Street replacements for EBC Greenstuff pads

[cisco]

Has anyone else with these had the harsh shudder that can come about after you've had them for a while? Mighty, do yours shudder yet?

The guy warned me when I first bought them about this. They never did it for ages, now they shudder all the time on the street. I thought I had a warped rotor, so I took it back and got him to check, he said its the pads and the rotors were still true. The pads have left all these black deposits all around the disc and the shudder is it biting on and off on the deposits. On the track you would burn all that off pretty quickly, but on the road with this size brakes, my car doesn't get a chance to heat them up enough because the brakes are huge for the car's weight.

I'm sick of my whole car shuddering terribly, it makes everything rattle to pieces. So at the minimum, I'm going to get some replacement street pads and keep the EBCs for if I go to the track.

But I'm also thinking about whether I need the huge AD22VF brakes again. They are heavy and affect unsprung weight. You can feel the front corners of the car feeling heavier after installation I reckon. Realistically on the street, I never need this kind of braking power. I'm sure the N14 brakes with some decent pads would be sufficient. They wouldn't look as hardcore, but they would be more practical for daily driving. It would also eliminate the need for me to get a larger master cylinder because the pedal feels spongier with the bigger brakes installed as its piston is larger.

Thoughts? Any experiences with decent pads for the street?

This is part of my ongoing rattle/harshness/NVH reduction program.

Thanks.

 

[CMF_NotAnotherSSS]

The pulsar boys seem to be having some good experiences with lucas pads.

Give them a go before ditching the monster brake set up.

I highly doubt the differences in weight between the ad18 and the ad22's would be noticeable on the street.

 

[cisco]

Mostly unsprung weight. An extra 1 or 2kg moving up and down with every single bump makes a massive difference to how the car feels. So does having an extra kg or so rotating around when accelerating. You can notice a reduction in acceleration with the monster brake setup. Most definately.

I might get a set of 18Vs and throw them on to try it for a while.

 

[CMF_Sean]

Cisco, mine don't shudder at all

But I purposely brake late so as to not develop the shudders...

No one likes my driving style

 

[cisco]

Yeah fair enough.

I'll get some different pads and throw them on and see if it gets rid of the shudder.

Thinking of leaving the ABS there now. bah.

 

[CMF_Sean]

Yeah the shudder's really bad.

Cisco, try some Bendix Ultimate. Awesome performance but a lower operating temp so no more shudders. I agree, keep the Greenstuffs for the track.

Also, what happened to the other thread?

Sean

 

[CMF_Trev]

Yeah Cisco,

Go back to basics. The Green stuff work best at the 500 C mark (forget the actual temp specs). At these high temps there coefficent of friction is optimum. If you use these for road use you will never get the best from them, infact they are probably worse for easy slow street driving. That said they seam to be preety good around town for me and have a broad range of temp effectiveness. I have found them good on std disk/caliper setup, but I think I drive even harder that Mighty! Them fighting words, LOL.

Race compound pads are not recommend for street use for this reason. I suggest not using metal kings, I found they need a few stops to get them hot enough to start to bite on the race car (datsun). Ultimates are better if bedded in properly.

With your setup I would go for a soft road pad with a lower heat range particularly with your more oversize braking setup. This will give heaps better feel for daily use. For faster driving change you pads, ie track days and runs through the twisty hills.

Try using a wire brush to remove any residue off your disks and/or a good hard run on them with lots of serious braking (get mighty to drive!!!!).

Cheers
Trev

 

[cisco]

Thanks Trev..

I might as well keep these huge brakes as they will be perfect for track days etc. So yeah just having two sets of pads sounds like the go. You just can't give them a decent workout on the street because there's too much stopping power for the weight of the car.

N14 1.6 AD18V brakes would be good for giving the pedal a harder feel (smaller piston size) for the street. Then could always throw on the super brakes for the track.

 

[CMF_Polar]

you got the exact same problem my old ebc green pads caused. black burnt type stains/deposits which develop into holes on disc surface and warped effect/shudder. its from a faulty batch of ebc green pads. or this is what the symptoms are if you do get a faulty batch. is the formula of the pad a silvery mix or coppery? its the silvery ones that went bad. ebc told me of this mistake and replaced my pads and even my discs free of charge.

 

[cisco]

Yeah that's my exact symptoms! bah.

Burnt patches/stripes of black crap, and absolutely terrible shudder feel.

Gee that's allright mate. The brake shop guy warned me about it before I bought them. So he's not going to give me warranty and he's the local EBC dealer. So annoying!

Definately need to get it fixed up ASAP though, makes the car a mongrel to drive on the street.

Gee I just want a nice smooth rattle free car once again. Heh. We're getting there.

 

[cisco]

Hey you're dead right. EBC even list this new V4 (Version 4) of the greenstuff pads. Mine are heaps older than those.

It specifically says .. "The new formulation offers higher thermal conductivity and therefore reduces incidents of brake judder/shudder, better cold braking and better wear life over previous EBC green formulations."

