Back From Winton. First PB set.

[CMF_flameboy]

Winton Trackday by Tampered Motorsports - 6 / 11 / 2007
first PB set on the Micra: 1:54.4650

thx to charlie Kang for the pics:

many ppl asked why i didnt bring the 350z, and why would i bother wasting my time with micra... well my answer is:

1. i would bring and drive any car to the track anyway...
2. at this stage i'm not going any faster with the 350z after 4 attempts resulting in 1:41s. i promised myself to try a different change then back to the zed again. sometime you didnt realised that you have overlooked few simple things just because you have been taking it for granted...

well this is my first time in the micra. spec on the day was DIY PVC intake kit , nissan pulsar front brake + RDA slotted, im using low treaded bridgestone that i got free from dan c2888... its 185/60/14.... thx dan... they are still very good compared to the bald one i has previously...

on the first session of the day i was lucky to be able to clocked PB of 1:54.4650... after that, i never get close to 1:54 anymore due to no more tread on the tyres (was only 1:55-1:56 with few slower run with passenger)

at first, its abit hard driving the micra, coming from the 350z... i used to have all this torque and any mistake i made wont be significance as i can just plant the accelerator and it will look like nothing has ever happened...

with the micra, i have to try so hard to keep the momentum up. the slightest mistake i made will cost me few sec and i will never see those sec again coz i just dont have the power to make up for it. this reminds me alot how important it is to shift the weight properly and keeping the momentum around the corner... get all the braking done before the corner, and only brake when you really need to, no more messing around, accelerate all the way whenever you had a chance....

i even got few oversteer that i would never be able to catch if i havent driven rwd before... and lift off on micra is a no no. its eaither im on the brake, or on the accelerator.... never in between....

at the end of the day, i was surprised that the micra has reminded me few things about driving that i have forgotten since i started driving the 350z. it is a great little car with a great solid built. perfect gear ratio for its power made the car feel more sophisticated and not slow at all... i must say i love the micra and will definitely keeping it for the long term along with the 350z....

Overall results on the day: http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?06/11/2007.WIN.P1

Individual results: http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?06/11/2007.WIN.P1.I


more photos:

 

[CMF_tris]

that looks sick flameboy!! your not running stock shocks and springs are you?? coilovers?? if so what type

i wana try a track day in sydney! but i think i need a cams lisence.....

 

[CMF_flameboy]

im running stock suspension and spring!

micra handles very well even with stock suspension and spring... im sure i can do 1min50s flat if i have better suspension and tyres...

we will see next time...

 

[CMF_lam.666]

gw flameboy

being the smallest there u did a good job, bigger cars did more poo than you

tris, best and cheapest place to get on the track, would be at wakefield cost approx $150, no CAMS licence required, but its about 1.5 hours from syd

 

[CMF_micra-man]

Cheap & Fun Track days.

http://www.circuitclub.com.au/

They also occasionally go to Eastern Creek.

Call or email Narada for details he runs them.

 

[CMF_deNs]

tris WROTE:

"your not running stock shocks and springs are you?? coilovers?? if so what type

You serious? Look how much bodyroll the car has there Also if you feel like it you could probably make the trip down to winton if you really wanted, but you're probably much better off going to wakefield or something.

I'll take you on next time silas! Didn't realise you had a bit of an off there after the sweeper Must've been fun! I like the copy and paste from the other forum.. hehe.

---dens

 

[smidge]

are the shocks a bit tired? would new ones be worth the effort? guess you might as well lower it too if its hitting the track huh!

 

[CMF_evade]

good to see you hitting the track! good work

 

[CMF_tris]

yeh thanks might try wakefield!! try out my new shocks n springs!!

 

[CMF_Yom]

Awesome! Yes the micra's handling is still very sound on standard springs and suspension. It is definately helped by the fact that their chassis and suspension engineering is sound - easily still better than alot of modern small cars (ignoring the saftey aspect )

I would have loved to hit the track with mine but it was a bit too nice to risk stacking I think... Might buy myself a cheap LX sometime in the future.

 

[CMF_deNs]

This is what it looks like when taking the same corner, but with koni yellows, whiteline springs and all the rest of the whiteline gear:

---dens

 

[CMF_flameboy]

micra-man WROTE:

"Cheap & Fun Track days.

<a href="http://www.circuitclub.com.au/" title="http://www.circuitclub.com.au/" target="_blank">http://www.circuitclub.com.au/</a>

They also occasionally go to Eastern Creek.

