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Looking for a radio code for your K12? Go to the official thread
Consult cable
- Thread starter madmezza
- Start date
Napster
And the Wide Green Bug
"Micra pete" was telling me this so hope this helps, but ive asked for more info 
he said:
"i just stream it over consult
cables are available over the net, i can recommend the plms development cables as i know the guys that make them
mention pete rushton if you order"???
he said:
"i just stream it over consult
cables are available over the net, i can recommend the plms development cables as i know the guys that make them
mention pete rushton if you order"???
Fordy
Ex. Club Member
i know of 2 good ones to use which are
grey nissan connector (pre facelift k11s and a few facelift)
http://www.blazt.biz/
obd 2 (k12)
http://www.scantool.net/
edit: i was having a dumb moment, thanks ed for pointing that out
grey nissan connector (pre facelift k11s and a few facelift)
http://www.blazt.biz/
obd 2 (k12)
http://www.scantool.net/
edit: i was having a dumb moment, thanks ed for pointing that out
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Cheers for the link for the connector - I was going to build a new cable onto the old one with a more standard connector (d-type or something).
...
Actually, I've just had a look and they're $18 plus postage - I think I still will add a new cable on!!!
The problem with all these companies is that they charge at least £60 for the cable. The parts cost less than £5!
I want a PDA version to give me at least RPM and fuel level so I can dynamically analyse fuel consumption at different speeds etc to increase efficiency. But that's just a start....!
(I'm a professional software engineer with a degree in Electronic Engineering so this is not a complex project for me).
I'll let you know how successful I am, and if it works out I'll probably make a PCB and do build for people if they want it...
Rich
...
Actually, I've just had a look and they're $18 plus postage - I think I still will add a new cable on!!!
The problem with all these companies is that they charge at least £60 for the cable. The parts cost less than £5!
I want a PDA version to give me at least RPM and fuel level so I can dynamically analyse fuel consumption at different speeds etc to increase efficiency. But that's just a start....!
(I'm a professional software engineer with a degree in Electronic Engineering so this is not a complex project for me).
I'll let you know how successful I am, and if it works out I'll probably make a PCB and do build for people if they want it...
Rich
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
as long as you dont charge people for it
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
no he cant, not if he uses the plms schematic, it must be non-profit only, i get on well with Pete of plms.
However in regard to consult, i would say im pretty good, and i can help you in regard to software and commands, and what does what
However in regard to consult, i would say im pretty good, and i can help you in regard to software and commands, and what does what
Its quite simple to design your own consult interface. The max 232 level shifter IC is used in pretty much every RS232 interface. The 4060 is simply a clock ripple counter (not the greatest clock design due to propagation delays), again this can be done many ways etc. Also non profit does not mean sell for free!
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
no true ed, im just saying i dont want people ripping plms off
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
My thoughts about it were something like this:
(a) the circuits available on the web have restriction such that you can't make money out of the end product. Having said that, I think there are a couple of flaws with the circuits so I was going to design something else anyway...
(b) I can't do it completely for free - I'd obviously charge for parts, postage and a bit of time to put them together. However, I'm not intending to do loads of support for this (I just haven't got the time) so I couldn't charge a lot.
I haven't done anything yet - I don't even know if I will as I'm pretty busy at the moment - but if I do then I expect to be able to supply a box with some wires out of one end (which you figure out how to connect to the Consult connector) and a 9-pin D type out of the other end so you can connect it to a PC for something like £30.
I think that compares pretty favourably to £265 for the ConZult! (ok, so that comes with software, but I'll write something that goes with this - I'll do it as freeware again so I don't have to support it particularly well....)
Give me a week or so and I'll let you know how (if) I get on with it... :grinning:
Rich
(a) the circuits available on the web have restriction such that you can't make money out of the end product. Having said that, I think there are a couple of flaws with the circuits so I was going to design something else anyway...
(b) I can't do it completely for free - I'd obviously charge for parts, postage and a bit of time to put them together. However, I'm not intending to do loads of support for this (I just haven't got the time) so I couldn't charge a lot.
I haven't done anything yet - I don't even know if I will as I'm pretty busy at the moment - but if I do then I expect to be able to supply a box with some wires out of one end (which you figure out how to connect to the Consult connector) and a 9-pin D type out of the other end so you can connect it to a PC for something like £30.
I think that compares pretty favourably to £265 for the ConZult! (ok, so that comes with software, but I'll write something that goes with this - I'll do it as freeware again so I don't have to support it particularly well....)
