Overheating issue

Maris Lels

Maris Lels

So folks, decided create separate thread my micra overheating issue.

Would you help me troubleshoot problem.
So far discovered, two pin sensor and thermostat working.

when temperature reaches over half, small bubbles coming out in open radiator. ... and creates kind of little foam ... very little ... put on one finger.

No any strange sound... apart bit chain rattling (i think).

I have some fears that headgasket gone .... :( down:
 
dont know, will check ...

do i have to skim head ? or it shall be ok without , just put proper silicon and new headgasket ?

I have very limited time to do this.
 
just need to be clear.... , that should be normal for car overheat, if it stay on one place, no move, and rad fan not working. would somebody agree with me about this ?
 
i doubt if a car would overheat @ idle in this weather maris, but if you rev it up in neutral the fan should kick in and out eh fwn
 
ok, if fan is somehow faulty ... dont know where, so it shall overheat.... i have another ecu, shall i plug that one, and see if fan kicks in ?
 
Maris Lels said:
ok, if fan is somehow faulty ... dont know where, so it shall overheat.... i have another ecu, shall i plug that one, and see if fan kicks in ?
Click to expand...

you need to check for a feed from the ecu to the radfan relay as the gauge reaches about 3/4
did you say the fan works if you give it a live ?
 
yes, fan works , when connecting straight to batery, fuse from front side, looks fine, dont know about relay ... i have spare one, shall i swap ? also i have nissan scanning software, would be benefit to use it?
 
so , i took off relay, and connected fan dirrectly, made it work all time, car overheats anyway. white mayo oil came up on oil cap... on dipstic still no sign of mayo ....
anyway... conclusion ... headgasket gone ????
so does the head needs to be skimmed before put new geadgasket ?
 
Ah crap, mayo is not a good sign. I drove many many miles with a knackered headgasket, only got air bubbles on the expansion bottle at that time, did an engine rebuild, but didnt skimmed the head (great mistake), burnt the headgasket again, but when it started to make mayo i stopped the car and changed his engine, gives less hassle...
 
Main symptoms of the head gasket being blown (on any car) include...
Excessive white smoke
Excessive pressure build up at radiator
Emulsification of engine oil (creamy white stuff on oil cap)
Oil in radiator
Smell of burning at radiator etc.

Although each of the above symptoms can be caused by other problems.

If you run a car at idle with the radiator cap off it should heat up to just over half way on the temp gauge then the cooling fan should kick in.
If the temp gauge goes up much further or even into the red it would indicate an airlock in the system or a faulty cooling fan, or a blown head gasket.
Bubbles are normal. Small bubbles (enough to cover the end of your finger) are probably not enough to worry about. If you constantly heat water and dont cool it (ie. with a cooling fan) it will boil.
If you start the car from cold and pressure builds up quickly, almost instantly at the radiator cap then you have head gasket issues.

If the car begins to heat up above three quarters on the temp gauge turn it off and let it cool. Top up the radiator and run it with the cap off again. If the same happens turn it off, turn the ignition on and check the cooling fan.

Make sure the fan turns by hand, check the fuse, bridge out the connections (or if you have something that will talk to the ECU (software or a decent scanner) do an actuator test on the cooling fan. You should also be able to see what the ECU temp sensor is reading)

If the bubbles are excessive and you are 100% the cooling system is air free and the cooling fan and circuit are ok then yes, it may have head gasket issues.

As Frank pointed out you only really need to get the head skimmed if its warped. We routinely send our cylinder heads to be pressure tested. The guy we use usually gives them a 'tidy up' skim first and only gives them a proper skim if they need it. As the CG engines are pretty modern there is only a certain amount of metal that can be removed from them and it is possible to overskim a cylinder head whilst trying to remove the warp.
 
Forgot to say, 'Mayo' on the oil cap does not necessarily mean the head gasket has gone. It can be caused by condensation for example if the car isn't used regularly condensation can build up, mix with the oil and cause 'mayo' on the oil cap.

Blocked or leaking breather systems can do the same (Vauxhall 8 valve engines used to do that)
 
getawaycar said:
Forgot to say, 'Mayo' on the oil cap does not necessarily mean the head gasket has gone. It can be caused by condensation for example if the car isn't used regularly condensation can build up, mix with the oil and cause 'mayo' on the oil cap.

