very poorly pao :-(

[kathryn]

Hi there,

Ive had my pao for three years now with absolutley no problems. It had a leaky roof but I got hold of a kit and replaced it with help from a friend and other than that its been the most reliable car Ive ever had. But now Im really worried....

Last week all of a sudden white steam billowing out of bonnet and car clugging to a halt in middle lane of three lane flyover. Just managed to get to a carpark - sat and let it cool, got some water - checked radiator and added some. I noticed then that the coolant was dry. Filled it up.

Drove two more miles - just as arrived white steam billowing again. Let car cool for an hour but still wasnt home. Had no roadside recovery - Im v pregnant right now & had to make it home so after an hour I did the same. Topped up radiator with water and refilled the coolant - which was completely dry again!

I also added oil - good quality.

I just about made it home and - white billowing steam and chugged to a halt. I havent moved it since.

Today I finally got a mo and called a garage and figured they would suggest getting a nissan micra radiator replacement - but instead he said that wouldnt work and that the best bet was to send of this cars radiator for reconditioning. 90 for taking it out and putting recon back in, 150 for the reconditioning... however, he reckons that might only be the start of the problems... and that once the recon radiator back in, only then can he find out whats the real problem is and that is may be really big issues in the engine. He warned that the cost might really begin to build up (as in 1000's)!

I love the car... even preggars I was hoping to keep hold of it and make it work... but in truth I really just want to keep it alive, even if I have to eventually give it up to another owner. Im really in shock as had always thought they can be fixed with micra parts and that I could keep it going no matter what.

Hope this isnt too long / too much detail but keeping my fingers xd for even the littlest bit of advice.

Thanks! PS Im based in Bristol.

 

[frank]

sounds like a typical head gasket fail to me kathryn, the k10 micra gaskets can be sourced for about £5 nowadays

 

[kathryn]

First of all massive massive thanks for getting back so quickly! Ok so should I still be getting radiator out n reconditioned? Tow truck coming to take it up for this today so just want to check. I reckon maybe yes and then the diagnosis wd be as you say with hopefully no other complications...

 

[frank]

i would do some diagnosis before forking out any money kathryn, you could take the hoses off the rad and run a hosepipe through the system to check its not blocked.
but first you could fill the rad to the brim and let it idle for 5 mins, some random bubbles may just be trapped air, but a continous stream of bubbles is a sure sign of a failed head gasket (2 hr job for a competent mechanic)

 

[wylie]

Also check that your oil is not going 'creamy'......if so then the water is getting to it ref head gasket problem - good luck

 

[Provo]

The engines in a Pao is from my understanding the same as a K10, such engines don't quit easy on you. Indeed seems like a gasket leaking or like a hose broken due to wear. I had both problems already. In some cases you actually see the problem. Try doing the following:

If its a gasket leak you can try checking the radiator coolant by screwing the cap off and look inside: if the coolant is just water and only water then the gasket can be still intact, if it ain't there should be slug in it (seems like mud and smells awful) In the water itself seems like slime sometimes you cant see it, then try to find it with your finger. Mostly it clouds up on the ceiling of the radiator. If you can't find it it doesn't mean it is not broken (the gasket can break on different places not given that effect). Note: check it when the engine is cold! Never turn the rad cap off when hot if you dont have experience with it!

Well the most common problem is a hose that breaks (mostly tears apart due to the fluctuation on pressure and material wear). When the engine is cold fill it up fully and start the engine and let it run idle. A MA12 engine gets hot pretty quickly so after 10-15minuts the water should get under pressure. The thermostatic valve will open to cool the engine down trough the hoses down the radiator and the hoses will get hot (you can feel this on the hose). When the water gets too hot (exceeds 100 °C degrees it normally goes into steam) If your cooling system works proper the pressure inside the hoses will rise and the coolant can go up to 120°C without becoming steam due to that the pressure builds up. If there is a leak in your hoses the pressure wont build up and the coolant water starts to boil at 100°C escaping trough a hole of you hose or other component. What you need to do is check in those 10-20minutes that the engine warms up is for any dripping leaks from the hoses or where the origin of the steam is. There are 4 hoses:
- 2 hoses that go to the radiator. One hose you always see (and the most common one that breaks) is the one on top your radiator. The other hose is down the radiator, that hose might not break that easy because that's the point where cooled water from the radiator comes out and is cold so the hose is less under pressure = less wear.
-2 smaller hoses for the heater inside. Those hoses are mounted on the other side of the engine and go inside to cat to your heater. Those 2 hoses tend to break alot and I had to repair one a month ago of a friend of mine. You can see the hoses on the carburettor or air filter (this is the big black pot mounted on top of the engine)
Note: be careful again you are heating up the engine and when steam escapes and touches your skin it will cool down and transfer the heat to you, causing burns. AGAIN be safe and try to avoid this by staying on a distance. Also don't let the engine run hot, when an engine starts to run without coolent it can cause serious damage to cylinders and cylinder head.

