Intercooler design..

[cisco]

As I need a new intercooler for blue monster, I've been working out the basic positioning for it and how the pipes will flow so that they are the most efficient design possible etc.

Am going to get a generic cheap intercooler from ebay or similar for about $200 as it will fit my setup pretty well and going to see how it performs by measuring both the pressure drop and the temperature drop. That will get me started without spending a fortune, if it turns out its not so good, I can get an expensive one later on.. But I plan to keep the cheap one if its reasonable. The end tanks are pretty good and they look fine.

Just going to get a heap of those silicone joiners and some 2.5" alloy pipe and just join up all the pipework myself with hose clamps. Should be very easy. Just have to make up some little alloy bracket things for mounting the intercooler with.

 

[CMF_NotAnotherSSS]

hmmm... you're going to be spending your life savings on that silicone hose if you're going to be using as much as I imagine!

Can i recommend the black rubber webbed stuff that manufacturers use on standard turbo cars these days? I believe you can get it from those automotive places which specialise in trucks.

Personal opnion after nearly falling over at the insane cost of the fancy silicone joiners. hehe

 

[CMF_evade]

As a side note

I was reading..

Bar+Plate for higher psi, flow less but better cooling

Tube+Fin for lower psi, they flow better but have a little less capacity to dissipate heat

take it as you will

 

[CMF_Ghetto Micra]

tube and fin would be the ultimate for a micra or smaller displacement motor. most generic chinese intercoolers are bar and plate because they are cheaper to manufacturer..

also cisco, you contradict yourself a bit in your post, you want to work on i/c positioning and the best flow by working out the best pipe pathway, etc.. but your going to use silicon joiners and pipe everywhere, etc..? haha

I guess for experimenting it's the way to go..

 

[CMF_evade]

http://www.micra.com.au/images/community/forums/6874.jpg

that was my cheaper intercooler that was tube and fin..looks ok i think?

 

[CMF_Ghetto Micra]

looks good hey. in all honesty, as long as it flows, without pressure, and after a good thrashing one tank is hot and the other is cold, you've pretty much got a reasonably efficient cooler.

a lot of people make the mistake of putting a big intercooler on a small turbo setup.. all you get is innefficiency and throttle lag, etc.

ultimately the best cooler setup for a micra would be something about 400 or 500 wide, 250 high, but the tanks at the top and bottom of the cooler, with vertical bars/tubes. so short running tubes with long tanks. Not horizontally long running tubes with small end tanks.

having said that, people want 'the look' therefore horizontally positioned tube/bars with vertical end tanks are more popular. I wonder how a water to air cooler system would go in a micra

 

[CMF_evade]

yeah I really dont think i need to change intercoolers.

mines only a tiny little about A5 size but yeah the intake pipe is actually cold after a good thrashing so it must be doing ok.

plus I really can't be bothered sorting out cooler piping AGAIN!

im so lazy. might be time to sell the cisco's custom one too as I need some cashola

 

[cisco]

What's wrong with silicone joiners and pipe? Erm you need pipe to join things and silicone joiners join the pipe. Sure you can weld it together later on to make something more permanent, but its a pain in the arse when you need to remove it to work on your car or pull your gearbox out etc.

Silicone joiners are fine as long as you make sure the two metal pipes inside the join are touching flush together. If you do it like that and then clamp it in place, its as good as a welded join.

Yes ideally you want long end tanks and short core but lots of core runners between the long end tanks. Not long core and tiny end tanks. As long as the cooler is square shaped, I.e. the core isn't longer than the end tanks, then its still efficient. But when you have very long core and tiny end tanks, its not all that crash hot. I am just going to install a generic one (approx square shape) for now, see how we go, then later on if I can be bothered (probably not) I might get a custom one made up with very long tanks and more wider than long core etc.

If you search for spearco of treadstone on www.ebay.com you will see a whole heap of nice coolers like that. All the ones I've seen have the end tank outlets in the wrong spot for my setup, but the coolers still look awesome.

 

[CMF_Sean]

Even better...

Do without an i/c all together

My mechanic and I tested my water injection setup the other week. Kept the sensor in the airflow just before the throttle butterfly for over a week and he says the intake temp never went over 3 degrees over ambient...

Bearing in mind that I do have an i/c but no vent to feed it some air so that will do even better with some airflow going over some atomised water.

Sean

 

[cisco]

Yeah that's one way. The guy in that maximum boost book doesn't like water injection. Mostly I think because it relies on a renewable resource, where as with a cooler you can just keep driving (until your petrol runs out of course). You only know something is good and reliable long term when F1/Indy/racing cars are using it.

I've never liked NOS or anything like that because you're constantly filling up various bottles of everything. I like to keep my car just using petrol like every other car and you just drive it.

So Sean, does this mean you're not selling your car now!!?

Finally got a vice and a bench grinder setup now.. Yesterday I was able to cut off an old 2.5" alloy pipe that I had and it made an absolutely perfect continuation from the pipe from my plenum. So now the pipework from the plenum is half done down to where it will meet the cooler. Looks bloody awesome. 2.5" all the way, very smooth, nothing in the way (now that the battery is gone). Just got to get some more alloy pipe to finish it off.

Its going to be a very smooth/direct path of pipe work this time.

 

[CMF_Sean]

No he's still up for sale... Not to say that I'm not still pampering him though bahaha

Also, the reason why you don't see water injection in any motorsport is because the sanctioning bodies unanimously agreed to ban it somewhere in the early 90's-late 80's (I think, can't exactly remember). The only annoying thing though is I go through around 2 tanks of fuel to 1 tank of fuel... Thats if I boost quite a bit though

Sean

 

[CMF_NotAnotherSSS]

Well then you need to build some kind of water creating device.