Give me a week or so and I'll let you know how (if) I get on with it... :grinning:
Rich
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Right, knocked up a quick and very simple design (using MAX232A, EXO-3 as clock generator and one transistor to level shift for tx to the car).
And it works! I've tested with the Conzult free software and things work OK, but my intention with this was to write some software for an old WinCE2.11 palmtop that I've got and have it permenantly installed in the car.
I shall start writing some code tonight - when I've got something simple up and running I'll stick it on the web somewhere. There'll be no official support for any of this, so I won't be charging for any of it. It's primarily for me - but if it's useful to anyone else then you're welcome to it (that EXCLUDES source code, at least for now!)
And it works! I've tested with the Conzult free software and things work OK, but my intention with this was to write some software for an old WinCE2.11 palmtop that I've got and have it permenantly installed in the car.
I shall start writing some code tonight - when I've got something simple up and running I'll stick it on the web somewhere. There'll be no official support for any of this, so I won't be charging for any of it. It's primarily for me - but if it's useful to anyone else then you're welcome to it (that EXCLUDES source code, at least for now!)
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
excellent work
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
Same here, want to build one to see how the datascan software works
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
What do you need to know about the datascan software, i can help you with pretty much anything to do with consult
Napster
And the Wide Green Bug
im alittle confused as to what ur actually going to achieve cause i have no idea what this is on about. you say about "clocks, software, linking to car", but what will this actually do?
once linked between laptop and car it will show something, but what?
cheers
napster
once linked between laptop and car it will show something, but what?
cheers
napster
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
Have a read here first http://www.blazt.biz/
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
How can I get hold of the circuit board on PLMS?
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
you'd have to make it, but if you make them using that schematic, you can't sell them.
i'd just buy one from them, much easier
i'd just buy one from them, much easier
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
Will probably buy in the end but fancy learning more electronics espeically as most people I support (as my job) do electonics repair, some guy just walked in, saw the diagram and said that looks easy enough, gave me a 20min explanation on it, learnt enough already! Plus I can "accquire" the parts through work and have support for building it.
Now I just need to comile a list of all the parts needed, anyone got one already
Now I just need to comile a list of all the parts needed, anyone got one already
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Look, just to clear things up. I'm NOT INTERESTED IN MAKING ANY PROFIT AT ALL FROM WHAT I'M DOING HERE! I just want to get it up and running for myself, and if I can help anyone else out there then cool. Right, rant over with!
The circuit can be split into 3 parts: power supply, clock generator and level converter.
The power supply is required as the chips on the board run off 5V, so using a 5V regulator (7805) you can stick 12V or so in and get 5V out to power the chips. There are some capacitors around to smooth out ripples on the supply.
The clock generator is required as the ECU doesn't contain it's own baud rate generator. Older designs use a fast clock - 16x typically. So, to communicate at 9.6kbaud, you stick a clock in at 153.6kHz. A word about this - the clock doesn't need to be synchronised to the data, so any propagation delays are totally irrelevant.
Cheapest way of generating an accurate, stable clock is to use a timing crystal. These come in lots of speeds but they're all (generally) >1MHz. The PLMS circuit uses a 4060, which is a ripple counter - you stick a signal of frequency f into the input, and out of a set of outputs comes the signal at 1/2f, 1/4f, 1/8f etc. If you use 4.9152MHz crystal and divide it by 32, you get 153.6kHz which is what you need.
Problem is, the crystal speeds that you need can be a little difficult to get hold of (well, Maplins were out of everything and I even developed some PIC code on a 12F675 to divide by any integer value so I could use other crystals!), so I opted for a EXO-3 chip which has an oscillator and divider. If you get a 19.6688MHz (or something like that), you can get 153.6kHz out. These are a bit more expensive (£4 or so), but what the heck...!
And the level converter is because RS232 is specced as a bipolar signal at some vaguely high voltage (I can never remember) - i.e. the serial port data in the back of a PC expects 0's and 1's to be represented by +10V and -10V (or different voltage - I think +/-6V is the minimum). The MAX232 chip uses charge pumps to generate these.
There's one other thing to do - use a transistor to switch the 12V supply to transmit data to the car. The output of the MAX232 is 0V/5V (the TTL side, i.e. the other side from the PC). But the car needs 12V or so sent into it. So, using a transistor you can switch the 12V from the car back into it's input.
