Welder selection help
- Thread starter Stani1029
- Start date
the gas can be a problem stani (expensive bottle rental, short life hobby gas etc) but i can remember using anti spatter spray once, and was impressed
AKA poor weld parameter masking spray
frank
Club Member
nah, assistance for the birdsheet gasless migwireAKA poor weld parameter masking spray
superls
K10 Tuner
id definately go gas if you can, there are a couple of places near you that do cheap or rent free gas i believe, you wont get much 'descent' welder for £200,
AVOID SIP
go and have a look on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php
im on there, very helpful bunch and tonnes of info on there
AVOID SIP
go and have a look on http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php
im on there, very helpful bunch and tonnes of info on there
Mine is a 150A SIP jobby and about 25 years old now and still going strong. I've welded 10mm plate with it (with multiple runs) so a 130A as above should be good for pretty much anything car related.
DO NOT be tempted to get a no gas one, they are poor at best and don't work if there is the slightest breeze (the shielding gas cloud gets blown away easily).
The little disposable gas bottles (as in Halfords) don't last forever and can be expensive, if you know anyone who works in a pub ask if you can 'borrow' a CO2 cylinder from them. You'll need to get a pressure regulator for the bigger bottles, but CO2 works perfectly well when welding mild steel (the weld is a bit dirtier but no less strong) and a pub bottle will last ages. If you don't know anyone in a pub you can buy the 'pub' bottles for about £65 which obviously is full of gas, then refills cost about £15 which is about the same as what you'd pay for a tiny 390/600g disposable bottle! Best gas is an Argon/CO2 mix (Argoshield or similar) which will give a nice clean weld. Another benefit of Argoshield is you can use less current to acieve the same weld depth that you would with plain CO2. If you don't plan on welding much then bulk buying the disposable bottles would be the best bet.
When welding, the two best tips I can give are;
1 - make sure whatever you are trying to weld is clean, it's much easier and quicker to cut back to clean rust free metal than to try and weld onto rust,
and
2 - get yourself a head shield, the hand held one you get as part of the starter kits is ok but it is much, much easier to get a neat weld if you are holding the welding torch with both hands.
Keep a look out locally on Ebay, you find quite a few used welders on there.
Hope some of this helps. Once you've got one you'll never look back and wonder how you managed without.
DO NOT be tempted to get a no gas one, they are poor at best and don't work if there is the slightest breeze (the shielding gas cloud gets blown away easily).
The little disposable gas bottles (as in Halfords) don't last forever and can be expensive, if you know anyone who works in a pub ask if you can 'borrow' a CO2 cylinder from them. You'll need to get a pressure regulator for the bigger bottles, but CO2 works perfectly well when welding mild steel (the weld is a bit dirtier but no less strong) and a pub bottle will last ages. If you don't know anyone in a pub you can buy the 'pub' bottles for about £65 which obviously is full of gas, then refills cost about £15 which is about the same as what you'd pay for a tiny 390/600g disposable bottle! Best gas is an Argon/CO2 mix (Argoshield or similar) which will give a nice clean weld. Another benefit of Argoshield is you can use less current to acieve the same weld depth that you would with plain CO2. If you don't plan on welding much then bulk buying the disposable bottles would be the best bet.
When welding, the two best tips I can give are;
1 - make sure whatever you are trying to weld is clean, it's much easier and quicker to cut back to clean rust free metal than to try and weld onto rust,
and
2 - get yourself a head shield, the hand held one you get as part of the starter kits is ok but it is much, much easier to get a neat weld if you are holding the welding torch with both hands.
Keep a look out locally on Ebay, you find quite a few used welders on there.
Hope some of this helps. Once you've got one you'll never look back and wonder how you managed without.
please i need a help about this. i am planning to weld myself to replace new front panel, both sills and driver rear quarter panel..... what is the good and cheap welder shall i get?
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination
If you want to buy a mig welder for building up a turbo system as well as doing body repairs, you're best off buying a gas welder over no-gas as gas will give a more consistent weld.
All welders run from electricity so don't worry about that, you do however want a welder with a good amp range.
If you want to buy a mig welder for building up a turbo system as well as doing body repairs, you're best off buying a gas welder over no-gas as gas will give a more consistent weld.
All welders run from electricity so don't worry about that, you do however want a welder with a good amp range.
Finally, thanks for the comment Karl
Well, if I get gas welder then I have to get new bottles when it's run out.