Condensor ahoy!

 

[CMF_White Knight]

Like some guttering around the roof line, a down pipe into a small rainwater tank in da boot!!!
No seriously water injection is very much overlooked. Set up properly you will achieve a better burn, cleaner engine and better fuel consumption.
Also means you can achieve higher boost due to colder denser air.
Seano have you tried adding a bit of metho to the water??
Will give you even cooler air and better combustion.
I run a 50/50mix and I use around 1.5ltrs of the mix every 3 tanks of gas but mine only is injected around 5psi and has a very small nozzle size. About 8 microns from memory so its a real fine mist hitting the incoming air.
If it runs out no worries.

 

[cisco]

Just bought three 2.5" diameter 3" long silicon hose lengths from some guy on ebay brand new. $14 each. Cheaper than I've seen them anywhere. Its expensive stuff even if you get it cheap. That's all I'll need. Intercooler on the way, and we'll be back in business soon.

Have already bought the caustic soda ready to dip the exhaust manifold in once its made to remove any small leftover pieces of metal etc. Nothing like a good bath in a bucket of caustic soda!

[Also just got some new black MTEC titanium wipers. Same as my old wipers, but they were silver and made the car stand out too much. Black is awesome. They are so lightweight and awesome stylish looking, but the only thing you will see is the small MTEC Japan logo now. Black is the go!]

Seriously wanting to get some 14" pulsar steelies again soon and slam on some sleeper hubcaps. The ultimate surprise insult for an SS ute or 285kw clubsport.

 

[CMF_Tony]

Sounds great Cisco, The monster will be back in no time eh.
So does that mean you want to sell your wheels? Frankly i'm sick of looking at wheels and have not had much help with suppliers.

Maybe you can make/ or have some made up ( intercoolers/piping and turbo manifolds) to sell to your fellow Micra crowd.

And they will be tested and proven, They could be on the home page next to your indicaters. ha ha

Just an idea..

 

[CMF_Sean]

Thats not a bad idea Cisco...

Make up a manifold & dump combo to be sold on the site. That way they'd only need from the dump back.

Damn wish I'd have had that when I did mine

Sean

 

[cisco]

I got my silicone hoses today.

They look great.

Almost there..

Hey Sean: I rang up Roadway today. Spoke to Glen. He's going to do the rest. He said they can make the manifold, modify the dump, get decent mandrel bent alloy intercooler piping, and weld a bracket I need onto the intercooler to mount it etc.

He was really good, unlike my last experience with another place. I told him I wanted control over the design, i.e. I've been reading up and have some designs in mind that I definately want to go for. He was great about it: said to just bring in some pics and they'll work off the pictures. That's awesome. How it should be.

So while the car is there, I'm asking them to try to make it quieter (new muffler or something), and to fix a rattle at the back of the car somewhere, and also to replace a very rusty section of pipe in the main exhaust (its the only section that isn't stainless, and it looks like its copped a beating).

So intercooler shows up here in a couple of days, then tow the car straight into the exhaust shop, and we should be back in business definately before christmas, just subject to fitting in a dyno tune.

Now, I need to go and install the new brake lines so I have some brakes..!

 

[cisco]

Also: I know I said I was going to make the manifold myself etc.. But the price was too good, so I can't be bothered and don't think I have the time. I've already got the flanges, and he said obviously that the manifold will be cheaper because I'm donating them, so they'll use them.

 

[CMF_Sean]

Awesome dude! Yeah I still talk to those guys as well.. Should come in and show them Mighty while I'm at it...

Awesome to hear mate!

Sean

 

[CMF_nz_aj]

Ice Water / Air is how 10s N14 runs, ~300kW at front wheels.
Charge temperature doesn't rise above 4 deg C.
Two R32 GTST intercoolers in parallel, immersed in icewater tank located above gearbox.
~1psi drop across intercooler when runing ~18psi boost.
Short path length & volume. Turbo is mounted to the left & in front of dizzy. The outlet basically goes straight into the intercooler, which then runs straight into the plenum.
One silicon connector between turbo & intercooler. Standard black connector between intercooler & plenum.

This sort of setup would fit equally well into the K11.

 

[CMF_Sean]

AJ's right,

My mechanic wanted to do something very similar to this but in the end we decided it was too much stuffing around in the long term.

C'mon cisco! Do it! Even less traction!

Sean

 

[cisco]

I won't quite get to an ice box setup, but my new piping will be very direct. Stage I is with a cheap generic intercooler and means 1 more pipe bend, but its the only 90deg bend in the whole system and is very direct.

I drew the options up on some paper and worked out that even if I built my ideal custom intercooler, that the air still has to change directions once by 90degress anyway. But this way instead, I get a generic cooler and the bend is in the pipe, then after that the air hits the cooler straight on.. So kind of the same, but different.

The cooler will be in a very good front on position in terms of oncoming air, and I have tried to minimise the overlap with the radiator aswell. Do not want the radiator receiving warmed up air from being stuck behind the cooler.

 

[cisco]

Allright new cooler is here.

Also picked up the turbo oil drain fitting today.

Got everything I need now.

Just need to install the non-ABS brakes lines and master cyl, and strip and paint black the rear brakes. Then once the brakes all work, the car gets towed off to get the manifold, dump and cooler piping in place. Not long now..

Cooler looks really nice.