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The £80 Micra

So the parts are slowly coming in...

1. Pipercross PX600 Airbox + Filter + 100mm Intake Pipe - Finally got the airbox and filter and pipe. I have to say I am not satisfied with the filter as its not the one that I thought it would be (which is photographed somewhere earlier in the blog). I will probably just go for a Powertec cone filter on the end of the intake pipe, as originally planned rather than this shi**y filter which is supposed to go at the inlet of the airbox.

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2. Micra K12 Injectors - As already stated, Mark has experience with mapping for K12 1.2 injectors and my set arrived recently on a K12 fuel rail. I've removed them off the fuel rail and going to put them in my car hopefully tomorrow (as then its just one less thing for my mechanic to do), and then run Redex through them to clean them out.

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3. Almera MAF - I was going to purchase an Almera MAF as its bigger and recommended by Mark, but apparently the Almera MAF doesn't contain a temperature sensor like the Micra one does. Secondly, finding a genuine Bosch Almera MAF isn't exactly easy as you just don't know the its condition (unless you're willing to shell out big dosh for a brand new one). And so to keep things simple, I will be sticking with the Micra MAF for now. Plus Frank mentioned the Micra MAF will probably be good enough for my purposes anyway.

4. Old 1.0 ECU - Had a rummage through and found my old CG10's ECU along with my original key and ignition barrel halo ring. I was wondering why I never sold these but I am glad I didn't, as now I can send these for remapping rather than the CGA3 ECU which is already in the car.

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Had a cheeky run in with a MK7 Golf GTD today and I have to say I was impressed with 'The £80 Micra'. Started from 0mph at a set of traffic lights, and eventhough it was very uphill, where the Golf should have thrived since its a torquey diesel, we were actually completely level up until the point where I decided to lift off (around 70mph - it was a dual carriageway) as I hate driving fast. Not denying he would have flown past me if we kept going as my car is set up to have solid acceleration in the lower speed, and it really doesn't have much to give in the higher speeds, but you should have seen the look on his face! Not being bigheaded, but I am confident mine would have been quicker on level ground, and they have 182bhp and 0-60 in 7.4 seconds ;0

I guess it really goes to show just how restricted these little 1.4's are from factory (and I am sure the same goes for the 1.3's and the 1.0's), and just how quick they can be with relatively cheap and simple bolt-on mods like cams, exhaust manifold etc. I genuinely don't understand how the Micra K11 got such a bad rep in the UK as being a granny supermarket car or as a pizza delivery car when its actually such a great car to tune up. And to top it off, they are one of the most reliable cars in the UK today. Its such a shame to see all these K11's never reach their full potential. This should easily have been a popular car with proper car enthusiasts; but I guess that's what the MSC is all about!
 
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Finally received all the parts!

1. Full Airbox Assembly - I received the baseplate and fixed the rubber trumpets in the holes and fixed the intake pipe on the airbox. My mechanic will drill the inlet of the airbox to mount the MAF sensor.

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2. Full Throttle Body Assembly - I received the inlet manifold from Boggs Brothers! Amazing quality and ultra fast service; I dispatched the stock K11 manifold on a Friday and got the final completed manifold back on the following Thursday! The silicone hose kit works well to secure the bodies to the manifold. I am using K12 injectors on the stock K11 fuel rail but leaving the bike injectors and bike fuel rail alone in position as a way to keep the bike injector holes plugged.

Here is how the setup looks. I am very pleased with it!

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Here is some photos of the first manifold I bought:

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Comparing the overall design of the two manifolds:

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Comparing the view looking into the ports of the two manifolds:

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I am sticking with the longer Boggs Brother's one and refunding the other one.

I need to remove this block off the side of the bodies but can't get it off as there is a non-accessible screw holding it in place, so I am going to 'carefully' saw it off tomorrow.

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I have also plugged the upper throttle plate holes by using superglue on some plastic blanking plugs.

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3. 774 Cams - The 774's have arrived. Will hopefully get around to fitting the inlet cam in within the next few days provided the weather is good. Will leave the exhaust cam until after the throttle bodies have been installed.