Call or email Narada for details he runs them.

yeah... i would definitely recommend circuit club events...

i went to wakefield with the Z this year and it is an AWESOME track to go...

hehehe this was from their magazine issue number 10... i was lucky to get mentioned there on the articles circuit club ppl are one of the best enthusiast bunch i've ever met! i will definitely attend their other events

 

[CMF_flameboy]

deNs WROTE:

"tris WROTE:

"your not running stock shocks and springs are you?? coilovers?? if so what type"</div>

You serious? Look how much bodyroll the car has there Also if you feel like it you could probably make the trip down to winton if you really wanted, but you're probably much better off going to wakefield or something.

I'll take you on next time silas! Didn't realise you had a bit of an off there after the sweeper Must've been fun! I like the copy and paste from the other forum.. hehe.

---dens

yeah! i asked you to come! u've seen how the micra can do in stock form at the mount dandy road last time right? it was flying!

i love your pic from winton dens, it gives me the indication of how stable the micra can be after the suspension upgrade!

lol... sorry about the copy and paste... but u know the other forum is a private forum... not everyone can see it...

about turn 4 off after sweeper... lol... u should've seen how far the micra going sideway! lol.... i lift off the throttle (bad habit from RWD) and the tail just slides out... good fun tho

 

[CMF_flameboy]

Yom WROTE:

"Awesome! Yes the micra's handling is still very sound on standard springs and suspension. It is definately helped by the fact that their chassis and suspension engineering is sound - easily still better than alot of modern small cars (ignoring the saftey aspect )

I would have loved to hit the track with mine but it was a bit too nice to risk stacking I think... Might buy myself a cheap LX sometime in the future.

the micra chasis is great mate! i just wish they made the interior bits more durable and non saggy doors

about the track... 'track is dangerous' is a common misconception mate... going on the track is much safer than hooning on the public road... they have run off and everyone is more careful in what they do on the track

and i dont think you can stack the micra if you drive within your limits its worth a try i must say...

 

[CMF_flameboy]

lam.666 WROTE:

"gw flameboy

being the smallest there u did a good job, bigger cars did more poo than you

tris, best and cheapest place to get on the track, would be at wakefield cost approx $150, no CAMS licence required, but its about 1.5 hours from syd

thx mate... the micra still can go abit faster with better driver i guess... coz i still made mistake with it... there are still room for improvement...

on the day... there was one starlet EP92 with 4AGE 20V engine conversion... it was doing freakin fast time 1:49s.... made me wonder what can micra with SR20 do on the track... lol...

 

[CMF_flameboy]

smidge WROTE:

"are the shocks a bit tired? would new ones be worth the effort? guess you might as well lower it too if its hitting the track huh!

a better shocks would definitely worth the effort smidge

i will definitely lower it one day...

its my first time driving the micra on the track... need to set a base PB first... i wont know how good the suspension upgrade and how much improvement made if i never try it with the stock form

most of the case i see on the track events: ppl got disappointed on their first time out on the track driving a car with alot of modifications just to find that their lap time are the same or sometime worst than a car with no modifications...

well, i've got the base lap time now.... next time i'll be hitting the tracks with suspension upgrade and better tyres... hope it will be sub 1:50s

 

[CMF_deNs]

flameboy WROTE:

"yeah! i asked you to come! u've seen how the micra can do in stock form at the mount dandy road last time right? it was flying!

i love your pic from winton dens, it gives me the indication of how stable the micra can be after the suspension upgrade!

lol... sorry about the copy and paste... but u know the other forum is a private forum... not everyone can see it...

about turn 4 off after sweeper... lol... u should've seen how far the micra going sideway! lol.... i lift off the throttle (bad habit from RWD) and the tail just slides out... good fun tho

Yeah I wanted to go but I couldn't afford to come

Remember SR20 is a cast iron block not a alloy block like the CG's, so you'll want to offset that with a turbo, hahaha... Darn!

I've had a couple of wierd lift-off oversteer moments at winton with some at low speed which didn't make sense to me. And I had a crapload of tread, so must've been really hot tyres as it was getting to the runs at the end of the day.

I'll be up there for the 16th (can't make it for the drift day on the saturday) for the fun day. By the afternoon there really aren't as many cars out there, but more than you're used to probably.

Might get someone to time me on the 16th

---dens

 

[CMF_Nissanmania]

Awesome effort flameboy. Your times are impressive with the tools you had. Not too far off from a Golf GTI - he'd be a little annoyed! Always good to see someone lifting the motorsport credentials of the Micra. It's the modern Mini afterall.

Suspension improvements would help alot. That amount of body roll will hamper your progress and lead to a bit of oversteer on a hot corner exit due to overloading the outside rear tyre as well as understeer when going hot into a corner. I've been there! Some sticky tyres will accentuate this even more. Fix the tyres, springs and swaybars and it will carry alot more corner speed.

(Dens - the SR20 is an all alloy motor. It's the RB that's cast iron)

 

[CMF_Yom]

Yeh its the GA and QG in the pulsars which has the cast iron block and alloy head.