What if I get non gas welder with top amp? Is it going to be strong weld?
What do you recommend?
Right now, I want to weld myself to replace both new sills, driver rear quarter panel and complete front panel. Maybe daily turbo ( it will be later on) You never know.
Anyway, I don't want mechanic to fix for me but I want to learn and build myself. Mechanic is my hobby you know.
Thanks
Jk
Well, if I get gas welder then I have to get new bottles when it's run out.
What if I get non gas welder with top amp? Is it going to be strong weld?
What do you recommend?
Right now, I want to weld myself to replace both new sills, driver rear quarter panel and complete front panel. Maybe daily turbo ( it will be later on) You never know.
Anyway, I don't want mechanic to fix for me but I want to learn and build myself. Mechanic is my hobby you know.
Thanks
Jk
Apparently they are less controllable and work hotter so aren't really suited to thin metal
Also, what you 'save' in gas you lose with the additional expense of flux cored wire
Yours is an inverter welder isn't it Karl? Way better than the traditional Arc welderI did say I wasn't an expert
I can't say I had problems with my stick welder when doing thin metal (unless the amps are too high)
pork
Club Member
That welder I bought (one in pic on previous page) has made everything, turbo manifolds to tiny brackets.
Those gas bottles are only £11, last for most jobs you'll be undertaking. Think I've used 6 bottles over the last year to make everything. I've made, and I've made quite a few different things now, car and non car related
Get yourself lots of tips tho, only couple of £, but it's better to have them to hand then run out half way thru a job
Those gas bottles are only £11, last for most jobs you'll be undertaking. Think I've used 6 bottles over the last year to make everything. I've made, and I've made quite a few different things now, car and non car related
Get yourself lots of tips tho, only couple of £, but it's better to have them to hand then run out half way thru a job
Thats more down to preparation and welding practice/technique rather than just welder selection
I got my welder secondhand off Ebay for about £40. Its a SIP Migmate 130 Turbo. A lot of people dont like Sip products but I have had no problems with it. Only thing I would recommend is switching the standard plastic wire liner out for either a metal or teflon one to avoid wire feed problems. Me being a cheap ass yorkshireman I replaced the plastic liner with a length of net curtain wire Works a treat
Works a treat Well I didn't know thatMines a siegen....Another brand for sip, so yeah, no problems
Lol
Thats probably best jk, find one you like the look of within budget then post details up and I'm sure people will help youNow, I get it so I will buy gas welder then. Right, i got to find a good and decent welder.
If I find out anything then I will post on here to see if it's good or not.
Me being a cheap ass yorkshireman I replaced the plastic liner with a length of net curtain wire
I actually lol'd
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
gas welders will generate a more controllable and stable arc. Your greatest enemy when welding ferrous metals is hydrogen, which disolves in liquid iron/steel and causes porosity when cooling leading to poor strength. ALWAYS go gas over non gas. There is NO advantage to non gas other than cost and to a small degree portability.
Belly93
to turbo or new lump :/ hmmm
got a link to a welder like yours pork?
OK - lets get some things straight here.....
Gas welding - means you burn gas and use the flame to generate the heat to melt the metal. Not so good for hobby/home use as the bottles of flammable gas can be nasty to store.
MIG welding - uses an electric arc to heat the metal to melting point. There is a reel of metal in the machine that is fed to the torch to be used as filler. You need to keep a shield of inert gas around the weld pool which can come from a gas bottle or from flux in the wire which vapourises (gasless MIG).
There are also Arc welders and TIG welders - along with MIG these are all electric arc welding methods.
Gasless MIG - works but is difficult to get right and not generally worth the extra messing around needed.
MIG welding - you use a bottle of gas. Little hobby bottles are OK but expensive - my "pub size" (about 3 feet high) CO2 bottle costs £20 per refill and there's a £20 deposit on the bottle.
Strength of the weld in home use will depend on penetration (how deep the weld has melted the parent metal), consistency (nice smooth contimuous runs - not stop start) and the purity of the metal (how well you have kept impurities out of it).
For car bodywork a 100Amp welder will be fine but stick with Sealey or Clarke at this end of the market as this sort of size SIP machines don't have a great reputation. Turbo-manifolds - are not something for the in-experienced welder to start knocking out, any slag or impurities on the inside of the tubes can be impossible to get at and yet break off in use - guess where it goes then? yep into the compressor which doesn't like hard lumps of stuff at high speed.