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4. ECU Remap - I have sent my 1.0's ECU, key reader and key off to Mark at Tornado Systems for the remap. This saves me having to remove the 1.4 ECU out of the car. I should receive it back roughly within a week, as they only need to keep it for a day to put the new map on, and so most of the time will be taken in delivery. I enquired about the new rev limit and he has suggested 7840rpm as a compromise between power and engine explosion! I also enquired about launch control (lol!) but this feature can't be incorporated into the stock ECU :(.

Gave my mechanic a ring today to enquire about when he can fit it all in and he's off until New Year due to Christmas (how selfish!? lol).
So yeah, this bad boy should hopefully all be in and running within the first few days of 2020!

Fully Assembled After Sawing Block Off:

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Looks like you've been doing some fairly complicated work there. I hope it pays off and tunes up ok.

My plan for my intake is much less sophisticated. I was just going to fit a GA16 throttle and be done with it for the moment, but that will no doubt become a bottleneck at some point.
 
Looks like you've been doing some fairly complicated work there. I hope it pays off and tunes up ok.

My plan for my intake is much less sophisticated. I was just going to fit a GA16 throttle and be done with it for the moment, but that will no doubt become a bottleneck at some point.
Thanks, I hope so too! Shame about the cardboard airbox tho lol...
Good luck with yours as well!
 
Have you mocked it up in the engine bay yet just asking as it looks quite long from flange to back of airbox.

As I made a Mulholland style intake and found it hit the brake servo and firewall 🤬 so had to cut the flange off again and cut an inch out of the runners to make it fit lol
 
Have you mocked it up in the engine bay yet just asking as it looks quite long from flange to back of airbox.

As I made a Mulholland style intake and found it hit the brake servo and firewall 🤬 so had to cut the flange off again and cut an inch out of the runners to make it fit lol
Yes I do have some fears about this lol. I have mocked it up and it looks like its going to be a VERY tight squeeze, Although the photo above doesn't show the correct angle that the system is going to sit at, its actually going to be a bit more upright.
Boggs mentioned if its too long, then I can send it back to them for shortening.
The idea is to use 24 hour delivery and theyll do any adjustments within a day, so hopefully it will only delay matters by 3 days max.
 
Although I don't celebrate Christmas, I just want to wish a Merry Christmas to all those who do!

So what did my Christmas day consist of?

Well apart from still getting involved in some festivities with the neighbours (quite hard to resist!), I went ahead and fitted my 774 Inlet Camshaft today (since the bike bodies can only be fitted after New Year), and boy oh boy, what a mess I made of it!

Completely ballsed up the timing and even managed to mess the exhaust camshaft timing as well!

After a few hours of despair, it's all finally back together and works!

UPDATE - the inlet is advanced by one tooth and so although the low end torque is amazing, there isn't much power and mostly just noise after 5000rpm; will have to sort this on saturday.

Differences:

1.
The main difference is the powerband. The old cam setup kicked in at around 3000rpm and didn't have much more to give after around 6000rpm. However, with this new cam, the powerband starts a lot earlier - around 2000rpm.
UPDATE - this will just be down to the advanced inlet.

2. There is a power increase, however maybe I am feeling this due to a wider powerband. I am very reluctant to believe things!

3. The idle is slightly rougher; the lumpy idle makes it sound like a muscle car! I've wanted this sound for ages! It does seem to hesitate ever so slightly when starting, unsure of the cause of this, but there has been no 'check engine' light (as was the case the last time I changed a camshaft and messed the timing up).

I am selling my 250 deg 9mm inlet camshaft on eBay if anyone is interested, let me know!

Out with the old...

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In with the new...

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Low Rider

Poindexter
Moderator
Club Member
If you time the engine properly using the OEM timing marks you save yourself a lot of bother.
 
are those tdc pics ihtisham ? inlet looks a bit advanced ?
Yep definitely the inlet is advanced by one tooth. It struggles to start every time.

Will sort this on saturday.

The low end grunt is amazing but acceleration isn't great after 5000rpm.

Thanks for pointing it out.
 
Hohoho!

Did you or did you not set cylinder 1 tdc?



That is not a Cg engine, but crank should point up as in the picture. There are easier ways to get cylinder 1 tdc though ;)
Yes I set it to TDC by making sure the crank pointer was aligned with the second notch on the crank pulley.

