Things falling out....of gearbox

CMF_Alex_B

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and then...
 

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CMF_Alex_B

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and then i sat down before i fell over.

I have been whinging about increased vibration throughout the car recently, its getting quite bad now. So im guessing my recent clutch install went bung (was a PBR Clutch). Here is a variety of options:

1. Flywheel was machined slopy
2. Clutch housing is out of balance
3. bolts inside fly / clutch housing have loosened fallen out

Any thoughts, (these bolts were properly torqed up btw)

so i have no bolts at all on the front and top front of the gearbox, which is about half; unsecured. gearbox looks to be flush though,

Alex
 

CMF_Alex_B

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hmmm, also yesterday i realised my window winder assembly had rattled loose, yes rattle loose, makes window hard to wind and it vibrates when at high revs. So i put loctite on teh two bolts that came loose. Also recently got the same rattle under the dash cluster,

Alex
 

cisco

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Mate!!!

That is just terrible. Seriously.

I'm sure you will find out something interesting when you pull it all apart though. And you get quicker every time. So you should be able to drop the box and re-install much quicker than last time.

Yeah know what you mean though.. Bad timing :(
 

CMF_White Knight

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Yep Alex the geabox specialist.Excuse my ignorance why were the bolts missing?? Did you forget to put em in ( hard to believe) or did they somehow work loose ( also hard to believe)
Just be awake for the state of origin tonight.
 

CMF_makes

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Hi Alex,

Crikey !. When you are putting it all back together I recommend you use some "locktight" fluid on all the bolt threads. Those bellhousing bolts are only done-up to a very light torque so I suspect they have just shaken loose....

I have used locktight over many years and I can't remember a bolt/nut ever working loose after I have used it.

Not having these bolts in place would certainly generate vibrations as the whole gearbox is probably moving around !.

Good luck... I hope it all comes good once everything is screwed back together.
 

CMF_Yom

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Well just an update for alex, because he is a bit peeved right now.

Seems the PBR clutch he bought is out of balance.

There's a lesson for ya'll. Buy quality even if it costs you a few bucks extra.
 

cisco

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You are kidding? How did you guys work that out?

Take it to a gearbox place? Or can you see some obvious faults in it?

I'm mega interested! I think exedy friction plates and those LUK Datrats pressure plates are the go.
 

CMF_Yom

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From what Alex told me he is just going by what Jim Berry @ Race Clutch has been able to tell him. Jim apparently had a good old chuckle at the PBR (last time I was there he said something along the lines of "most australian made clutch and brake gear is rubbish" lol...

Offtopic - he's a Fiat man at heart and he has a HUGE amount of respect for the K11 Micra. One of his employees heard us talking about micras and he was laughing as he cracked a joke about them, jim flipped around and started rattling off reasons why they're worthy of praise. :p
 

CMF_Alex_B

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ok, little update.

Jim is going to take measurements and advise me of what he finds out, hopefully tomorrow.
The rear sump, yes sump not rear crank seal is leaking a small amount of oil. There is oil/grease on the clutch friction plate adn pressure plate/housing which has come from me greasing the release bearing, which is not meant to be greased as it has a teflon impregnated poly bush (only small amount of graphite powder). There was also something coming from what it looked to be the input shaft on the gearbox (which i now know was some of my grease), so i decided to split the gearbox in half, hahaha, a few shims and part of a tapered bearing fell out > was spewing at this point, but then figured out where they go. Discovering that to replace the gearbox input seal requires the removal of nearly all of the gearstacks, and selector stuffs, so i reasealed it and put it back together,

So im going to hit as many birds as i can with one stone.

Removing sump and fitting new front and rear sump seals.
Replacing rear crank seal.
Replacing Differential/CV input seals.
Machining flywheel again.
Cleaning up pressure plate (no LUK ones avail till late next week)
Attempting to clean up PBR friction plate/may just order a LUK one

Sending the whole lot to get balanced through another guy,

Alex
 

cisco

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Beautiful.

Mate, any wonder you had vibrations before.

Car is going to be super after this round. Well done.
 

CMF_White Knight

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Another day in the life of being a Micra owner.
I reckon a lot of us would qualify for a TV series along the lines of "Days of our Micra lives"
Like custard through a drinking straw these are the "Micra Days of our Lives"
Produced, written and directed by Cisco with a cast of thousands.
Glad you have reached a conclusion Alex.She will be as sweet as zooming across the Bribie Is. bridge.
 

CMF_makes

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I can also recommend Jim Berry @ raceclutch as good guy to deal with... Hehe he must be wondering why he has suddenly had all these enquiries about micra clutches.. ;)

I also contacted him last month to purchase a "sports" LUK clutch (just like the one GTRHolic bought from him recently). He was very friendly, knowledgable and seemed keen on Micras.