I'll scribble down a circuit and post it somewhere for people here. I ought to mention that I'm a bit busy at the moment so things might take a bit of time...
Oh, and last thing - I got some code working tonight that does a proper initialisation and get's the RPM from the car. I'm just downloading the PocketPC SDK so I can transfer it over to my palmtop.
And finally - doesn't look like you can get the fuel gague level from the ECU in a K11...
The circuit can be split into 3 parts: power supply, clock generator and level converter.
The power supply is required as the chips on the board run off 5V, so using a 5V regulator (7805) you can stick 12V or so in and get 5V out to power the chips. There are some capacitors around to smooth out ripples on the supply.
The clock generator is required as the ECU doesn't contain it's own baud rate generator. Older designs use a fast clock - 16x typically. So, to communicate at 9.6kbaud, you stick a clock in at 153.6kHz. A word about this - the clock doesn't need to be synchronised to the data, so any propagation delays are totally irrelevant.
Cheapest way of generating an accurate, stable clock is to use a timing crystal. These come in lots of speeds but they're all (generally) >1MHz. The PLMS circuit uses a 4060, which is a ripple counter - you stick a signal of frequency f into the input, and out of a set of outputs comes the signal at 1/2f, 1/4f, 1/8f etc. If you use 4.9152MHz crystal and divide it by 32, you get 153.6kHz which is what you need.
Problem is, the crystal speeds that you need can be a little difficult to get hold of (well, Maplins were out of everything and I even developed some PIC code on a 12F675 to divide by any integer value so I could use other crystals!), so I opted for a EXO-3 chip which has an oscillator and divider. If you get a 19.6688MHz (or something like that), you can get 153.6kHz out. These are a bit more expensive (£4 or so), but what the heck...!
And the level converter is because RS232 is specced as a bipolar signal at some vaguely high voltage (I can never remember) - i.e. the serial port data in the back of a PC expects 0's and 1's to be represented by +10V and -10V (or different voltage - I think +/-6V is the minimum). The MAX232 chip uses charge pumps to generate these.
There's one other thing to do - use a transistor to switch the 12V supply to transmit data to the car. The output of the MAX232 is 0V/5V (the TTL side, i.e. the other side from the PC). But the car needs 12V or so sent into it. So, using a transistor you can switch the 12V from the car back into it's input.
I'll scribble down a circuit and post it somewhere for people here. I ought to mention that I'm a bit busy at the moment so things might take a bit of time...
Oh, and last thing - I got some code working tonight that does a proper initialisation and get's the RPM from the car. I'm just downloading the PocketPC SDK so I can transfer it over to my palmtop.
And finally - doesn't look like you can get the fuel gague level from the ECU in a K11...
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
LOL
Thats exactly how the technician who explained it too me put it!
You wouldn't happen to have a batch of the parts needed spare and a pic of how you've wired it up?
I plan to try it on a "bread board" with non SMD parts then if get it working make a smaller version.
Again I'm not after making for profit etc just fancy working on some electronics and this seem perfect project
Thats exactly how the technician who explained it too me put it!
You wouldn't happen to have a batch of the parts needed spare and a pic of how you've wired it up?
I plan to try it on a "bread board" with non SMD parts then if get it working make a smaller version.
Again I'm not after making for profit etc just fancy working on some electronics and this seem perfect project
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
madmezza, no you can't get the fuel level
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
if you need help with the commands let me know
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Cheers pete. Think I've got it licked now, but do you have any protocol information? I've got a fair amount and things are working, but I want to make sure I catch odd situations (e.g. unsupported commands etc), and I'm not sure what the ECU will throw back at me.
I've just written a bit of code that will allow me to send any old hex values that I type to the car, and look at the response, so I'll do a bit of playing with that and see what I can sort out.
Also, what's HICAS? There are a few different initialisation (e.g. FF FF FE for generic ECU commands, and FF FF xx for other bits) - what exactly are the other things (one give a/c information, one give steering etc, and there's info about hydraulic pressure etc (which I guess is what the H in HYCAS stands for?)??
Cheers
Rich
I've just written a bit of code that will allow me to send any old hex values that I type to the car, and look at the response, so I'll do a bit of playing with that and see what I can sort out.
Also, what's HICAS? There are a few different initialisation (e.g. FF FF FE for generic ECU commands, and FF FF xx for other bits) - what exactly are the other things (one give a/c information, one give steering etc, and there's info about hydraulic pressure etc (which I guess is what the H in HYCAS stands for?)??