 

[CMF_deNs]

Nissanmania WROTE:

"(Dens - the SR20 is an all alloy motor. It's the RB that's cast iron)"

Ohshi- my mistake Been working on RB's all weekend haha.. Yes, so uh, off to putting an SR20 in silas!

Rear swaybar would help the roll quite a bit if you're not looking at replacing springs and shocks right now.

---dens

 

[CMF_Yom]

Front swaybar will eliminate a huge amount of bodyroll. It'll be more likely to plough understeer though.

And I might note the only people who've ever disagreed with me on this are those who funnily enough haven't tried it!

 

[CMF_flameboy]

deNs WROTE:

"flameboy WROTE:

"yeah! i asked you to come! u've seen how the micra can do in stock form at the mount dandy road last time right? it was flying!

i love your pic from winton dens, it gives me the indication of how stable the micra can be after the suspension upgrade!

lol... sorry about the copy and paste... but u know the other forum is a private forum... not everyone can see it...

about turn 4 off after sweeper... lol... u should've seen how far the micra going sideway! lol.... i lift off the throttle (bad habit from RWD) and the tail just slides out... good fun tho "</div>

Yeah I wanted to go but I couldn't afford to come

Remember SR20 is a cast iron block not a alloy block like the CG's, so you'll want to offset that with a turbo, hahaha... Darn!

I've had a couple of wierd lift-off oversteer moments at winton with some at low speed which didn't make sense to me. And I had a crapload of tread, so must've been really hot tyres as it was getting to the runs at the end of the day.

I'll be up there for the 16th (can't make it for the drift day on the saturday) for the fun day. By the afternoon there really aren't as many cars out there, but more than you're used to probably.

Might get someone to time me on the 16th

---dens

? i am pretty sure that SR20 is all alloy mate... i want SR16VE but few of that engine that my cousin managed to find in US will ended costing twice more exp compared to sourcing SR20DE locally...

16th of december? i will be overseas mate.... otherwise i will definitely come and watch...

i have a infra red lap timer + beacon, if you need to time it.... i have used this along with the winton AMB transmitter and they are accurate up to the 0.XXXX seconds.

let me know

 

[CMF_flameboy]

Nissanmania WROTE:

"Awesome effort flameboy. Your times are impressive with the tools you had. Not too far off from a Golf GTI - he'd be a little annoyed! Always good to see someone lifting the motorsport credentials of the Micra. It's the modern Mini afterall.

Suspension improvements would help alot. That amount of body roll will hamper your progress and lead to a bit of oversteer on a hot corner exit due to overloading the outside rear tyre as well as understeer when going hot into a corner. I've been there! Some sticky tyres will accentuate this even more. Fix the tyres, springs and swaybars and it will carry alot more corner speed.

(Dens - the SR20 is an all alloy motor. It's the RB that's cast iron)

mate! nothing compared to what you did! i watch you videos... lol... and i wish i have the budget to rebuild the CG13DE to your level... that would be awesome!

thx for the tips... i will definitely consult with you further, closer to getting the upgrades...

about the tyres, what tyres do you recommend if i want get the size close to 185/60/14?

i tested my speedo, with this tyres size.... it was spot on... 100kmh speed on the speed detector when its showing 100kmh on the speedo...

 

[CMF_flameboy]

Yom WROTE:

"Front swaybar will eliminate a huge amount of bodyroll. It'll be more likely to plough understeer though.

And I might note the only people who've ever disagreed with me on this are those who funnily enough haven't tried it!

yeah, i agree with that too... if i upgrade the front one, i will upgrade the rear one too... coz i would like to keep it balanced... not too many under (front) or over (rear)...

thx mate...

 

[CMF_Yom]

Front + rear at the same time is definately the way to go.

Key is balance.

 

[CMF_flameboy]

EXE TRACKDAY 10th March 2008 - Winton raceway

ok... back from hot day at winton. i didnt really have time to write it up since i've been abit busy preparing for the test that im gonna have tomorrow. so here we go...

this is my first time going to the track with street tyres on the 350Z. why? coz my semis all bald lol... also the 350Z is back to stock coz i'm selling it, now with full interior trim. except for the type NR brake pad (which are around the same rating with stock brembo pads but somehow cheaper )

my street tyres PB was in the morning session: 1:45.9200 (with a passenger) and the rest of the day i couldnt even get closer to that.

my semis PB was: 1:41.0680 with semis, weight reduction (37kg off), lighter wheels, catback, pod filter, spring and front camber arm. thats more than 4 sec differences T_T... why? i think i know why...

driving on the track with stock 350z with street tyres are hard for me coz im used to the amount of grip i have from the semis. i think the semis have covered up most of the lack of my driving skills and smoothness... my lap time on the day wtih street tyres was not consistent at all compared to using semis.