Dont be afraid also, just pay a little attention. I think its gonna be a hose problem from my experience. Easy fix and it cost less then 10€. If its the gasket yes hen it costs some more around 500€ if you do it by a garage. People who are handy can change it for material cost only (gasket set: 180€ better change the timing belt and water pump for another 150€ since the engine has to be opened)

Don't panic for money all that easy to fix and repair and doesn't cost ALOT of money, garage people always says its 1000€ if you to this on a new car. This are VERY simple engines to work on and have alot of space to do it.


Let me know when you checked it


Cheers from Belgium,

Provo

 

[kathryn]

Hi there and again thanks so much for these replies and for all the checks suggested! So unfortunately I had to dash up to Scotland for an emergency family visit later that night and had to make a v quick decision before I did. I cancelled the tow truck but got a mechanic friend to take the radiator out and drop it off at a nissan figaro garage for checking / potential reconditioning by a radiator specialist.
SO the news from the radiator specialist (that the nissan figaro garage sent it to) is that the radiator is beyond repair / reconditioning and they have now suggested I try to get hold of a nissan micra automatic radiator... I havent had a full conversation with him yet so I dont know the full story.
The radiator thats been taken out cant go back in (the mechanic snapped a plastic connecting hose that to be fair was exceptionally worn ad Im told its not in fit state anyway) so now I must find a replacement or little pao comes to an end. Just like that... Crumbs... I hope I can fix this - does any one have further words of wisdom to share. MAny many thanks in advance....

 

[kathryn]

ps special thanks Provo for such a great and detailed responce!

 

[kathryn]

Ok latest on this then is that the problem with the radiator is that the core replacement is no longer avail. You cant use radiators from figaros or from the K10 engine as it doesnt fit apparently. I will have to get a new one made so Im going to look into that. Only once its remade and back in will I then know whether the head gasket still ok... If not then I may be after a good second hand auto nissan micra engine to drop in... Determined to keep it going so let see. I'll keep updating this as may it will be useful for others. Really welcome any thoughts or comments! And if you have an auto nissan micra engine then do let me know as I made need! WIll have to keep a close eye on the costs tho :-/ and see how far I can go...

 

[Provo]

They always told me that PAO engines were identical of the K10 types (figarao engines does have a look alike but hey have a turbo powered one and a indirect injection system if I remember correctly, don't shoot me if I'm wrong). Well changing a radiator ain't that hard, u can even place a look-alike and drill some holes yourself to mount it. First can you take some pictures of the radiator ad the engine bay of the PAO? So we can have a better understanding what is been going on under the hood of your car?

 

[kathryn]

 

[kathryn]

Hi there,
so as you can see Ive posted shots of the radiator - for which Ive now ordered a replacement and apparenty its already been shipped which is exciting. The car is over town at my friend mechanics place which is a bit tricky for me right now.

Also in the photo tho - sitting on the radiator the other thing that came out and was very eroded... the thermostat housing. This now could be the tricky thing as have no idea where I could get a nissan pao thermostat housing BUT have been told this could poss be the same as the one in the K10 engine.

Re K10 or not K10 compatible/exchangeable... Ive been told that the K10 engine indeed does work in the pao but the radiator is different and you absolutely have to get the pao replacement.

Thanks again for your replies Provo - do you think, looking at the pic above that the thermostat housing looks similar to that from a K10... if so I can just order off ebay and hopefully I'll have both bits to go in very soon. If not Im thinking I might have to get it engineered which I have no doubt will be rather costly! Still if it all works in the end I'll be so happy!

Of course... once they are in we then still have to see if the head gasket is ok orr not... but one step at a time. and meanwhile the sun atleast is shining here.

 

[frank]

the rad has the heat exchange pipes for the auto g/box by the looks kathryn, and the stat housing looks k10 to me

 

[kathryn]

hi - thats great news re the stat housing! so fingers xd then that shouldnt be difficult at all. Re the rad yes - its an auto nissan so that all makes sense too... Feels like it all falling in the right direction which is great. This forum is fab - really appreciate the replies!

 

[solarice]

Fingers crossed the PAO lives to fight another day.