Cheers
Rich
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
ecu initialisation is FF FF EF not FE, You should be getting a 10 back, to get your registers streaming you use (0x5a)<parameter>(0xf0) for a single byte stream, for a multi-byte use (0x5a)<parameter>(0x5a)<next parameter>(0x5a)<next>(0xf0) F0 being your stop byte.
some useful registers you'll need are
Tachometer MSB- 0x00
Tachometer LSB-0x01
MAF voltage MSB-0x04
MAF voltage LSB-0x05
Vehicle speed 0x0b
some useful registers you'll need are
Tachometer MSB- 0x00
Tachometer LSB-0x01
MAF voltage MSB-0x04
MAF voltage LSB-0x05
Vehicle speed 0x0b
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Cheers for the HICAS info - a mate of mine used to have a 300ZX and told me about the rear steering, but I didn't know that was the HICAS thing.
Pete - thanks for the info. It's pretty much what I've got from the PLMS website (there's a protocol doc and a list of registers that you can query).
However, a bit of investigation yesterday showed up a few things:
If the engine's just been switched on, then each FF during the init returns nothing. If we're trying to re-initialise then each FF returns a 00 (i.e. ~FF).
Every command/parameter byte returns a byte immediately, so although the documentation says something like:
send 5A 00 5A 01 F0 and you get A5 00 A5 01 FF 02 ....
what you actually do is this:
Send 5A, get A5
Send 00, get 00
Send 5A, get A5
Send 01, get 01
Send F0
Handle streamed data
ConZult doesn't do this - it handles things in blocks (I've used a serial port monitor app to have a look at what it does).
Also, FE seems to indicate an error in lots of cases.
I'm writing a set of generic classes (C++) to communicate with the car and I want them to be absolutely robust so I need to handle all error cases etc.
I'll perfect the PC version, then transfer over to the palmtop.
My first thing to do that's useful (hopefully tomorrow) is log the speed and RPM data for my trip to work (75 miles), so I can see what my CVT gearbox is up to - this will allow me to detect wear in the future...
Rich
Pete - thanks for the info. It's pretty much what I've got from the PLMS website (there's a protocol doc and a list of registers that you can query).
However, a bit of investigation yesterday showed up a few things:
If the engine's just been switched on, then each FF during the init returns nothing. If we're trying to re-initialise then each FF returns a 00 (i.e. ~FF).
Every command/parameter byte returns a byte immediately, so although the documentation says something like:
send 5A 00 5A 01 F0 and you get A5 00 A5 01 FF 02 ....
what you actually do is this:
Send 5A, get A5
Send 00, get 00
Send 5A, get A5
Send 01, get 01
Send F0
Handle streamed data
ConZult doesn't do this - it handles things in blocks (I've used a serial port monitor app to have a look at what it does).
Also, FE seems to indicate an error in lots of cases.
I'm writing a set of generic classes (C++) to communicate with the car and I want them to be absolutely robust so I need to handle all error cases etc.
I'll perfect the PC version, then transfer over to the palmtop.
My first thing to do that's useful (hopefully tomorrow) is log the speed and RPM data for my trip to work (75 miles), so I can see what my CVT gearbox is up to - this will allow me to detect wear in the future...
Rich
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Just thought I'd share with you the progress in my ECU monitor application.
I got things to work on the PC, and had a play around with an old WinCE2.11 pocket PC that I have. In the end, I thought it would be easier to step through my iPaq (which is Windows Mobile 2003 SE), so I've developed a C++ application that builds on both the PC (for testing) and the PocketPC.
I've also written an ECU emulator which acts like the car, so I don't have to keep going and plugging myself in (which was a bit annoying at the weekend when I was doing early development).
Attached is a screenshot of things so far - I've only just started work on the needle gauge controls so they look a bit bare, but I have an idea for making them pretty kewl...
I'll let you know as things progress further...
(I've also bought DataScan so I could play a bit on the PC. It'll do as a reference app for my development to make sure I don't miss anything out!).
I got things to work on the PC, and had a play around with an old WinCE2.11 pocket PC that I have. In the end, I thought it would be easier to step through my iPaq (which is Windows Mobile 2003 SE), so I've developed a C++ application that builds on both the PC (for testing) and the PocketPC.
I've also written an ECU emulator which acts like the car, so I don't have to keep going and plugging myself in (which was a bit annoying at the weekend when I was doing early development).
