lowering & handling

CMF_bethpegs

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Ok so I'm looking to lower my 95 micra lx (with 13" rims).
I got a quote for Kings springs for $510 (fitted + wheel alignment). Is that a decent price for King Springs? I don't know, but I was hoping to get something a bit cheaper.

Bridgestone quoted me $350 for Pedders springs.

also strut braces and the like. SA suspension could supply and fit a strut brace to the front of the car for around $285.00.

i'm a novice in car gear- trying to learn though. Any suggestions for lowering and better handling- with prices at a minimum? what am i looking for? i just want a tighter and smoother ride.

any help would be grand!

cheers,

beth

 

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CMF_ed.

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Damn $150 for 4 kings springs drive in, drive out is pretty good!

Not sure if you can beat that price unless you install it yourself.
 

CMF_jay85

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hey ed read that again it sais $510

thats a bit $$$
here is a little inside secret... trade price on king springs is $110 for the front and the same for the back.... wheel allignment is about $30 so do the math and they are charging thru the arse to fit...

and remember kings are prone to to sag a little bit... nothing to worry about they just do it.... about another 10mm more... every set i have had has done this
 

CMF_mipcar

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The Kings I have fitted seem to be okay. Still no drama's with them. If they have sagged they have done it evenly. They've been on for a lot of yrs and miles now.
I've got a strut brace cannot say if it made a difference as it was fitted at the same time as the stabilisor bars.
I'd do the bars first before a strut brace.

Mike
 

CMF_JKL

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You kings would cost the fitter around $150 a set. $50 for your W/A and about $200 left in labour and his markup on parts.
Not too bad but you could prob do a bit better!
Definate firmer ride with the kings also... I lower a fair few cars and often end up resetting many sets of factory springs. You still have a fairy comfortable ride, lowered looks and firmer handling because the spring rate is set a little harder. Also your CD's dont skip like they do when you fit the Kings.
The big thing also is resetting is cheaper than replacement.
 

CMF_MICRA_MAN

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You maybe looking for a lower look and keep the smoother ride by resetting your current springs. This will save you $$$$ and get the end result your looking for. Think about why you want the car lowered? If for looks without the firmer ride then this is the way to go.

Cheers James
 

CMF_Yom

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*rips hair out*

Do not lower it if you don't want to put up with a firmer ride!!! I cant stress this enough.

You firm up the springs when you lower it as you have less suspension travel to play with. You HAVE to make the ride firmer or you'll be hitting the bumpstops regularly. hitting the bumpstops means your suspension is operating outside of its optimum geometry and this will cause issues with your tracking and steering. Not to mention put undue stress on the shockabsorbers and chassis of the vehicle. Not to mention resetting and cutting springs WEAKENS them.

I cannot fathom why people try and cut corners when it comes to their suspension. Its DUMB. DUMB DUMB DUMB. Its not the fact that you're risking YOUR life I care about its more the fact that you're risking OTHER PEOPLE'S lives which pisses me off as that includes ME and the people i LOVE and CARE for. DO NOT CUT OR RESET YOUR FACTORY SPRINGS.

If you want a lower ride height on a micra, accept the fact that you're going to have a firmer ride and you'll feel more bumps in the road. If you don't like the idea of this, then live with your standard ride height as its safer than taking shortcuts with the devices which push your wheels onto the road.

MY agro 2cents.
 

smidge

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its a tough choice in my experience...

king lows really do make the ride alot more bumpy, but put on with a set of decent new shocks you won't notice so much

is much nicer to peddle around the twisties in tho!
 

CMF_ed.

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Oh crap... I can't read LOL.
Anyway... I'm not a fan of lowering springs on stock shocks but not everyone has a budget set aside for coilovers I guess.

Have you priced lovell's?

I have G4's and they make the car so much more fun to drive :D
 

CMF_Yom

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Nothing wrong with proper lowered springs on stock shocks. You'll just experience shock failure (leaking, loss of pressure) sooner. If you run some brand new shocks on lowered springs for 80,000km and then prop them up on standard height springs, you will also experience failure sooner than normal.

If i can be bothered I'll go into how a shock absorber works and why this is the case...

 

CMF_bethpegs

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so much info! thanks everyone!!! ill have to sift through all that info and take it all in!

so which spring do you recommend? i've only priced pedders and kings. any others?

and no, i wont compress or cut my stock springs- thanks yom!

i want the car to handle corners etc better- be grippier and just feel tighter, etc. i'm thinking lowering would do that. i could handle a few bumps, but nothing too crazy. what should i do for all thta? just lowering, or other things?

thanks again!!!

-beth
 

CMF_Yom

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King Lows are produced with most people in mind.

I am actually changing out my Apexi springs which are progressive rate and offer a fairly compliant but sporty ride. But I've promised them to others first...

Trying to decide whether I go custom spring rates or buy plain whiteline springs (which i know will do what I want - I'm over lowering I just want the suspension to work within its available geometry.
 

CMF_bethpegs

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YOM!- u know what you're on about!!! - i wish i undertood what you meant too! haha.
*sighs* in time i shall learn! :D

in your opinion (and anyone else's), for my micra with 13" rims- what should i do for lowering and better handling- keeping in mind that i don't want to spend a fortune. and i'm not just talking springs, whatever else there is out there to make a better ride n better handling.

cheers
 

CMF_Yom

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Compared to the value of the car, anything you spend on the suspension will seem like a fortune.