I use a Clarke 150Amp welder for most things with CO2 gas. I also have a TIG welder for more delicate stuff and I've got a bottle of Argon gas for use with that or on the MIG if I'm welding Stainless with it.
Iain
Gas welding - means you burn gas and use the flame to generate the heat to melt the metal. Not so good for hobby/home use as the bottles of flammable gas can be nasty to store.
MIG welding - uses an electric arc to heat the metal to melting point. There is a reel of metal in the machine that is fed to the torch to be used as filler. You need to keep a shield of inert gas around the weld pool which can come from a gas bottle or from flux in the wire which vapourises (gasless MIG).
There are also Arc welders and TIG welders - along with MIG these are all electric arc welding methods.
Gasless MIG - works but is difficult to get right and not generally worth the extra messing around needed.
MIG welding - you use a bottle of gas. Little hobby bottles are OK but expensive - my "pub size" (about 3 feet high) CO2 bottle costs £20 per refill and there's a £20 deposit on the bottle.
Strength of the weld in home use will depend on penetration (how deep the weld has melted the parent metal), consistency (nice smooth contimuous runs - not stop start) and the purity of the metal (how well you have kept impurities out of it).
For car bodywork a 100Amp welder will be fine but stick with Sealey or Clarke at this end of the market as this sort of size SIP machines don't have a great reputation. Turbo-manifolds - are not something for the in-experienced welder to start knocking out, any slag or impurities on the inside of the tubes can be impossible to get at and yet break off in use - guess where it goes then? yep into the compressor which doesn't like hard lumps of stuff at high speed.
I use a Clarke 150Amp welder for most things with CO2 gas. I also have a TIG welder for more delicate stuff and I've got a bottle of Argon gas for use with that or on the MIG if I'm welding Stainless with it.
Iain
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Few points:
Metal Inert Gas (MIG) and Metal Active Gas (MAG) are both types of Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW). Tungsten Inert Gas (TIG) and Tungsten Active Gas (TAG) are both types of Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW). The burning of gases is not what distinguishes a welding process as gasless or gaseous. Oxy-acetalene welding is sometimes called gas welding, but this is an american terminology. The coating on Manual Arc Welding rods burns to create a shielding gas, so it uses gas in the process too, although it isn't fed as raw gas.
Metal Inert Gas (MIG) and Metal Active Gas (MAG) are both types of Gas Metal Arc Welding (GMAW). Tungsten Inert Gas (TIG) and Tungsten Active Gas (TAG) are both types of Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW). The burning of gases is not what distinguishes a welding process as gasless or gaseous. Oxy-acetalene welding is sometimes called gas welding, but this is an american terminology. The coating on Manual Arc Welding rods burns to create a shielding gas, so it uses gas in the process too, although it isn't fed as raw gas.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/100e-mig-welder
That'll do the job and work fine from a normal domestic power supply. It will come with a regulator for the small hobby gas cylinders. To use a "proper" cylinder you will need a different regulator and an adapter to go from the 1/4" bore hose that it will use to the 4mm bore hose that is on the welder.
Bigger is generally better so one of these would give you more options as it would let you weld thicker stuff.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig151en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder
It's cheaper because there won't be any type of regulator in the box so make sure you add that to the price if you intend to use gas (which I would recommend). In theory that needs a 16Amp socket to run from but in practice it will happily run on a domestic 13Amp socket. It's perfectly safe to do this as you would only have a 13Amp fuse in the plug so if the welder does draw more than 13Amp then the fuse will blow and shut everything down long before there is any danger to the wiring. It'll only do this if you are welding on the top settings which are for far heavier stuff that you will usually use on a car (but it's nice to be able to do it). I use a 150TE that I've had for about 12 years - the best recommendation I can give is that if it was stolen today I would have another one the same tomorrow.
Beware the minimum current - there are cheaper 100-150Amp welders out there but their minimum settings are too high for the relatively thin metal used in car bodywork. Screwfix had a bunch of welders like that and a lot of people rushed out and bought them without realising - they often pop up on ebay now because people have tried to use them and found that they are difficult to use on most car stuff. Both those machines have a minimum setting of 30Amps.
