should i change headgasket? // problems in the future if i do not

[egres_svk]

should i change headgasket? // problems in the future if i do not // videos

hi guys,

I'll jump right into it:

My micra k10 '86 1.0L with 222222,2 km done last week has problems.. again..

Maybe some of you remember my thread with distributor - stuttering under high load. I've replaced HT leads, checked coil, altered dizzy's timing, cleaned carb, replaced air hoses, tried Velfobin (water displacer) in fuel.. everything helped for a short time..

Now I regularly experience small, and big problem.

Small: When I am running low on fuel, engine runs great, nearly no misfiring. After topping the tank off, it sucks. Stuttering under load, sudden misfiring (it comes and goes randomly, lifting foot from pedal for a sec usually helps). What a hell? Fuel pump? Fuel filter is new.

Theoretically i could disconnect the pipe behind fuel pump and look if it pumps fuel when i crank the engine.

Large: I experience nearly same problem as john279 with cooling water.
http://www.micra.org.uk/showthread.php?t=23776
Month ago i've replaced the water in cooling system. It was brown, smelly. But not oily-smelly, i can't describe it.. it is strong, pungent.. i have no problems with nearly sniffing oil, but this smell is disgusting..

I fill the reservoir tank to Max line. Radiator is topped with water. When i look into the tank after few days, it is usually empty, or near empty.

Today it was empty. I've filled it to the max line. Started the engine, waiting for the temp gauge to go to the 1/3. (it never overheats, not even while driving up the hill on 2nd gear full throttle for a few minutes)
-after few minutes i noticed small increase in reservoir..
-opened the reservoir cap and slammed the throttle lever on carb to bring it to 3000rpm and quickly returned to idle.. the level in tank went down 5mm and back
-while keeping the engine on 1500-2000rpm, i noticed stable decreasing of the level, maybe 1mm/10sec
-turned off the engine, reservoir started filling with water.. fast.. when it was closing to the open cap, i started the engine again.. water level came down very quickly, it was under max....
-shut engine down, water level stayed a little bit over max

- i assume that if I let the water leave the tank through the pipe in cap and returned tomorrow morning, the tank would be near empty, or at the min level.. few days ago i turned the "toomuchwater" pipe at the water/mud deflector at the bottom and it is wet almost every time

-sometimes when i stop the engine, i hear strong bubbling from engine.. another blown headgasket symptome?

Oil level is high, if min=0 max=1, it is at 1.5.. oil itself looks, hmm, oily.. it is not milky (no dilution with water), but it is a bit dark.. i want to replace it and oil filter tomorrow.. i bought the car with that much oil in it but did not get to check what's wrong..

So, few questions:
1 Is it blown headgasket?
2 where does the water go? in a piston?
3 why does it overflow when i stop the engine, and where do the bubbles come from?
4 can i diagnose it by opening radiator cap and cranking engine? if water bursts out, houston we have a problem? (the big pipes are hot, but not very hard - if there is pressure, i doubt that there will be much of it)
5 can i diagnose it by running the engine with one of the spark plugs out and looking through hole for water?
6 does that cause misfiring?
7 what if i dont replace the gasket and let it be?

thank you all

 

[Baz]

You change the plugs and check points?

 

[egres_svk]

today i changed oil. Old one was black in pan and dark brown on fingers.. compared to new oil which was nearly transparent.. crap

i've also checked spark plugs again, heads were slightly brownish and sandpaper-like. something like first plug here
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp

then i set up idle speed and fastidle and went to test car on road.. almost everything OK, except some small misfiring on idle while standing still (if misfiring is something like i've disconnected one plug for a 0.1 sec, thats it)
during driving there was misfiring, but only every two minutes..

i started with empty coolant reservoir and arrived with medium (between min max) level..

like i said before, radiator coolant level is still high, when i unscrew the cap, it is full to the top, even the cap is wet

and one more thing - when i had spark plugs removed, i took a light and looked down the plug holes - i've seen pistons, there was definitely no water inside.. all piston top surfaces were dark grey and kinda looked like rough grey sandpaper



got some videos:

name tells you what will you see

exhaust_ok_sound.mp4

exhaust_misfire_sound.mp4

exhaust_misfire_sound2.mp4

exhaust_misfire_sound3.mp4 (good one)

vacuum_gauge.mp4

 