Attached is a screenshot of things so far - I've only just started work on the needle gauge controls so they look a bit bare, but I have an idea for making them pretty kewl...
I'll let you know as things progress further...
(I've also bought DataScan so I could play a bit on the PC. It'll do as a reference app for my development to make sure I don't miss anything out!).
Attachments
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
good work mate, i'll post something up im working on soon
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
Amazing!!
Good work
Good work
goldstar0011
Ex. Club Member
also, i may just be being blind but on the PLMS site where is cost for just the cable?
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
That's a fairly simple circuit - it's quite similar to mine. However, I've had some noise issues on the input of mine (from the car to the PC), so I want to do a bit of work getting that sorted before I post any more info about the hardware.
Any ideas of what would be good in this app wouldn't go amiss - let me know if you think there's something I should add (or just something you can't get anywhere else in these type of apps).
I'll try and develop some more tomorrow - I drove home from work tonight with a Rev Counter! it was great. And a digital speedo! I ended up putting the pocket pc in front of the old PC (and turning the screen on it's side which you can do with window mobile 2003 SE) - it was very kewl so I'm going to lay it out sideways tomorrow...
Any ideas of what would be good in this app wouldn't go amiss - let me know if you think there's something I should add (or just something you can't get anywhere else in these type of apps).
I'll try and develop some more tomorrow - I drove home from work tonight with a Rev Counter! it was great. And a digital speedo! I ended up putting the pocket pc in front of the old PC (and turning the screen on it's side which you can do with window mobile 2003 SE) - it was very kewl so I'm going to lay it out sideways tomorrow...
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Right. Much as I love PocketPC, the screen size is just TOOOOO small to have anything useful on for this purpose.
So I've ordered myself a 7" touch-screen LCD panel and I'll have engine management stuff on it soon....! As well as GPS sat-nav, night-vision display, MP3s, DVD's etc etc etc
Will share my development with it once I get the monitor - first attempt will be laptop driving the monitor displaying Consult information.
So I've ordered myself a 7" touch-screen LCD panel and I'll have engine management stuff on it soon....! As well as GPS sat-nav, night-vision display, MP3s, DVD's etc etc etc
Will share my development with it once I get the monitor - first attempt will be laptop driving the monitor displaying Consult information.
madmezza said:
I think there's nothing wrong with the screen size, after all it is bigger than the hand commander on a PowerFC and that's perfect. What you don't need is a huge screen crammed with all sorts of info to distract you. A couple of easily switchable vital signs is enough IMHO.
I don't mean it's just as good as a 7" screen but I wouldn't discount it as being too small.
OP
OP
madmezza
Ex. Club Member
Yeah, ok. Fair point. I was getting RPM and speed at quite a sensible size, and could add temperature etc to get an (almost) replacement dashboard display (only missing fuel gauge). And that was quite good.
I was going to add a set of icons to show things like PAS activity, fan speed etc. But I suppose I was trying to put too much on and it was getting difficult to read (and not entirely useful!).
Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting the 7" screen and seeing what I can do!
rlees85 - I did an electronic engineering degree and focussed on the software side of things, so I kind of got both. My job is software at the moment, but I do a fair bit of h/w dev at the place that I work. When I was at uni, I wished I had more money to do these sorts of projects. Now I've got the money (I left uni 8 years ago), I have 2 kids and don't really have the time to do it!!! Ironic really!
I was going to add a set of icons to show things like PAS activity, fan speed etc. But I suppose I was trying to put too much on and it was getting difficult to read (and not entirely useful!).
Having said that, I'm looking forward to getting the 7" screen and seeing what I can do!
rlees85 - I did an electronic engineering degree and focussed on the software side of things, so I kind of got both. My job is software at the moment, but I do a fair bit of h/w dev at the place that I work. When I was at uni, I wished I had more money to do these sorts of projects. Now I've got the money (I left uni 8 years ago), I have 2 kids and don't really have the time to do it!!! Ironic really!
F
furmirek
Guest
Is there any hope that my Micra K12 has ODB-2 and will give info to Palm via serial cable ? I am trying to translate/improve odbgauge (thanks for source code) for Palm and looking for any advice. A Micra simulator sounds very interesting... is it working on the same machine or via cable ?
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
madmezza - on the later micra's you can monitor fuel level, i was messing the other night, early ones you can't though
micra_pete
Ex. Club Member
im not sure, what register are you monitoring?
