773 cams in a original CG13DE

[Chrismo]

I have the 773 cams inside my CG13DE engine. The engine is nog running ok. Not always, but when it does it has now power at all and de a/f tells it's running at 18:1, very lean!

The things I did:

-new throttlebody/maf
-new ignitionunit including all cables and sparkplugs
-fuel-pressure checked (2.8 bar)
-checked for vacuum-leaks by spraying some brake cleaner around the intakemanifold
-checked the altenator
-changed the oem lambda sensor
-changed the original fuel pressure regulator


I don't know what to do next!! The car runs great at one moment, and at another moment it stalls like hell! Realy ####ty problem!

A guy told me he had got the experience with bigger cams cousing the maf-sensor measuring wrong values because of the bigger valve-lift/duration.

I realy think that Matthew knows what he is selling and the 773 cams are running ok inside a standard CG13 engine without higher compression.



If sombody knows this problem and has the sollution I would be REALY pleased :grinning:





gr Chrismo

 

[jim_bling]

try get a vid up mate as it sounds like the same problem i had are they timed up right

 

[Chrismo]

A vid up? Sorry but I don't know what you mean.

And Yes, the cams are on time, this is 100% sure. I already posted a picture on the request of Frank, and it looks fine.

It could be these cams NEED higher compression to make performance. Perhaps I can try to only fit the 773 intake, and put the original exhaust cam back in.
Worth a try maybe?





gr Chrismo

 

[frank]

kenny (jim bling) has those cams and janspeed mani iirc chris, he could give an opinion
and i found that the inlet cam has the biggest effect personally (so reverting to the stock exhaust cam may do little )

 

[Low Rider]

Although these cams will fit and 'run' in a standard CG13 they will not make power without a remapped ecu and GA16 injectors if you have a full exhaust fitted with a good air filter.

You are correct in saying the CG13 doesn't have enough compression to make maximum power, it doesn't even have enough to make the most of the standard cams let alone performance cams.

 

[Chrismo]

Standard injectors can go to around 120 hp I've heard. So the injectors can not cause this problem. A remapped ecu without extra compression-raise will be a bet too much I think.




gr Chrismo

 

[Low Rider]

That's misinformation which was circulating the forums I'm afraid, standard injectors will make around 105bhp and that's with 98% duty cycle which is NOT safe at all. We maxed out the standard injectors on NME 254 deg cams last year and had to upgrade to GA16 injectors in order to stay below 80% duty cycle. Now we're running 773 cams and it's still ok.

If you want to stay on the standard ecu then don't expect to make good power or to be running sensible AFR's and don't be surprised if eventually something fails......it will be far from optimal.

 

[Chrismo]

I just switched the 773 exhaustcam for the original. The car idles much better now, and it even feels as there is more power.

Perhaps 773 cams won't give any gain inside a normal engine. And perhaps original cams give even more.
Soon I will also put the original intakecam in, and see what happens. Raising the compression is what I did before (CG10 pistons inside a CG13), and there also was no big gain to notice. Must say I didn't remap the ecu.

For now I first try to run with original cams.






gr Chrismo

 

[Chrismo]

If I go further with these original cams, I have a pair of 773 cams spare. Is there any change I can sell these cams?
They do need more compression to work fine I have found out.






gr Chrismo

 

[frank]

those cams are only 264 deg are,nt they chris ? ( not exactly "full race" are they), i would,nt have thought your dynamic c/r would have dropped that much fwn

 

[Low Rider]

No, the dynamic compression doesn't drop hugely but the CG13DE engines don't have particularly high dynamic compression to start with.......so it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

The 773's are 264/264 but with more lift than the NME 254/254 cams. They do give good torque in a CG13DE but you NEED to re-map the ECU and fit bigger injectors......simply dropping them in and hoping for a magical power increase is not going to happen. NME Challenge 254/254 cams are more suited to the CG13DE and give a better idle but even they still need a re-map to warrant the expense of fitting a set.

FYI, the standard ECU isn't up to the job on standard cams when it's had the usual bolt ons, such as an exhaust and air filter setup. Just stick it on a dyno and get a plot of AFR v's RPM and you'll see AFR's reaching 15.5:1 in places over the midrange..........it's far from optimised to begin with, so it's not a good base to start taking tuning further.

If you are not wanting to go any further with ECU's then I suggest you sell the 773's on and go back to standard cams, as you'll only be unhappy with what you currently have.

 

[Chrismo]

The thing you say about the a/f. I have an Innovate a/f wideband telling me the car runs between 12,5 and 13,5 FT. This all the way up to high rev's.

I have got e-manage blue installed, so it's possible to put GA16 injectors inside.

The problem with remapping is, in Holland there is nobody who can perform this job. Ed from Fusion can, but I understood he had some problems with NATS.
But even if I perform a remap, it still won't do much if the compressionrate is 9,5:1....this I get from your reaction.

In Holland there is very little knowledge about the CG13, so if there's a problem I can't go to anybody helping me out.



gr Chrismo

 

[garymitch]

to sort out your compression and make it higher. i was told to fit ga1.0 pistons. maybe you need to do that.

 

[baguete]

The thing you say about the a/f. I have an Innovate a/f wideband telling me the car runs between 12,5 and 13,5 FT. This all the way up to high rev's.

I have got e-manage blue installed, so it's possible to put GA16 injectors inside.

The problem with remapping is, in Holland there is nobody who can perform this job. Ed from Fusion can, but I understood he had some problems with NATS.
But even if I perform a remap, it still won't do much if the compressionrate is 9,5:1....this I get from your reaction.

In Holland there is very little knowledge about the CG13, so if there's a problem I can't go to anybody helping me out.



gr Chrismo

If your Micra is a Facelift1, you can install NIStune board on your ECU. I have one on my NATS ECU and dont have any issues with NATS...

 

[jim_bling]

make a video on your phone or camera of how the car runs on idle and when driving about mate