He told me that quite a few years ago he supplied the same LUK clutch kit for the "Brinkman" Micra that did well in the Aust Rally Championship and this team never seemed to have any problems with it. His advice was that LUK tended to be a bit better quality that most other brands.

Unfortunately it seems that GTRHolic got the last LUK sports kit in Australia !... Jim has had mine on backorder for about a month now but hopefully it is expected to turn up next week.

Good luck Alex I hope the work all goes well.
 

CMF_Alex_B

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relised i had some clutch pivot arm parts ive fitted those up this morning. almost had complete disaster though :p so i have a new sleeve and oil seal fitted, old ones were nicely worn, had shaft freeplay,

Alex
 

CMF_Alex_B

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OK, flywheel has massive runout. Meaning the clutch face is not parallel to the crank mounting face, and due to the design being a two piece and the rear piece being pressed steel, we are scratching our heads on how to fix it. after machining the face their going to try moving the rear plate around in different positions,

No Rear Crank Seals in AUS, only EX Japan > so ill miss out on one of those,

Alex
 

cisco

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Eek, yeah that's looking a bit fouled up isn't it mate.

You mean I was lucky to get that rear main engine oil seal recently?
God they are hopeless.
 

CMF_Yom

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cisco WROTE:

"Eek, yeah that's looking a bit fouled up isn't it mate.

You mean I was lucky to get that rear main engine oil seal recently?

God they are hopeless.
Click to expand...

I think they might have just had a sudden influx of micra owners wanting particular parts lately - like LUK's australian distribution agency has hahaha
 

CMF_makes

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Yeah, I also have a rear seal on backorder also.... I think GTRHolic got the last one of those in Australia also.. :)

Hey Alex, don't forget Perfectrun have brand new Jun flywheels for around $550 including delivery... I got mine in about a week from the day of order direct from Japan. Might be better value for money long-term than spending heaps on machining the standard flywheel ?.
 

CMF_makes

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Hi Alex,

May I ask what parts you obtained for the clutch pivot arm and where you got them from ?. I expect mine will probably be worn out also.

When I changeover my clutch I want to have all the parts available so I can just do the job properly in one day.... so I will probably try an get hold of these as well.

Thanks.
 

CMF_Alex_B

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just got back to parents house after borrowing car, waiting to hitch ride home with brother now :p

i'll post up the part numbers you need when i get home makes

So, flywheel was turned flat on lath, then they took a kilo out of the back too pass time :p, then ground the front. Disassembled the PBR housing/pressure plate, cleaned it, modified to be stronger, reassembled. Ordered new 180mm LUK clutch plate as old one was fouled with small amount of grease due to my greasing of the thrust bearing, have kept it as emergency spare though (incase gearbox seal goes :p). So its all nice and shiney new, and done for a very good price btw, thumbs up for boyts at Jim Berry Race Clutch. Didn't bother with balancing as their balanced from factory, my flywheel was not pulled apart by the local mech shop for grinding so it was ground via the accuracy of the bolts sticking out the back, like shooting ducks blindfolded, ie. way off the scale,

I really worry what having this unbalanced flywheel on my motor for 14 000Km has done to the crank, bearings and rear crank seal,

Now i just gotta put it all back on :D haha, this is becoming strangley fun, but painfully expensive

Alex
 

cisco

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Good news once again.

Those 2-piece factory flywheels are stupid aren't they.
 

CMF_Alex_B

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all together.

gearbox went on like a breeze ( yes i put the dust plate on first this time :p), same with CV's, got caught up with clutch pedal returning in the car, sorted that. filled with oil,

w0000 yeh. Well after driving around everyone elses cars teh past few days, i can truley say I Love My Micra, haha,

Alex
 

cisco

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Yeah!!!

Well done Alex!

Its great when it all comes together.

So are all the vibrations gone etc?
 

cisco

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Maybe we need a batch import of B-Crews engine dampers.

White Knight was keen for one too.

I could possibly get hold of a few if there were enough people keen.

But $200 each would probably be the going price. Its not cheap unfortunately.
 

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CMF_Alex_B

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sorry makes,

30507-M8001 SEAL-DUST, CLUTCH HOUSING
30521-M8001 BUSH-CLUTCH CONTROL

38342-M8001 SEAL-OIL, DIFFERENTIAL X2

12279-1F700 SEAL-OIL, CRANKSHAFT REAR

11121-4F100 GASKET-OIL PAN FRONT
11121-4F110 GASKET OIL PAN REAR

32113-M8000 SEAL OIL, INPUT

The Differential seals are the ones the CV shafts use on the gearbox. One of them and the two Clutch Arm parts are in the diagram below

Alex
 

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CMF_Alex_B

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OKay, did the sump yesterday. as most of the engine hangs down into the sump, you need to remove the exhaust and the crossmember and support the gearbox with a jack. Getting it off was a breeze just refitting was difficult. Spotted some belt damage while i was under there, so i need two new belts now. Almost there!

Alex
 
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