THE DREADED TIMING CHAIN OF DOOM

[xABANDONx]

yep so a little update, because of my exhuberent driving style my poor k12 has stretched his chain. i've taken it my mate/mechanic and the car will be getting sorted this week, unfortunately because its easter it will take several days longer because of bank holidays. all plans for mods are on hold in case anything more serious develops and it becomes uneconomical for me to fix the car. i love k12s with a passion but boy do i wish the french had kept their crap out of them

 

[Guy]

For some reason I can't post links at the mo but there's a guy on ebay who is advertising genuine Nissan chains for £250 fully fitted and he gets great feedback .

 

[frank]

the CR and (same hyvo chain ill fated QG) engines were apparently manufactured in japan, tho some QG,s were built in mexico.
and as some models seem to be unaffected, my guess would be that it was caused by a batch of inferior chains

 

[xABANDONx]

as renault and nissan own 45% of one another and the k12's are built in sunderland they use renault chains , hence built to only last a specific time

 

[frank]

as renault and nissan own 45% of one another and the k12's are built in sunderland they use renault chains , hence built to only last a specific time

engines assembled in japan but with renault chains ?

 

[Guy]

Frank's right, the CR engines (1.0, 1.2 and 1.4) and the HR16DE engines are all made by Aichi Machine Industry in Japan so I doubt the use Renault chains. Afaik, it was just a batch of duff chains that got through.

 

[northerner]

The renault influence on the K12 parts are for the likes of the electrics ie Valeo starters wiper motors etc. The only involvement in the engine was they fitted the Diesel from the clio. As states the petrol motors came from japan

 

[TheSam]

Driving style will have no effect on the chain, if its going to go it will go

 

[davey1991]

You must be kidding, if you are on and off the throttle hard and fast the strain on the chain is much increased! it wont shorten the life of a good chain substantially but your comment is just not true.

 

[dashimoto]

when should the chain be changed? is there a set milage like belts? or just as and when?

 

[xABANDONx]

You must be kidding, if you are on and off the throttle hard and fast the strain on the chain is much increased! it wont shorten the life of a good chain substantially but your comment is just not true.

not built to be raced i guess

 

[xABANDONx]

sorry i didn't research wikipedia sooner , jeez

 

[xABANDONx]

when should the chain be changed? is there a set milage like belts? or just as and when?

you'll know when it starts to go mate, mine started making a loud grinding noise under hard acceleration , then i had a break down which was diagnosed as the crankshaft sensor. engine light came back on so i took it back and after we had removed the the rocker we could visibly see the chain was loose as ####. so listen out for an intermittent grinding. how many miles have you done?

 

[dashimoto]

good info
thanks

done 55000 miles.

only reason i ask was cos i had a megan that was belt driven (not chain) and that just gave way. Had some warning with the crankshaft sensor but the garage said that was caused from the alt eating that belt and putting crap near the crank sensor. I didnt realise it was the belt.
(the megan had full dealer service history and belt wasnt due to be changed yet.)

 

[xABANDONx]

good info
thanks

done 55000 miles.

only reason i ask was cos i had a megan that was belt driven (not chain) and that just gave way. Had some warning with the crankshaft sensor but the garage said that was caused from the alt eating that belt and putting crap near the crank sensor. I didnt realise it was the belt.
(the megan had full dealer service history and belt wasnt due to be changed yet.)

i'm guessing the fault came come in many guises, the symptoms i had i.e. grinding and the diagnosis might not be the only warning signs. also after a long motorway drive my revs started sropping and rising of their own accord, if this happens move into the inside lane asap. after i'd left the motorway the engine began to judder at a set of lights the engine then stalled, presumably because the chain wasnt turing the cranks so no air could enter. after a period though i turned the engine on and the revs were stable, enough to get me home okay anyway.

 

[simonrush]

Hi All, I'm a new member with a 2003 k12. Having the dreaded problems with the engine management light coming on and the codes being cam shaft or crank shaft sensor errors. First happened a few year ago and was sorted with a new sensor. Happened again couple of yrs later and managed to keep it going with my mechanic fiddling with the sensor(think he may have advanced it a bit). The light's started coming back on with the same error messages and at times it's running a bit rough(even though mpg doesn't appear to be affected). Thinks it's about time we got the chain replaced as otherwise the car's in pretty good condition. Was wondering if anyone could recommned a garage for this in the Stockport/South Manchester/Cheshire area - Thanks Simon

 

[frank]

Happened again couple of yrs later and managed to keep it going with my mechanic fiddling with the sensor(think he may have advanced it a bit).

i threw that suggestion into the pot a while back because the chain is only 1/2 worn when it flags the faultcode eh, and its more of a sensor peramiter cockup than a chainwear issue, it bought you some time eh simon

 

[northerner]

