still started, i thought nothing of it, however the next morning the engine turned over very weakly indeed and the battery didn't have enough power to turn it over fully, after a few goes i just managed to start it.
Problem keeps re-occuring, when i park the car it will start again fine, when its been left the battery drains.

I disconnected a battery lead and then tapped it on the terminal, this created a blue spark, so obviously some power must be being drawn, i doubt the NATS system would be enough to do this?

I have no ICE installed so its not an amp problem, the alternator seems to work fine because once the engines running it puts charge into the battery, runs the lights bright, you can see the lights dim when you turn off the engine.

Are there any areas in the K11 prone to this? The only thing i have done is removed the old casette head unit to get the serial number to unlock it, i then put that back in exactly as i found it.

Anyone got any ideas? Help would be much appreciated, thanks!

P.s. I have searched the forum, but i didn't find a satisfactory answer.

 

[Broony]

Basically sounds like you need a new battery, after time batteries loose their ability to re-charge/ maintain their charge hence once the car is left for a long period of time it wont start.

 

[Ceirwan]

Yeah, but this batterys only 2 months old, all the fluid levels are topped up and stuff.
Is it normal to see a blue spark if you tap one of the battery leads onto the terminal? I would have thought it indicated some sort of current draw, unfortunately i can't find my ammeter to check at the moment.

 

[frank]

ceirwan

i think you should only see a very faint spark,even at nightime
i would systematicaly disconnect the usual suspects ice/alternator etc till the spark goes (i,ve known an alternator to drain a battery even tho it was charging ok)

frank

 

[Ed]

Is a light on in the boot? You need to measure the standby current of the car. It will be something simple. However you should also measure the charge voltage, it could be the alternator that is slowly failing, and thus it never really charges.

Ed

 

[Ceirwan]

There is no light in the boot, or ICE so i doubt its that!
Even though the batterys new i'm beginning to suspect its dodgy, example, put it on charge today disconnected from car, the charger said it was putting in about 3A of current for a few minutes, it then dropped off to nothing as in saying it was fully charged, so i connected it to the car and it started first time... great i thought its working. Stopped car, went inside to get house keys and stuff, about 10min later, tried to start it... dead again, very weak turn over, i managed to get it started by trying again and again until the engine finally fired, when i got back home, stopped the car, turned off the engine, tried to start it again... worked fine... i bet if i try again in an hour or so it will be dead again.

Is it normal to hear the sound of bubbling from within your battery after you stop the car and turn off the engine? or is this just a side effect of charging.

 

[Ed]

CHECK THE CAR IS CHARGING. Get a multimeter and stick it across the battery terminals after the car is running. It should be at least 13.8 volts. To be honest until you do this your wasting your time.

 

[frank]

ceirwan

a battery will produce hydrogen when changed (i had 1 blow up when i pulled the clip off without turning the boost charger off first)
i would try a 3 amp house fuse between the terminal and battery post, if it blows that you gotta serious drain
i think that some of the fuses are live even when the ign is off, try pulling them 1 by 1

frank

 

[Ceirwan]

Thanks will do, Ed, i'm not ignoring you, as i said in my first post my multimeter has gone AWOL, but i will try to borrow one.

Should i check the voltage while the car is running as well as after? Because if its not that voltage couldn't it indicate a duff battery as well?

If i manage to get my multimeter i'll connect it in series when the battery is connected but car not on, does anyone know the normal drain?

 

[frank]

ceirwan

mine,s showing 3.2 amps with sidelights on .001 amps with them off
shure hope that radio code in the handbook is correct!!!
btw i got no nats

frank

 

[Ceirwan]

Hmm, well i have nats so i guess i'll look for current drains above 100milliamps.
Thanks very much, if the code isn't correct, read the serial number off the back and i can tell you a website that gives you the code, worked because i didn't get the code in my manual 0o.

I know about batts producing hydrogeon when charged, its just i don't remember ever hearing active bubbling! (Not that i've ever listened before now)

 

[Ed]

No way will you have a 100mah draw. Even this will kill a battery over night that would other wise fine start a car, and show no signs of a problem.

Active bubbling from a charging battery when on a charger is normal.

Should i check the voltage while the car is running as well as after? Because if its not that voltage couldn't it indicate a duff battery as well?

Yes I was not clear that is what I meant.

 

[Ceirwan]

Just checked with multimeter, there is no drain from the battery... BUT with the engine running the battery voltage is around 17.4v... to me this sounds excessively high... does this mean my alternator will need replacing?

 

[sonic]

its very high, i wouldnt expect to see more than 14.5 volts.

its possible a faulty alternator has pushed too much into the battery and cooked it.

 

[Ceirwan]

That was my thought, does anyone have any other theories? Wouldn't it have cooked my lights and stuff as well though?

 

[sonic]

no, the fuses would stop that happening.

 

[Ed]

Try that multimeter on another car, I think its lying. I think you would have more than a minor problem if it were really 17v i.e. a VERY hot battery and frequent bulbs blowing, and ultimately everything failing.

 

[Ceirwan]

Well a rear brake bulb went the other day...
Ok will try it out on my friends car tomorrow... however when it tested the battery with the engine off, it gave a voltage of 11.3v, which if the battery is low on charge would be about right...?

I'll report back when ive tested!

By the way i'm not driving the car at the moment really so maybe the major symptons haven't shown themselves yet? Maybe i should hold off putting in that new head unit for the moment...

 

[Ed]

At the end of all this, if that meter is right, then it will still be the alternator like I thought it may have been in the beginning.. (in this case the regulator, unusual f)

I am half surprised the battery didnt explode, it would have seriously been toasted, and now if your meter is correct been damaged beyond repair (probably saved your car electronics too). I wouldn't even try running it again if it turns out your meter is correct. You risk killing everything in your car.

 

[Ceirwan]

Right well ive sourced a new (as in second hand) alternator which apparantly works fine, from the same model car as mine, for around £25 delivered, is that reasonable?

I take it they're pretty easy to fit? Disconnect battery, disconnect wires to alternator (if its that easy 0o), take of alternator belt, unscrew, replace with new one and do that in reverse order?

Plus i'd new a new battery *sighs*. I've only had it 2 weeks :S.

 

[sonic]

its just teething troubles, you'll probably never have anything else go wrong with it.

 

[Ceirwan]

Just tested my multimeter on the charger for my laptop, that puts out 15v, the meter read 15.1v, the .1 will just be cause the charger won't stay perfectly stable at 15v.
So i guess the metres accurate and the alternators frying batteries! 0o
*Sigh* Time to purchase that alternator...

Thanks for all the help, will let people know as it progresses.