I don't do things half arsed. I'd be setting aside $1000 for springs/shocks at a minimum. Swaybars will be around $200 each depending on where you go. Panhard rod is around $100 and then you've got the possibility of your bushings being flogged out which will be another $250 in parts (the rear bushings should be OK unless your car has carried any loads). And even with really grippy tyres a micra with the full suspension kit out will be very, very fun but also a very dangerous little thing to be flinging around corners. It will bite you hard if you use cheap tyres.. I should know lol :(
 

CMF_bethpegs

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hey thanks yom. when i first read that comment (the one before last) i either didnt see the 2nd paragrpah or it didnt appear on screen- thus my dumb answer. thanks heaps though.

it does get pricey though! maybe i can do things little bit by little bit. starting off with just springs for lowering would be ok though? then worry about the rest.

i've pretty much just got standard tyres on at the mo- so when they wear out ill upgrade to something a bit better.

(by the way, i'm not just talking to yom- all to hear, all to help!!)

thanks :D
 

CMF_ed.

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I reckon go the Kings for now BUT get a quote from elsewhere as well.

You can just slowly do the other things mentioned when you can afford it or if you feel you still need it.

I reckon some whiteline camber pins would be nice and they're not too expensive to get done at the same time as springs.
 

CMF_bethpegs

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camber pins hey? thanks ED! :D now i have to go research what they are :( haha ive been reading about suspension all day and have forgotten half of it already.

how about swaybars? are they important? if so which first -front or rear? or both? brands and rough prices?

 

CMF_bethpegs

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ok so i just rang a ton of places in SA about prices etc.

King Springs :
$135-139 (just the parts, not fitted)(same price for F and R)

King Spring fitted from 2 places (including parts) = $510.

Whiteline camber pins:
$85 for a pair
$101 kit.

Swaybars:
rear adjustable blade style- R =$240, F=$206 (plus $45 frieght and $50 each to install)
F= $218, R (22mm) = $176

I think I'm not gonna bother with swaybars, the lowering should do enough for me I think. i'll prolly get my mechanic to install most for me.

Will I need to replace the stock shocks for king springs lows?

cheers!
 

CMF_Yom

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Dropping the car around 30mm (average suspension drop with King spring "lows") will actually bring front wheel camber to a fairly nice angle for steering response without really causing wet weather grip issues, tracking issues or excessive tyre wear.

I'd leave the camber pins out unless you end up with camber issues (which you could if your car has been in an accident and is already running more negative camber than its meant to be)
 

CMF_Yom

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You'll get away with what is currently on there but not for long. The change in ride height will cause them to scrub themselves out internally and you'll be up for new ones in no time. It will be cheaper in the long run to just grab some new shocks now while you're at it. I'd go with KYB Excel G.

Rears arent so much of a problem as they're easily changed.
 

CMF_bethpegs

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excellent. just the info i was after.

except, i was just reading some other posts where majority of people were recommending whiteline springs as opposed to kings... gah. what's the deal? i want it lowered but not at illegal heights. whats the diff in prices between kings and whiteline?
 

CMF_Yom

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Whiteline are slightly more expensive but you're pretty guaranteed to get what you pay for. King springs are usually made on demand and can vary a little bit in their specs. Some people get great springs and others get springs which aren't quite right. Luck of the draw really.
 

CMF_mipcar

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I can say that with lowered springs and standard size 13inch rims that I've had no issues with tire scrubbing or alignment problems.

I had 2 micras once before.

Micra #1 (the 300,000k one). King springs for many yrs as only suspension mod. Standard shocks lasted to, well almost 300,000k's really. Then fitted heavier front and rear sway bars and they made a big difference.

Micra #2 (before Family hack). Not lowered, 13inch wheels. I fitted the heavier sway bars. My perception for what it is worth is that the heavier sway bars on standard ride height gave almost as much improvement as lowered car with heavier bars.

Mychael
 

CMF_bethpegs

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thanks mychael and yom!

mychael- interesting about your 2 micras. aesthetically, i would like to lower my micra- but also for improved handling. how was the handling on the lowered micra with king springs? perhaps i can get away without changing the shocks. i'm worried with swaybars about having oversteer, etc. is that a common occurrence and how do i get the right ones to prevent that?

THANKS!!!!
 

CMF_mipcar

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Handling just lowered was improved over stock. A stock standard Micra will understeer to buggery.
You won't get extreme oversteer if you choose carefully with your bars.

The stock rear was too light. I uprated both front and rears at the same time. I cannot recall the exact models but they were whiteline items.
Moderately heavier over stock. The rear is adjustable and set to the centre hole worked well with the heavier front.

I ran the lowered car with standard shocks for many yrs. This all on the assumption you keep standard 13inch rims and normal size but good quality tires.

Mike
 

CMF_bethpegs

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mmmmmm tough! i think one day in the distant future i will begin thinking about swaybars again, but as for now i'll not worry.

ill get king or whiteline spring for lowering. keep the standard shocks. and leave the suspension alone after that for a good while.

thanks again! i've learnt a lot today!

(next project to plan- exhaust and air intake!)
 

CMF_Yom

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Most people are happy with just the lowered springs and new shocks. They don't actually "improve" the handling all that much but they do give the impression of doing so and thats the main thing.
 

CMF_bethpegs

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sounds a bit like a mind over matter thing! i imagine i'd just be happy with the lowering and possibly new shocks, after all my last car was an 85 barina haha!

so its sway bars n strut braces etc that actually improve handling, otherwise it's pretty much just an impression...?

i mite let this thread die soon. ive got too many questions and dont want u 2 get sick of me just yet :p

thanks again!
 

CMF_Yom

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From here on it gets sort of complex to explain everything... Basically yes it will feel better to drive and IMO thats what your end goal should be for a car like the micra.
 

CMF_mipcar

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Lowering will also lower your cars center of gravity. See how tall four wheels drive "fall over" and a sportscar will not.
Of course it's all a matter of degree, extremes at either end of the scale make a lot more difference the moderate changes.

Mychael
 
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