[Speedle]

change the dissy from point to Electronic ignition, ive seen this issue before on the older dissy's and when i changed mine to Electric Dissy it ram a million times better.

the k10 dissy (all types) seem to stop working very well after about 100k, some older memebers will remeber mine failing at santa pod once

i awlays had several spares after that

the colour of your plugs sounds ok to me

 

[egres_svk]

change the dissy from point to Electronic ignition, ive seen this issue before on the older dissy's and when i changed mine to Electric Dissy it ram a million times better.

the k10 dissy (all types) seem to stop working very well after about 100k, some older memebers will remeber mine failing at santa pod once

i awlays had several spares after that

the colour of your plugs sounds ok to me

if i understood correctly, old type is with vacuum advance valve, new one has 3 or 4 wires coming from it.

i have 2 cars, one micra k10 1.0 and one 1.2.. 1.2 has been standing in previous owners garage for 5 years, i towed it home and i use it for spares..

do you know how should i connect it? in 1.0, vacuum dissy has only one cable connected to coil with faston
1.2 with electronic has green, red and white one..

i believe that electronic adjustment of timing is done with ECU (this car has simple ECU with three connectors (20 or so wires) under passengers seat), so.. (if needed, i have no problems with electronics, so i can build my own "advancing" circuit if i knew how - it depends on throttle position if i am correct)

_________________
another thing: today i made 200km trip... nearly NO stuttering.. amount of fuel in tank half to quarter.. what if fuel pump is failing? when the tank is full, does it need to work more to overcome more pressure or something? (just an idea)

/sorry for my english

 

[Veseli]

ECU uses the information from crank angle/ref. mark sensor (inside distributor), ECT sensor and boost pressure sensor to compute the adequate ignition timing. Without signal from the first one, the engine won't start, and if the signals from the other two sensors are missing or faulty, the timing would be wrong especially at high revs.

 

[john279]

Large: I experience nearly same problem as john279 with cooling water.
http://www.micra.org.uk/showthread.php?t=23776
Month ago i've replaced the water in cooling system. It was brown, smelly. But not oily-smelly, i can't describe it.. it is strong, pungent.. i have no problems with nearly sniffing oil, but this smell is disgusting..

I fill the reservoir tank to Max line. Radiator is topped with water. When i look into the tank after few days, it is usually empty, or near empty.

Today it was empty. I've filled it to the max line. Started the engine, waiting for the temp gauge to go to the 1/3. (it never overheats, not even while driving up the hill on 2nd gear full throttle for a few minutes)
-after few minutes i noticed small increase in reservoir..
-opened the reservoir cap and slammed the throttle lever on carb to bring it to 3000rpm and quickly returned to idle.. the level in tank went down 5mm and back
-while keeping the engine on 1500-2000rpm, i noticed stable decreasing of the level, maybe 1mm/10sec
-turned off the engine, reservoir started filling with water.. fast.. when it was closing to the open cap, i started the engine again.. water level came down very quickly, it was under max....
-shut engine down, water level stayed a little bit over max

- i assume that if I let the water leave the tank through the pipe in cap and returned tomorrow morning, the tank would be near empty, or at the min level.. few days ago i turned the "toomuchwater" pipe at the water/mud deflector at the bottom and it is wet almost every time

-sometimes when i stop the engine, i hear strong bubbling from engine.. another blown headgasket symptome?

Oil level is high, if min=0 max=1, it is at 1.5.. oil itself looks, hmm, oily.. it is not milky (no dilution with water), but it is a bit dark.. i want to replace it and oil filter tomorrow.. i bought the car with that much oil in it but did not get to check what's wrong..

So, few questions:
1 Is it blown headgasket?
2 where does the water go? in a piston?
3 why does it overflow when i stop the engine, and where do the bubbles come from?
4 can i diagnose it by opening radiator cap and cranking engine? if water bursts out, houston we have a problem? (the big pipes are hot, but not very hard - if there is pressure, i doubt that there will be much of it)
5 can i diagnose it by running the engine with one of the spark plugs out and looking through hole for water?
6 does that cause misfiring?
7 what if i dont replace the gasket and let it be?

thank you all

Yes, hearing bubbling when engine stopped happened with my car.