my Winton 3KM lap time record
--------------------------------------

• 11/12/2006: 1:43.9470 sec (235/45/17 RE55s, APS catback, race pipe, K&N filter, HC+ pads, 37.2kg weight saving, 164kw atw) - first time ever @ winton
  
• 26/01/2007: 1:42.2420 sec (same mods as above, 164kw atw)
  
• 11/03/2007: 1:41.3410 sec (same mods as above, 164kw atw)
  
• 16/04/2007: 1:41.4970 sec (front tyres finished, so i changed to a 2nd hand 225 dunlop semis, i also added RSR spring, 164kw atw)
  
• 01/07/2007: 1:41.0680 sec (bought 2nd hand from takahasi: 245/40/18 RE55s semis**, 164kw atw) **CURRENT PB with semi slick**
  
• 30/10/2007: 1:41.2250 sec (installed Cusco Front Camber arm**, put 'X' pipe on the APS catback, 160kw atw*)
  
• 10/03/2008: 1:45.9200 sec (stock, full interior trim, street tyres) **CURRENT PB with street tyres**
  

now the boring bits... this is what i think:

STREET TYRES
with the street tyres, i found it that i cannot be careless, have to be extra smooth. some corners, had to take it on 2nd gear when im using street tyres (instead of 3rd gear when im using semis). this is due to if i enter too fast like i enter on semis, i will understeer on street tyres, but then when i enter slower, the rpm on the corner entry was abit too low so i had to use lower gears... hope that make sense...

plenty of sideways which is very fun but slower i think i need one more track day on street tyres to be able to drive more consistently

a stock 2003 350z did 1:43s at winton with a pro driver on the magazine review, so my bench mark is to get within 2 sec off his time... CONSISTENTLY... so i think i stil have alot of room for improvement since my laptime with street tyres was not inconsistent...

the whole day i had passenger except for the end of the day which i did slower anyway. so i think passenger dont make alot of differences on a big engines. not at much as a smaller engines i guess...

SEMISLICK
with semis i can be more aggressive, enter the corner more agressively although it doesnt have as much warning as the street tyres... however, i should've gone the other way, learnt to race with street tyres first and then move up to semis. maybe thats why i was stuck on 1:41s for so long. but now i realise i abuse and rely on the grip so much without paying more attention to how to drive better and smoother.


conclusion:
at the end of the day, i'm pretty happy with it coz its always fun to go out there and drive! i'm also thankful that i found so many driving skill defects that i had, that i would never seen if i stayed driving on the semis at the track.

hopefully after i maximise and improve my driving on street then i would be faster on semis. *finger crossed*

here is my individual lap times for the day

Practice Session
1:46.7300
1:46.0400
1:47.7800
1:45.9200
1:48.4800
comment: with passenger, lap 1 - 3 i was driving the same way i drive with my semis. lap 4 i tried using 2nd gear on turn 4,5, and 6. last lap i got sideway on turn 4-5-6 >_< 2nd gear need gentle foot

session01
1:47.7600
1:46.3900
1:47.4400
1:47.1900
1:50.5000
1:58.0900
comment: i put the pressure down from 40psi hot to 32psi hot. still with passenger, lap 1-4 i use 3rd gear, lap 5 was my drift lap last lap was my cool down lap.

session02
1:47.0900
1:47.2400
1:48.3100
1:50.9500
1:51.2000
1:48.2600
comment: with passenger, put the pressure up to 36psi hot. still wasnt good.

session03
1:48.2700
1:47.7700
1:48.6800
comment: no passenger, put the pressure up back to 40psi, but then it was too hot and the tyres got very slippery

session04
1:49.3600
1:49.4000
1:48.3000
2:29.4600
comment: drift session with josh in the car . i spun out on the last lap oops

session05
1:49.0800
1:48.9600
1:48.0800
1:50.1100
comment: last session, no passenger, most ppl have gone home by then, only me and dan left on the track... i gave up after 4 laps coz its just too bloody hot...

Result of the day can be found here:
MORNING PRACTICE SESSION: http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?10/03/2008.WIN.P1

Afternoon SESSION: http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results.cgi?10/03/2008.WIN.P2


PHOTOS - Thx to Jason Ho for these great photos

 

[CMF_flameboy]

next track day, i will be bringing the micra again... hope with mods this time...

my micra first time PB was 1:54s with bald street tyres and 46kw atw. will aim for 1:50 - 1:51 on my second time there with a decent street tyres, weight reduction and abit of power mods.

 

[CMF_egSi]

awesome work! cool pics, thanks for sharing! )

 

[CMF_a888wei]

dude! thats awesome! so u have zed too?