Then I fitted the camshaft and realised that somehow through all the messing around, the crank pointer was no longer pointing to the second notch. That’s when the mess started!

What had happened was while I had the inlet cam and sprocket off, the exhaust cam must have jumped a tooth, and so when I put everything back together, nothing was aligning.

So I took the inlet off again and attempted to sort it out, but then obviously I didn’t succeed as the inlet was still one tooth out as pointed out to me by Frank.
 
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1. 774 Inlet Cam - Okay so I have refitted the inlet cam as it was advanced by one tooth, thanks to Frank for identifying and helping.
I am so glad I fitted it in myself, as I actually got the old 250deg cam fitted in by a garage for an extortionate price!

No more rough idle, which I am sad about as it doesn't sound like an angry muscle car!
And it starts much more easily which is good.
It has lost the low end torque and regained power at the high rpm's compared to when it was advanced, which are the expected symptoms of an advanced ignition.

The main difference between this 774 cam and my old cam is the powerband. There seems to be more power at the high end of the rev range. Like it just wants to keep going beyond 6400rpm, so can't wait for the limiter to be raised by Mark, so I can make the most of the cam. Matt stated the powerband for these cams is 2500-7500rpm, so I am losing 1100rpm worth of power due to the limiter cutting in early, but after Mark raises it from 6400rpm to 7800rpm, it should be fun! The low end grunt is about the same as for the old cam.

After the bike bodies are installed, I will put the 774 exhaust cam in.

Exhaust cam should be much easier to install (I recall when I did in on my CG10 that I found it easier), as you don't have to mess around with the tensioner.

This is how it looked when it was advanced by 1 tooth:

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This is how it looks now:

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Ihtisham, I am sure you have more experience with upgraded cams theory then me. Because I am after low end torque and do everything for it (like very proper maintenance and wondering if my car finally behaves like how it came out of the factory), do you know why it itsn't possible to keep the low end up to 3000 rpm intact and have everything after it suck up as much air as it can?
 
Ihtisham, I am sure you have more experience with upgraded cams theory then me. Because I am after low end torque and do everything for it (like very proper maintenance and wondering if my car finally behaves like how it came out of the factory), do you know why it itsn't possible to keep the low end up to 3000 rpm intact and have everything after it suck up as much air as it can?
Unfortunately, I don't fully know the answer to that properly.

From my understanding, wilder cams usually have greater duration and so have greater overlap (period where intake and exhaust valves are open).

At low rpm, overlap causes reversion, as the gases are moving too slowly, there isn't much of a pressure difference between the inlet area and exhaust area, so intake and exhaust gases can get forced back up the intake manifold. It is this reversion which causes lag and loss of torque at low rpm.

At high rpm, overlap causes supercharge, as the gases are moving very quickly, and so there is a greater pressure difference between the inlet area and exhaust area, so a current of gases flows from inlet valves through to exhaust valves. And so the remaining 10 or so percent of exhaust gases still in the combustion chamber can be blown out of the exhaust valve via this current. It is this supercharge which makes wilder cams 'come alive' at the higher rpm's.

This is roughly what I was told some time ago. Someone correct me if I am talking utter shi* lol

So its kind of a best of both worlds thing. Too wild cams will make the engine really powerful at high rpm but lose the low end torque. Having a way to increase the high end power, while still retaining low end torque would be great - a turbo?
 

frank

Club Member
its the inlet closing event that causes reversion ihtisham,
your 744 closes the valves at 62 deg abdc, so the piston has returned nearly 1/3rd up the bore when trying to compress the charge,
so the dynamic compression ratio at idle is nowhere near 9.5:1, hence the powerband shifting up the rpm (lag)
 
its the inlet closing event that causes reversion ihtisham,
your 744 closes the valves at 62 deg abdc, so the piston has returned nearly 1/3rd up the bore when trying to compress the charge,
so the dynamic compression ratio at idle is nowhere near 9.5:1, hence the powerband shifting up the rpm (lag)
Ah right, I read somewhere once that wilder cams drop compression ratio but didn’t understand why, but now I do, thanks

Do you know why on K11’s, that most of the gains come from changing inlet cam only, and changing the exhaust cam as well seems to just have the effect of shifting the powerband up even further?