Blocked or leaking breather systems can do the same (Vauxhall 8 valve engines used to do that)
Click to expand...

yes, i thought about this, as engine havent been driven for a year or so ... i just fitted it in to my micra, .... but it is quiet a lot of that mayo on cap, i even may see it inside on shafts ...
grrr....

i suppose, there compression leak , and it creates bubble in to coolant system, over this engine getting overheated. some lads mentioned, that even with open radiator were driven car, and there were no issue with overheating., so i recon it is typical headgasket leak. I cannot explain, i have not really much experience with cars, just couple years doing them.... nissan skyline, rover 414 ad fiat punto is quiet good source of mechanical practising , now that micra make my head sick. Very little signs of blown headgasket ( wouldnt say it is regular problem for micra), ... no smoke, no oil in coolant, just overheating, and lil mayo on oil cap..... will try play up with engine this weekend , if nothing change will get headgasket.
headgasket goin cost up to 25 euro, check and skimmng around 70 quid. (in euro)..... even i have a buyer for this car, i wont make money on this car.
Regular garage probably would drop any effort fix that car, just skip it,

but i might will do, as i am bit interested, does it goin to be fine after headgasket change.

too much money involved already , maybe sell my punto, and keep micra :) lol .. two pints of wine in to me by now .. lol
 
i had block'd matrix dodgy rad, so changed them and the thermostat+waterpump for a good one,, that solved it for me
matrix has a bypass system so wont cause over heat, the rad/thermostat though could cause over heat
 
took out water pump ... it is PERFECT, like new, thermostat from Nissan... used , but opens in hot water, ...
would engine headbolt re-tightening would help ?? id say for 1/4 spin?
 
Decided put everything back, will change radiator, i have spare shabby one , will try go through all bleeding procedures, number times, if it still goin overheat, engine head will go off.

So far checked and found working in limits...:
thermostat ok,
waterpump perfect,
sensor (two pin ), shows correct electrical resistance.
rad fan workin directly connected to battery,
rad fan working when join two pin sensor wire... same time check engine light coming up in dash.

No any excessive pressure in coolant pipes.
No excessive stem or pressure from oil filling hole.

Just two problems - oveheating and litle oil moyo on oil filling cup.

Thoughts ... overheating would be likely coused by:
1- bad cooling system bleeding, some air trapped in.
2 - leaking headgasket, some pressure escaping from cylinder in to cooling system, causing air bubble, and causing overheating. ..... but there is no excessive pressure in cooling system.....
3- blocked cooling line (hole ) in headgasket.
4- moyo on oil filling cup caused by condensation, as engine havent run properly for a year. , no moyo on dipstick.

So, what you think about all this lads ?


so dont know what would cause the overheating ....
 
three hours hard working, managed get head gasket out. i am adding some pictures, would you see something suspicious ? I think middle part of gasket where oil and water lines gos, there is look like cracked gasket. just have a look, and say what ya think,

DSC06203.jpg
 
Got engine head back. Nice and shiny :) Pressure tested and skimmed. Al fine.

So , does somebody have instruction for engine head bolt tightening procedure, i know approximately , but want make sure, i am doing right way.

thanks
 
Maris Lels said:
Got engine head back. Nice and shiny :) Pressure tested and skimmed. Al fine.

So , does somebody have instruction for engine head bolt tightening procedure, i know approximately , but want make sure, i am doing right way.

thanks
Click to expand...

i just do the middle 2 then work outwards in a spiral maris, then i leave it for an hour or so then slacken each one off 1 full turn then back down (1 at a time) :)
 
+1!

I can never remember so I do as Frank does. Never failed yet. I dont think the bolts are that sensitive, they arent stretch bolts and the CG engine isnt a Rover one! LOL!
 
aaarghhh .... #### happens .... before bolts goin in, i was putting washers first, and one washer at chain side flip over and fell in to engine... where chain located... cant see it .. .any advice get that washer out, as i wont put anything on engine until washer will be out. :(
 
Maris Lels said:
aaarghhh .... #### happens .... before bolts goin in, i was putting washers first, and one washer at chain side flip over and fell in to engine... where chain located... cant see it .. .any advice get that washer out, as i wont put anything on engine until washer will be out. :(
Click to expand...

:doh::doh::doh: sump off job to remove the lower chain cover maris
 
some things have been moved since my last post. I was busy for 5 days, had to go to work, and i didnt had time work on micra. So far i've done .... took off sump, and lucky me - that washer were lying on sump, so i didnt need take off side part. .. lucky me.. because i there is so little space, that i didnt know how i'll manage it :) .. engine head have been in motorshop, cleaned , tested and skimmed , all test fine .
When were installing headgasket, there were problem with it , as it didnt fit correctly on two small pipes ... (sorry English not my native language, so dont know how to call them)... on which head slide on, to be in proper position .. ., so i bit damaged headgasket when tried force it. so got another one which fits perfectly.
So i put headgasket and head on top, and screw bolts with hand, as i hadnt at that time proper torque tool, and it was lying like that for 4 days. Is that will be ok ?

