Rear suspension... again...

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

Hi, i'm a new member (from Belgium).

I'm driving around in a K11 1.0 from 1993 (It's my daily). It's a bit ratty, but i love it to bits.

I also have two other cars, but those are from another brand.

I don't have a lot of experience, so probably i'm asking something really dumb.

I was wondering if it's possible to ditch the solid rear axle suspension? This is something that has bothered me for a long time and if it's possible i want to chance it into a semi-independent suspension

http://www.priceminister.com/image?action=slideshow&prdimageid=863231097&productid=103715636

(Sorry, i don't know the proper names of the different types of suspension in English)

Do K10 micras (1.2 60hp NA models, we didn't get superturbos and sutch) have a similar suspension or not?

Thanks in advance

Bognostraclum

 

[CMF_frank2]

hi
the k10 has a similar beam axle, but without the panhard rod and with coilover shocks (i,m hoping to fit one to my red trackcar to shed some weight)

frank

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

frank2 WROTE:

"hi <BR>the k10 has a similar beam axle, but without the panhard rod and with coilover shocks (i,m hoping to fit one to my red trackcar to shed some weight)<BR><BR>frank

Thanks!

It seems to be some sort of "trailing arm" solid axle (Don't know how to say it otherwise). I suppose if it "fits" one would for starters have to weld brackets for the n°2 trailing arms.

When are you going to try the conversion? I'm very eager to see whether it's possible or not...

 

[CMF_frank2]

i dont know when it will be, i,m pretty busy doing other mods to it at the mo lol http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/22225-frank-s-k11/page21
i think the trailing arms will be ok, but the upper diagonal brackets and panhard mounts will need transfering over eh

frank

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

OMG, that's a very cool K11. Superb steelies and nice "stance"!

I think i've found my new source of inspiration...

I'm going to read that thread you posted. I hope you won't mind me asking a lot about all the stuff you've been doing to it.

Momentarily, i'm working on my first ever car-project (EFI conversion). It scares the **** out of me, but if it that goes well, i think the Micra will be next...

Thanks again for the info!

 

[CMF_Yom2]

Triangulation. Interesting. Naturally changing this on a road micra in australia would be out of the question. And I don't know if the fabrication required would be worth it anyway. You'd certainly run into issues with clearance in the rear and would need floorpan modification and/or extended bumpstops.

There's not really anything wrong with the panhard rod to control lateral axle movement - and in the micra's case it is about as long as is really possible.

Brings me to my next thought, has anyone bothered look at the k11's roll centre? A panhard rod presents a very easy way to change the suspension's roll centre.

Plenty of info around the web for you crazy tuners to google. keywors: panhard rod, track bar and roll centre adjustment.

tip: forget asthetics if you want superb handling.

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

Personally, i'm not really looking for superb handling. It's just one of my quircks i guess, but the rear suspension really bugs me. I just don't like panhard-rod setups or watts-linkages.

Also,the micra is my daily, so looking cool is more important to me (I know, i'm shallow).

Momentarily i'm trying to revive an old german turbo car (which might become a track-toy) but chances are i'll just screw everything up and turn it into a worthless pile of parts...

 

[CMF_Yom2]

You bought the wrong car to look cool in.

Solid axles on small cars are NOT cool regardless of suspension linkages

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

Yom2 WROTE:

"You bought the wrong car to look cool in.<BR><BR>Solid axles on small cars are NOT cool regardless of suspension linkages

No problem, it's all in the eye of the beholder (I hope i used this phrase correctly). I think it's cool, but most male friends make fun of me and my little box on wheels. Nevertheless, most girls think the Micra is cooler then my 968 so it's all good for me.


I would prefer independent rear suspension too, but for me the K10 suspension seems to be the most sensible compromise for the moment.
I'm still looking if a Twingo setup would fit, but i'm afraid the track is to wide for starters.

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

The rear track of an old VW Polo seems to be only 1 mm different.
I suppose a torsion beam axle would be better (suspension performance) and give less clearance issues?

 

[CMF_Yom2]

VW since the transition to FWD econobox vehicles have been using torsion bar rear ends in their vehicles for markets which have low standards of vehicle ride, road holding and handling qualities. Markets like the USA.

From my memory of the k11 floor:

If you wanted to triangulate the rear end as per K10, you would need to relocate the fuel tank. If you got the triangulation right, it'd probably be very similar to drive to how it is currently. I think there's room to triangulate it but there'd be very little lateral control of the axle - need some big angles to make it work well, and some really firm bushings (preferably not rubber or polyurethane either, something metal)

If you wanted coil overs as per the K10 you would need to enlarge the strut towers in the back end, possibly removing the rear seats (and again, fuel tank) + new brackets on axle for these to bolt to plus the new angle of the shock might result in the bump absorption to be all wrong and therefore unsettling to drive.

Best option if you want it to look cooler without reducing functionality is to drop the panhard below the axle and paint everything bright colours.

My opinion anyway

 

[CMF_frank2]

many of the coily,s are true coil-over yom (like stani,s in the pic) and they just mount on the shock mounts (only the rally guys strengthen them)
and the k10 stock ones are pretty slim too

 

[CMF_frank2]

so hopefully a direct fit, and i should be able to remove the top spring platform too

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

So, a K11 "shock-tower" (Only shocks) can be used as a "coilover-tower" (Shocks + coils). Just to be certain that i understand this correctly...

 

[CMF_frank2]

Bognostraclum WROTE:

"So, a K11 "shock-tower" (Only shocks) can be used as a "coilover-tower" (Shocks + coils). Just to be certain that i understand this correctly...

yes mate, that pic is from stani,s blog
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/37876-Stani-s-1.0l-5-Door!!?
but there are other members with those type of coily,s on
( iirc matt MPH advises to strengthen the turrets if you intend rallying tho)

frank

 

[CMF_Bognostraclum]

Thanks for the info.

 

[CMF_Yom2]

It will work but there's some serious cutting required there.