(I’m selling the 250 inlet cam and tons of people are asking why I’m only selling the inlet and why not as a pair).
 

frank

Club Member
the inlet has the most effect, because the valve is bigger and because the inlet closing event makes a big difference to the peak hp and powerband window.
the exh valve is very small by modern standards, so anything over 7mm ish lift make FA difference to peak flow, and the valve overlap can easily be changed by altering the inlet and exh timing,
the exh opening event just affects blowdown basically (minimal hp effect)
and the lower dynamic compression that you now have would be improved by higher static compression, which is why i recommended pistons or headskim a while back :)
 
the inlet has the most effect, because the valve is bigger and because the inlet closing event makes a big difference to the peak hp and powerband window.
the exh valve is very small by modern standards, so anything over 7mm ish lift make FA difference to peak flow, and the valve overlap can easily be changed by altering the inlet and exh timing,
the exh opening event just affects blowdown basically (minimal hp effect)
and the lower dynamic compression that you now have would be improved by higher static compression, which is why i recommended pistons or headskim a while back :)
Seen one of your earlier posts here as well:

you get more grunt and better mpg with raised compression , and they are a must if you fit some wilder cams :)

I just struggled with finding the right type of pistons for high comp on a CGA3, there's loads of info on CG10 pistons into CG13 and Corsa pistons for turboed K11's but not much on high comp CGA3's :(

But I guess headwork is next on the list then!

Can I just get any coilpack 1.0 head, send it off for skimming, then get it back, put the 774's in that, and then put it into the car? (my car is a daily so can't have it not running as I don't know how long someone would want to keep the head for when they skim it). Because as far as I can remember, coilpack 1.0 and 1.4 heads are exactly the same with the only difference being cams?
 

frank

Club Member
matt humphris does flat top pistons that you just hone the bore out a few thou iirc mate
but yes you could use a 1.0 head and get about 2mm skimmed off, but that makes the lower chain pretty slack tho
this is where fitting a turbo works well on the cg,s, it compensates for the generic poor head gasflow and it hikes the compression up (win win)
but everybody tries to run lots of boost, and that costs silly money
 
matt humphris does flat top pistons that you just hone the bore out a few thou iirc mate
but yes you could use a 1.0 head and get about 2mm skimmed off, but that makes the lower chain pretty slack tho
this is where fitting a turbo works well on the cg,s, it compensates for the generic poor head gasflow and it hikes the compression up (win win)
but everybody tries to run lots of boost, and that costs silly money
Flat top pistons are a bit out of budget unfortunately! :/

What mm of headskim do you reckon would work well to increase compression without making the chain too slack while still giving very decent gains?

The engine is only on 45,000 miles so I'm guessing the natural slackening over the years won't be as bad as compared to, say, a 100,000 mile engine for example. (and there's no chain rattle at all, even when starting in cold, like I used to have on the old CG10).

I'm looking at Nismo headgaskets on eBay but even they're quite expensive and I can only find ones for CG10's (with no indication whether their for coilpack or dizzy).

I'm currently thinking about returning the 774 exhaust cam (if its possible) and better using the cash for a headskim to raise comp. Especially considering my comp ratio will be even lower than the stock 9.5:1 due to having the 774 inlet cam...
 
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frank

Club Member
i used stock cg head gaskets on all my engines, and 2mm ideally (rule of thumb is 1mm per unit of c/r, so 2mm = 11.5 ish)
the lower tensioner will be fully extended with a 2mm skim, so its not ideal
the dynamic c/r increases as the intake airflow speeds up obviously, you are always trying to increase the volumetric efficiency when tuning n/a or turbo
 
i used stock cg head gaskets on all my engines, and 2mm ideally (rule of thumb is 1mm per unit of c/r, so 2mm = 11.5 ish)
the lower tensioner will be fully extended with a 2mm skim, so its not ideal
the dynamic c/r increases as the intake airflow speeds up obviously, you are always trying to increase the volumetric efficiency when tuning n/a or turbo
Argh damn the lower tensioner!
Lol okay cool, I'll consider going for a headskim of something like 1.5-1.8mm then, as I don't want to be on the limit of the lower tensioner, as this should roughly still give a comp ratio of 9.5+1.5=11 to 9.5-1.8=11.3 using your rule of thumb, while not having the lower tensioner fully extended.
 