Also, what was torque figures, and torque procedure ?

Pics to follow.
Thanks

Maris
 
Maris Lels said:
some things have been moved since my last post. I was busy for 5 days, had to go to work, and i didnt had time work on micra. So far i've done .... took off sump, and lucky me - that washer were lying on sump, so i didnt need take off side part. .. lucky me.. because i there is so little space, that i didnt know how i'll manage it :) .. engine head have been in motorshop, cleaned , tested and skimmed , all test fine .
When were installing headgasket, there were problem with it , as it didnt fit correctly on two small pipes ... (sorry English not my native language, so dont know how to call them)... on which head slide on, to be in proper position .. ., so i bit damaged headgasket when tried force it. so got another one which fits perfectly.
So i put headgasket and head on top, and screw bolts with hand, as i hadnt at that time proper torque tool, and it was lying like that for 4 days. Is that will be ok ?

Also, what was torque figures, and torque procedure ?

Pics to follow.
Thanks

Maris
Click to expand...

haynes says 39 nm, then 78, then slacken, then 35, then 60 deg maris.
i always give them about 100nm, then slacken 1 at a time, then 100 again personally
 
frank said:
haynes says 39 nm, then 78, then slacken, then 35, then 60 deg maris.
i always give them about 100nm, then slacken 1 at a time, then 100 again personally
Click to expand...

Thanks frank, do i have slacken all bolts then torque again, or i have to each bolt slacken, then torque ?

cheers
 
Maris Lels said:
Thanks frank, do i have slacken all bolts then torque again, or i have to each bolt slacken, then torque ?

cheers
Click to expand...

if you slacken then 1 at a time maris, the others hold the gasket compressed and you will get another 30 deg of turn @ the same NM (never failed me yet, and i re-use factory fitted ones :wasntme:)
 
i havent read the whole thread, but if fans not kicking in but works when powered, then just fit a switch to manually turn the fan on, might get you out of the trouble for a while
 
superls said:
i havent read the whole thread, but if fans not kicking in but works when powered, then just fit a switch to manually turn the fan on, might get you out of the trouble for a while
Click to expand...

i have been tried this, i manually turn on rad fan, than started car, and it went still overheated, so it didnt help... anyway headgasket fitted. Will see later on, when will manage start car.
 
So, some work has been done. Fitted headgasket. As Frank advised , 100 nm, then slacken each bolt, and make torque back to 100 nm one by one, after that each bolt torqued 30 degree, ... actually it make 120 nm.
Spend a lot of time with that bloody chain .... top one. didn't expect itl make so many problems. i hope i fit everything back properly. .... crankshaft pulley on second mark(TDC), inlet pulley mark(hole were pulley notch slide in) look 9 o'clock , exhaust looks 12 o'clock. i hope that marks on chain (silver and bronze ) doesn't play big role , as they were in wrong positions .
Tomorrow goin fit exhaust and inlet manifolds, connect everything back and fire up.

some pictures

Photo0106.jpg


torquing ...

Photo0110.jpg
 
so some news. not really good at the moment. i cant start an engine. when tried start first time, it catch up on 2 cylinders for 1-2 sec, now nothing absolutely .. and it spins faster than should be .. i think :( :doh: no knocking sound or strange sound.
 
it looks like you need to advance the inlet 2 teeth, and advance the exhaust 1 tooth mate
 

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inlet clockwise 2, and exhaust clockwise 1 from what i can see maris, post another pic when reset :), and always turn the engine by hand first eh :eek:
 
push the tensioner back and wedge it with a thin screwdriver maris, (so that the chain is loose) then undo the sprocket bolt and pull the sprocket off and shuffle it round the chain, then turn the cam till the dowel lines up.
all @ tdc eh :)
 
that thing wont fit right, i mean that bloody chain... exhaust side looks very loose , left side is too tight, and i cant fit inlet side ... chain too tight. on that top chain, there is silver color side on one unit, were it suppose to be, when engine on tdc ?
 
thats a lot better mate, have you got 5 links inside the dots ?


 

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thanks mate, to put properly chain, will need take off side wall. I manage put chain as it is, exhaust camshaft moved for a mil., managed start car, working fine, but still overheats, took out thermostat , still overheats, another day goin change radiator, if that wont help, i dont know what to think then.
also when getting hot , it starts kind misfiring on one cylinder.
 
how could be frost damage ? then frost plug would be pop out, and coolant would leak. i have another radiator. will change it after couple days, ill have to work for weekend.
 
cracked bore maybe ?
its not a japspec engine is it maris ? because the coolant sensors are different apparently
 

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