N/A Micra

CMF_Urban

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I'm just wondering whether anyone knows what would be required to get around 100kw out of the 1.3 motor while staying N/A?

Expensive route... but interests me. :)

I'm guessing new internals and radiator... etc etc...

Any ideas ?

Cheers Cameron.
 

CMF_Urban

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And yes, i have read through GTRHOLICS BALL TEARER NA CG13 thread.

But i was more just looking for an outline of parts required.

Like...

Forged pistons
Forged Rods
Upgraded radiator
etc etc

Just so i know what eventually i'll need to try and find.

Thanks, Cameron.
 

CMF_micra-man

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Hey, I know these two cars are running turbos (Reverb & aaron) but they both have around 90kw-100kw with standard internals.

Is that a whopping +70% over standard kw rating on standard internals. What an awesome piece of engine manufacturing by Nissan.

So why not just add an extra injector, piggyback ECU & Nitrous?

That should stir up some controversy ;-)
 

cisco

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I wouldn't really worry about the radiator at that level of power.

Turbo is by far the best bang-for-your-buck power up. All depends on what you want. You can't beat the sound of an NA car etc. There's just something about NA that is really nice and unique I agree, but you will pay a lot of money for any substanial kind of power gain, and it will never produce the same torque as a turbocharged engine.

But for a nice NA setup, I would go:
- datrats or JUN lightweight flywheel
- tomei cams
- fully programmable ECU (raise revs to 8000rpm)
- SR20 throttle body with adaptor plate (quads ideal, but hard to get outside of Japan)
- really efficient air intake
- small higher compression head gasket
- 2" press bent exhaust, 4-1 extractors for high revving power or 4-2-1 for more midrange drivability on the street.
- strip heaps of weight out of it :)

And the ultimate is to buy some extra japanese parts like: aspect or mulholland high compression pistons, and mulholland 10,000rpm crank!

I would hate to think of the cost.!
 

CMF_White Knight

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Also have a chat to Errol if you want to go down the NA path. He is mad keen for someone to go this way and he has a lot of insane ideas how to make it a real screamer but totally reliable.
If White Knight had not ended up supercharged it would have gone down this road.
 

CMF_Urban

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Well i certainly do want to go down the road of N/A.

And yes this is going to be very expensive, lol.

But it is going to be over many years... Nothing dramatic... lol.

Don't want to get anything wrong.
 

CMF_Pyro

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I plan to go down the N/A road. But I want to keep the car driveable, how much does the JUN flywheel affect the idle when standing still? You really have to keep it reving up a little bit? And what are the affects of the cams, planning the 256's. I want to give my baby some extra power, but again keep things drivable.
 

CMF_Sean

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You can source GTiR quad throttle bodies through PulsarParts for around $500... Modding them will be around $100-$200

Very much worth while...

I'd go for a full aftermarket ECU rather than a piggyback on an N/A screamer

Sean
 

CMF_NotAnotherSSS

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I think to get 100kW @ wheels while staying 1300cc you'd need to have more revs than the stock ECU can deliver...

In saying that though I believe the CG13DE as a whole is perfectly capable of 8000rpm. I think nissan actually used decent bottom end bearings in it...
 

CMF_Urban

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Can anyone reccomend a ECU that would do the job?

And also, Yes i do plan to go the whole way... as much power as i can get... But i was using 100kw as a benchmark...

It's going to be a LONG project... But i'm still young... Plenty of time to do it. ;)
 

cisco

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Awesome.
I'd love to check it out one day when I visit Newcastle!

In Australia, you have a lot of choice of decent ECUs.
Autronic and Motec are the best.

Microtech will also work perfectly, just doesn't have as many features, but will definately make as much power as the other ones. Microtechs are just less refined in terms of the level of mapping points and extra features like anti-lag, lean-cruise, auto-tune etc etc. But they are a lot cheaper and easy to install and tune.

Then there are heaps of others Haltech, Apexi, or whatever else you can find.
 

CMF_Urban

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Thanks a tonne cisco.

Yes, It won't be a speedy project...

My guess it'll be 3 years or more... (All depends on whether my dad wants to help fund the project or not. lol)

I'm still only 17 so it's no rush.

Also does anyone know any online parts shops (such as www.modyourcar.com)

I'm thinking of making a list of car parts online, and wheels online etc etc, So i can just look at the list... instead of trying to google, and coming up with nothing...

So does anyone know any? If so post them all up! (If it's alright to do on the forum)

Cameron.
 

CMF_Urban

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Also, if you could pick an ECU for a N/A car between Autronic and Motec, which would you choose? and what model?

All the information they provide... I have no idea...

So does anyone have any experiences with either?

Or know what i should look for in the ECU?

Cameron.
 

CMF_GTRHOLIC

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both the autronic and the motec are both fantastic computers. but i would say overkill when it comes to a micra. the guy that developed autronic was a partner with the dude at motec, but both went their separate ways in the end. apparently both systems are very similar. but motec has the upper hand as it is regulation in the v8 supercars that the motec must be used. i was looking at getting a motec for my gtr. the unit itself is 3200-3600. (m600 m800) wiring, sensors and harnesses and a basic tune once installed, dont expect much change out of 5-5500. but i suppose the good thing about motec is that you can use it in any future car that you buy. but 5k for a micra, 5k for a computer, thats not a lot of money left for the actual modifications (ie cams, turbos etc) for the motec to control!
 

CMF_Sean

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Hey Urban...