The reason I've pointed at Machinemart is that they often have VAT free events. These are invite only and the invites are sent to people who have bought stuff from them before. There's no set times for them so it's pot luck whether there will be one when you are ready to buy. It's worth going to your local Machinemart and buying something so that they have your name and address on file if they haven't already got it. Hopefully the next time your local shop is having an event you will get an invite and can make a significat saving. Of course that's no good if you are in a rush but if you can wait for a couple of months then the saving is significant. Let friends, family and colleagues know you are looking out for an invite and if one of them gets one then they can let you have it if they don't have anything to buy this time around or you can add tag along with them (the invite lets you take a guest) or add it to their order if they are buying online. Another reason for Machinemart is that they carry most of the spare parts in stock so if you manage to drive your car over the torch on a Sunday afternoon then you can probably be back up and running that day rather than the job coming to a halt until you can order spares on Monday and they don't actually get delivered till Wednesday.
Iain
That'll do the job and work fine from a normal domestic power supply. It will come with a regulator for the small hobby gas cylinders. To use a "proper" cylinder you will need a different regulator and an adapter to go from the 1/4" bore hose that it will use to the 4mm bore hose that is on the welder.
Bigger is generally better so one of these would give you more options as it would let you weld thicker stuff.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig151en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder
It's cheaper because there won't be any type of regulator in the box so make sure you add that to the price if you intend to use gas (which I would recommend). In theory that needs a 16Amp socket to run from but in practice it will happily run on a domestic 13Amp socket. It's perfectly safe to do this as you would only have a 13Amp fuse in the plug so if the welder does draw more than 13Amp then the fuse will blow and shut everything down long before there is any danger to the wiring. It'll only do this if you are welding on the top settings which are for far heavier stuff that you will usually use on a car (but it's nice to be able to do it). I use a 150TE that I've had for about 12 years - the best recommendation I can give is that if it was stolen today I would have another one the same tomorrow.
Beware the minimum current - there are cheaper 100-150Amp welders out there but their minimum settings are too high for the relatively thin metal used in car bodywork. Screwfix had a bunch of welders like that and a lot of people rushed out and bought them without realising - they often pop up on ebay now because people have tried to use them and found that they are difficult to use on most car stuff. Both those machines have a minimum setting of 30Amps.
The reason I've pointed at Machinemart is that they often have VAT free events. These are invite only and the invites are sent to people who have bought stuff from them before. There's no set times for them so it's pot luck whether there will be one when you are ready to buy. It's worth going to your local Machinemart and buying something so that they have your name and address on file if they haven't already got it. Hopefully the next time your local shop is having an event you will get an invite and can make a significat saving. Of course that's no good if you are in a rush but if you can wait for a couple of months then the saving is significant. Let friends, family and colleagues know you are looking out for an invite and if one of them gets one then they can let you have it if they don't have anything to buy this time around or you can add tag along with them (the invite lets you take a guest) or add it to their order if they are buying online. Another reason for Machinemart is that they carry most of the spare parts in stock so if you manage to drive your car over the torch on a Sunday afternoon then you can probably be back up and running that day rather than the job coming to a halt until you can order spares on Monday and they don't actually get delivered till Wednesday.
Iain
Hi guys, I am thinking to get a good used welder so please can anyone help me about this welder. It's in my area so what do I need to know about this welder?
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=321205149773
Cheers guy
Jk
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?sbk=1&nav=SEARCH&itemId=321205149773
Cheers guy
Jk
h701micra said:Well that's an Arc welder for a start and its plenty powerful enough for any task you'll come across on a car
Is it good for welding some patches and need to replace new complete front panel?
It looks like used condition. Is there anything that I need to ask this seller before I buy this welder.
Cheers
Jk
Unless you are a skilled welder you will struggle to weld a car with that set.
As people have already mentioned MIG is best for you, its easy to set up and learn with, you need one with gas, I have used a Pub CO2 bottle for years, its fine for cars but check you get CO2 as some pub bottles are now a mixed gas.
I have had a Cebora 130 but now use a Draper 130 and its fine
One big thing no one has mentioned that you need to be aware of is allways use a welder in a well ventilated area this is most important if using CO2 as the shielding gas as when you weld it changes to carbon monoxide which can suffocate you if working in a confined space IE inside a car
Have a look at a local night school as some offer welding courses, if some one shows you, you will be away in half a day
Enuo
Glorified Electrician
Shouldn't change to monoxide from dioxide, MIG is metal INERT gas welding after all