When this bubbling has happened, have you quickly jumped out to check expansion tank ??

Are you losing water from Radiator (maybe top 2 inches, check when car cooled down) ??

Are you losing water from Expansion Tank ??

....2 where does the water go? in a piston?
The cooling system is over-pressurised & coolant is pushed out the overflow pipe.
(this happened with my car)

If you look at my thread, you will see my car initially did NOT overheat & I only lost some water.
I drove the car like this for months.

Later in the thread it started to overheat & car was losing lot more water.

Blown Headgasket symptoms can vary from mild where you can drive car & does not overheat to severe where car is overheating & misfiring.
.

 

[egres_svk]

i've just returned from ride..

after stopping i heard bubbling, so i rushed to check it..

overflow pipe is directed to mud protector at the bottom, and it is wet - something went out

water in expansion tank must have been overflowing, when i checked, it was maybe 2-3 cm from absolute top and went quickly down to max level (10cm from top)

also, the big pipe coming from the top of the radiator to the engine was active - when i touched it, with every bubbling sound i felt the water moving

i have never had to add water in radiator, when i unscrew the cap it is always wet - it is full to the edge

// i have also encountered another problem with carb, but i am going to explain it in another thread

 

[john279]

i've just returned from ride..

after stopping i heard bubbling, so i rushed to check it..

overflow pipe is directed to mud protector at the bottom, and it is wet - something went out

water in expansion tank must have been overflowing, when i checked, it was maybe 2-3 cm from absolute top and went quickly down to max level (10cm from top)

also, the big pipe coming from the top of the radiator to the engine was active - when i touched it, with every bubbling sound i felt the water moving

i have never had to add water in radiator, when i unscrew the cap it is always wet - it is full to the edge

// i have also encountered another problem with carb, but i am going to explain it in another thread

Is the coolant level in Expansion Tank gradually going down from previous level, when engine has cooled down after runs ??

If you are losing some coolant, the level in Expansion Tank must go down & eventually the level in Radiator will go down from previous level (when engine cooled down).
.

 

[frank]

Is the coolant level in Expansion Tank gradually going down from previous level, when engine has cooled down after runs ??

If you are losing some coolant, the level in Expansion Tank must go down & eventually the level in Radiator will go down from previous level (when engine cooled down).
.

my k10 never had an expansion tank, just a catch tank (and the water level in that tank is irrelevant), so if your pressure cap is fitted to the rad it,s not an expansion tank system, but if the tank does have a pressure cap (with a spring inside) then it is

 

[egres_svk]

my k10 has radiator cap with spring, like this one

http://www.autopartsfair.com/images/products/engineparts/g101051074fut.jpg

from the top of the radiator comes a pipe to the bottom of expansion tank/catch tank.. this tank has 2 indicator lines, min at 1/3 and max at 2/3.. from the top of this tank comes another pipe with an open end.. overflow pipe

when there is too much pressure in radiator, water comes to the tank.. if low pressure, water comes from tank to rad

as far as i know, there was not any drop of coolant level in radiator.

i will let the water be and just drive for a couple of days.. if the rad will be still full of water, no problem, right?

 

[john279]

my k10 never had an expansion tank, just a catch tank (and the water level in that tank is irrelevant), so if your pressure cap is fitted to the rad it,s not an expansion tank system, but if the tank does have a pressure cap (with a spring inside) then it is

On mine the Pressure cap is on the radiator.

If too much pressure, the cap opens coolant goes out top into a tube which goes to a tank to the side (Expansion Tank/Catch Tank -same thing ??).

The "Tank" has an overflow which goes to side of radiator.

When my system was overheating the level in that Tank would rise to top, then overflow out the tube down side of radiator.

When it cooled the level in Tank would drop back down.

This is what happened when my system was overheating/not working properly.

In normal operation when system working correctly, I thought the tank basically keeps the radiator topped up.

I'm not sure whether the Tank level goes up/down when everything is working ok.
Haven't looked closely, as you do, as often you only look when there is a problem.

I'll check my car, see what happens with Tank level.
.