I know a very honest Ex-nissan mechanic who lives in Warrington. He has all the knowledge and expertise and is well known in alot of the Nissan car clubs. Give him a bell (mark spanner handz Rayner 07825003392)

 

[micracle85]

ok before i attempt to change this chain of doom ...ive come across to differnt brands fai and adl ..adl i was told is genuine japan parts and the kit comprises of 1 cam gear ...the fai has 2 cam gear with sealant + the sealant key .
gsf is selling the adl kit for £210 inc vat central auto is selling the fai for £284 inc vat
adrew p[age is £ 165 for the adl am i changing both cam gears

 

[northerner]

Its FALSE economy to just do the chain or the chain and ONE gear. I'm sure each of the kits are upto scratch but you need to make sure that the chain adjuster is the ratchet type as some of the after market ones are not and can let the chain slacken until they reach oil pressure. I managed to get a whole Genuine kit on ebay for £180

 

[micracle85]

Its FALSE economy to just do the chain or the chain and ONE gear. I'm sure each of the kits are upto scratch but you need to make sure that the chain adjuster is the ratchet type as some of the after market ones are not and can let the chain slacken until they reach oil pressure. I managed to get a whole Genuine kit on ebay for £180

you got a link of the kit northerner

 

[northerner]

I've had a look and hes only got the chains left not the kits

 

[HypnoToad]

Out of interest, what year and size engine is yours? I was wondering if certain years and engine sizes were more likely to get the chain issue.

 

[northerner]

Apparently the first registered K12's ie 52 plate till around 06 were prone both all 1.0,1.2 and 1.4 models. It seems after that Nissan must have changed supplier for the chains or should I say the Japanese engine builder Aichi

 

[frank]

Apparently the first registered K12's ie 52 plate till around 06 were prone both all 1.0,1.2 and 1.4 models. It seems after that Nissan must have changed supplier for the chains or should I say the Japanese engine builder Aichi

and the QG15 almera/tino,s
toyota used the same hyvo chain design (inverted tooth) on the yaris engines, without any issues

 

[andy3681]

Evening team
Just reading through lots of old cam chain treads. I have seen references to a short term bodge of altering the sensor either cam or crank. is there a guide to this anywhere? I have searched but with so many cam threads I cant find anything.
thanks
Andy

 

[frank]

the cam has a small notch similar to this andy, so you would,nt need to shift the sensor much

 

[andy3681]

Thanks Frank.
I have previously slotted the fixing hole slightly to give me a tiny bit of adjustment (anti clockwise seemed to improve things)which has lasted 5 months but no the weather has cooled off it's very difficult to start and runs like a sack of ####. Anybody know which way to move the sensor and how you maintain the oil seal if I try to move the whole thing forward or backwards.
Or is it easier moving the crank sensor? either up or down. car only got to go another couple of months.

thanks
Andy

 

[frank]

i would probably try to angle it clockwise ? andy, with a reamer or drill held off centre, and sealer the sensor, and a washer under the bolt or whatever to hold it crooked slightly

 

[andy3681]

Not sure about how you angle? I dont see how a washer under the bolt would hold it angled. I have rotated it slightly. I am wondering about having a go at changing the chain myself is there a how to anywhere. I will have a search anyway.

 

[frank]

a washer under the bolthole mate, so that it fits in at an angle, but you would need to ream the sensor hole out first

 

[a73uk]

I was given a 2003 Micra 1.4SE in lieu of money I was owed, it had been sat for over a year, but once the battery was changed it started within 2 seconds.

The engine light was on, & the idle was a bit up & down for a minute, but I put that down to the petrol being over a year old & the fact the middle box is blowing.

I drove it round the corner to mine to clean it up etc. During the cleaning process I had to restart it a few times. Every time it started immediately, but, sometimes the EML was on, sometimes not.

Then I had to leave it idling for an hour to put the stereo code in, it ran perfectly smoothly, but the EML was on again. While it was running, I put my £10 OBD in & it came up with the cam position sensor.

Now, I don't know whether to order one, and a middle exhaust box, & possibly have welding done on it (noticed 2 holes on the inner wing when I took the drivers headlight out to polish it), so I can MOT it, as it would mean £150-200 put into it, to get, what.. £500-700 as an MOTd, running car in average (slightly dented) condition?

If it is the chain, it effectively writes it off, & I don't really have time to mess about with it..

I could break it & get.. maybe £4-500 back in parts & scrapping the rolling shell? What would you guys do?

 

[plmval]

Quote; “I don't really have time to mess about with it”.

“I could break it & get maybe £4-500 back in parts & scrapping the rolling shell? What would you guys do?”

You have answered your own question above.

Life is to short & there are always better more productive enjoyable things to be doing with one’s life than wasting your valuable free time messing about with K12 scrap?

Reference; https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/engine-cutting-out-on-starting-but-otherwise-runs-ok.71407/#post-776186

Good luck.