I'll ring up the brake guy and see if he knows about the new V4 ones.

 

[cisco]

One guy said this..

"I wouldn't use the reds on the street, under normal circumstances they'll never be warm enough to work properly.

I'm using greens and they're great for a street pad, plenty of bite when cold and don't fade when hot. They are known to leave resin deposits on the rotors when they get really hot and that leads to shuddering brakes, but you can get it off with sandpaper and it's all good again."

 

[CMF_Tony]

Cisco check emails please...

 

[cisco]

And this..

"I tried the EBC Greenstuffs (v4) on my wife's Forester GT a couple of years ago. They were pretty good initially but after a few hard drives they started to leave black resin deposits. I tried the trick of sanding them off with some emery paper thinking that was causing the nasty pulsation through the pedal. Still no good so I had them checked at a workshop.

Turns out the rotors had warped - these were EBC slotted and dimpled rotors bought at the same time as the pads. Even though the pads had only done 2000 kays I threw them in the bin and got the rotors machined.

I will not spend a cent on EBC crap again."

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

My experiences with brake pads is:
- using Lucas Pads on N14 front rotors/stock rear rotors and so far been brilliant. No squeeking, not too dusty (all the good ones are) and most importantly can take a reasonable amount of heat with minimal fade (after 10 laps around Barbagallo track). Also reasonably priced.
-Bendix Ultimates/Metal Kings are both pretty similar (despite their claims) and would rate them in the same ball park as the Lucas pads. Pretty good street/competition compromise. Have had some pretty heavy track useage in another car with good results. Reasonably priced as well.
- Used EBC Greenstuff about 3 years ago so probably an old version. Verdict - crap! OK for street use with good initial bite but under hard use were hardly much better than factory pads. Sounds harsh but unless they've made some giant leaps forward they're not worth the money. They were also as dusty as any other pad (which was meant to be their one claim to fame). Did't find sqeeking/shuddering though.

Verdict: Best brake pads for you boil down to how hard you plan on using them. Unless you're barelling around a track you might not find their shortcomings.

 

[CMF_evade]

ive got bendix pads:
$57.00 Bendix DB1216 Advance Pads (Rear)
$64.00 Bendix DB1309 Premium Pads (Front)

Do the job fine. Even on the track i didn't have any trouble..

got them from HTB performance here in melbourne

 

[CMF_evade]

they can get a little dusty though

 

[cisco]

I rang the brake place today.

New RDA (Not slotted) front discs in 26mm GTiR/N15 SSS specs, $110 each side. $220 total for front. Not bad.
They claim RDAs are better than DBAs.

QFM (Queensland Friction Material) front pads $55 total for the front. They said this setup will be nice for the street and that I should keep both my existing rotors and pads (used together only) for the track. He said the current discs will never be good for the street any more after having the EBCs do this.

So going to order these on Wednesday. Will be great to have smooth progressive braking once again.

 

[CMF_Pyro]

What about the brembo discs with lucas pads. People around here use this combination a lot, probably these micra's are not as powerfull as yours, but it should provide enough brakepower. Just a suggestion...

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

cisco, QFM pads are as hard as rocks (not nice to rotors). We used to use them all the time in the workshop until about a year or so ago, they were to dusty & would shorten the life of the rotors when compared to a bendix advance pad (they even kill your rotors faster then bedix ultimates & and that saying something).

 

[cisco]

Thanks Snoopy.

Do they have varying grades/models of pads made by QFM?

So do they bite well and feel responsive on the street?

Dust sucks and so does chewing out rotors! Thanks for the heads up.

 

[cisco]

Hmm Brembo discs for the micra's factory disc size? Didn't know you could get them, that's pretty cool.

 

[CMF_Snoopy]

Cisco, qfm didn't have different grades/models that I was aware of when we were still using them, but that was a year ago so they may have added to there line up. They take ages to bed in, but once they do they have a reasonable feel (but they must be bedded in properly), but there are better pads that aren't as nasty to rotors that have beter feel.

While I have yet to use them bendex have changed there model range, they have removed the advanced range & replaced them with ct general purpose & removed the premium & metal kings & replaced them with ct heavy duties & they are supposed to be very good, but like I said I haven't tried them yet, there wasn't any around when I did my pulsar brake swap (1.6).

Atm I'm running rda slotted rotors with bendex advanced pad (I'm using them to bed in the rotors) & I do heaps of mountain driving & so far I've givin them a hiding (including getting them smoking!) with zero pad fade, mind you I not trying to stop a turbo monster. I want to try ebc greenstuff soon, buit now I might wait awhile & see if the new batch is good or not.

 

[cisco]

Thanks fellas.

Picked them up today. Got the RDA discs (non slotted for the street) because the price was $110 vs. $165! Screw that - my brakes are big enough as it is.

I asked him about the QFM pads. He said these are the normal street/softer grade compound. They also come in a harsher compound, but he'd need to order that in. So maybe they have softened it now not sure. But anyway they were cheap so I'll give them a try and see how it goes. Has to be better than my current shudder city!