I'd recommend reading this article to see *some* of the components you will need, and to guage what kind of power increase you can expect...

Page1:
http://www.micra.com.au/photos/albums/k11/media/christ1.jpg
Page2:
http://www.micra.com.au/photos/albums/k11/media/christ2.jpg
Page 3:
http://www.micra.com.au/photos/albums/k11/media/christ3.jpg

For those engine mods alone the cost will be around AUS$4000ISH. Obviously lower if you do some work yourself or know some mechanics.

To put it into perspective, add 2 more thousand dollars and you can have a turbo Micra that puts out enough power at 7psi to hold off an SS into 4th gear... (thats my low boost :D)

Sean
 

CMF_Nissanmania

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That's a hot little Micra. Some exotic bits there.

I'm slowly developing a N/A micra power-up so very interested by this thread. Am being guided by info on this site as well as Errol and my local engine builder. One thing we still haven't decided on is the throttle setup. Larger throttle body vs quad throttle body vs build custom plenum + single throttle body. There's pros and cons for each. Haven't heard of using GTiR ones so may investigate. Going to use Motec M4 so which way we go is not a problem as far as tuning. Looking at going for more revs without going insane - eg 8000rpm max.

Major hurdle will be getting a LSD in the std box without going for a one out of an EXA etc with taller ratios - counter productive I feel to a NA performance build.

Good to hear someone else is interested in going down this road. Don't know totally what to expect but will be an interesting exercise. Will post progress as comes to hand.

 

CMF_Urban

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Been pondering over my mind the last few days... SO i thought i mays well ask it!

Does anyone have an idea of a ball park figure out what type of kilowatts or horsepower you can achieve from a N/A 1.3l?

Just been bugging me, as i have no idea.

Cheers Cameron.
 

CMF_w8upforme

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For streetuse on a n/a 1.3 that(140bhp) is probably the maximum you can get if you want it to be driveable in normal traffic, Mullholland trackracer though produces 190bhp from the 1.3, but be very afraid of the costprice of that.

 

CMF_Nissanmania

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Errol has advised that could expect 165hp at the flywheel with his spec cams and pistons increasing compression plus other ancillaries. This is roughly the same power to weight ratio as a WRX. Would get better if lightened car of course. Would be streetable but would not expect to idle smoothly with 300 degree cams and would expect to lose some power at lower revs.
 

CMF_Ghetto Micra

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you cant use Gti-R quad throttle bodies on an n/a motor, as they arent 'tuned' for it. they are designed to have boost thrown down them rather than air sucked through them, if you get what I mean.

Autronic SM2 is an excellent ECU, esp with the CDI500 ignition and some good coils.. with loom, wideband 02, etc, you wont get change from $5k, much like the Motec.

Motec M4 would be a good purchase. if you can get a slightly old model, you'll get it cheap!

If I wanted to make big power off this motor, I'd be pulling the motor apart and redoing everything from scratch. including crank and block work. Ultimately you want increased capacity but more importantly increased compression. have the crank balanced, get forged internals and have them all checked for weight and tollerances, etc. Everything has to be perfect! metal head gasket, headwork, cams, valve springs, etc.

you wont be running regular pump fuel either if you want to make this kind of power. you'll need some high octane stuff.. :)

sounds like fun
 

CMF_Nissanmania

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WRX has about 200 flywheel hp which gives about 7 kg/hp.
Micra at around 850 kg and 165 flywheel hp gives about 5 kg/hp which is better than a standard rex. Lighter weight should make it handle/stop better.

My engine guy feels a single larger throttle body on a custom plenum will give the best compromise in retaining lower rev driveability but flowing better at higher revs. NA is all about optimising gas flow without the luxury of a big "pump" forcing air through the engine.

I'm a fan of Autronic as I've had 2 other cars using them, including their CDI ignition units. It boils down to what your tuner is comfortable with - hence the switch to Motec for the Micra.

My engine is going through a total rebuild - can check out progress at photo album listed with my forum details. Will be pushing around 11.5:1 compression or so. Don't have a fixed hp target, just want to make it as driveable as possible so it can handle a bit of motor sport duties.Don't plan on using exotic fuels - just 98 RON stuff.

There's no way you can get any real capacity increase out of the Micra motor to get more power. There's no spare bore wall thickness and the motor is already a stroker!
 

CMF_Tony

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Why not try one of those SR16-VVT motors you'll be up at around 130-150kw without any mods and it's aspirated.

Just something to think about, would probably work out cheaper to build and be more reliable.
 

CMF_Urban

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On the SR20 throttle body,

What about this? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LARGE-THROTT...itemZ4585891532QQcategoryZ43807QQcmdZViewItem

(From my understanding, You need to send a SR20 throttle body to THEM, they machine it then send it back)

Would having the SR20 TB increased help in a N/A micra?

Also, Would the MoTeC M4 Clubman be a fine ECU? (Would i be able to use it on future cars?)

I have a feeling I'm going to be asking a LOT of questions before this project is finished. LOL.
 

CMF_Ghetto Micra

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I wouldn't bother having an sr20 TB machined to then put on a standard cg13 intake manifold. The manifold itself would become a major restriction.

the Motec M4 clubman is a very low spec motec ecu, I'm not even sure they still make that model/range anymore. In any case, it would be ideal for an n/a micra. the M4 clubman doesnt have that many input/outputs, but for n/a you probably wont need much.. It's a great ECU! It will work on other cars you might have / build as well... depending on the cylinders and I/O required.
 
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