Just a few photos:

1. I sold my 250deg 9mm inlet cam today (for £220 so managed to recoup pretty much all the money back!) but before I packed it up, I thought it'd be cool to get a quick shot of the comparison between this cam and a Humphris 774 cam. The one on the right is the 774 cam and the one on the left is the 250deg cam. It's weird because in the second photo, the lobes look larger on the left cam, but then if you look at the lobes towards the back of both cams, then the 774's lobes look larger. Must just be the angle of the photo...

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2. We don't get many modified K11's around where I am, but finally saw one today. I hate to admit it but it looks way better than mine (definitely not quicker than mine :0) but I never really focused on the visuals too much. The inside of it looked crazy with pearlescent paint everywhere. Is it anyone's on here?

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By re-reading I can tell the right lobe is quite longer, I think I understand now what frank pointed out, there is some loss in the compression low end becase the valves can not be ideally closed but will have to keep up with the revs, correct me if I am wrong.
 
Update:

1. After the quick success in selling my 250deg 9mm inlet camshaft, I have now decided to sell my unused Humphris 774 cam. After listening to Frank on how there's literally minimal gain in changing the exhaust cam, I'd rather sell it on and let someone use it as an inlet. But I'll swap the cams first so someone actually receives the inlet rather than exhaust cam. The money received will be combined with whatever I can make by selling my Janspeed 4-2-1 (I know these are super rare now!) and spent on a Mij System and a newer 4-2-1.

Since I am low on the original allocated budget (taking into account I am still yet to be charged for the Tornado remap) and I definitely don't want to be eating into my savings for my next car, this project is literally becoming a 'make what you can from selling stuff and reuse the cash' sorta thing.
 
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Did a test run last month on a private road but forgot to put it on here...


I am quite happy with it, but know there's more potential to be released with the bike bodies and Tornado ECU.
This run was done on crappy tyres and the engine light was on due to a faulty lambda, as explained in the YouTube description. So hopefully another small gain potential.

Also 774 cam now sold!

Really want to hit 140bhp! I reckon its around the 105bhp mark currently. I think the bike bodies and remapped ECU will take it to 130ish, then with a new better 4-2-1 and a free flowing catback, hopefully it will become a 140bhp NA screamer. Can't wait to get it dynoed right at the end!
 
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Low Rider

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Really want to hit 140bhp! I reckon its around the 105bhp mark currently. I think the bike bodies and remapped ECU will take it to 130ish, then with a new better 4-2-1 and a free flowing catback, hopefully it will become a 140bhp NA screamer. Can't wait to get it dynoed right at the end!
You'll have to do one of 2 things to achieve that.

1. Take it to a dyno of the ego stroking variety.
2. Up your budget and fit a flowed head.
 
You'll have to do one of 2 things to achieve that.

1. Take it to a dyno of the ego stroking variety.
2. Up your budget and fit a flowed head.
I’ll just change my target bhp then!
130bhp doable?

I’d rather not spend anymore on the car now tbh other than the last couple of remaining things I have planned - fitting bodies and getting a catback.

It be going on carlton tuning dyno, doubt if anyone’s got any direct experience with them though so no idea if they overestimate or not.
 
From dyno I learned that there are different sizes. So a dyno that can take the latest Porsche or Hemi powered muscle car is a tad too big for a Micra. Another thing is that the dyno itself has to be maintained by the owner and it needs to be calibrated once in a while to be sure the result is proper.

On the other side, I wouldn't be very interested in bhp while it is a good thing you can safely say yours has 140 though. If you take it to a dyno, a too large one even, you should consider dyno it first before modifying and then dyno it after modyfing and the dyno sheet will show before and after curves.

The interesting part is that where the older curve is dipping and where the newer curve is better. In the end I would Datascan 0 - 60 it for two reasons, Datascan is precise when properly configured and gives real world figures (without the drivers response delay at the drag strip) and I have no good use for my daily driver because 60+ is not where I put my Micra to use.

All in all, maximum bhp is interesting enough but without the curve not telling me much I find. Also you will need the whole powerband or a very quick first gear to get impressive 0 - 60.

I also recommend to go to a car enthusiast day for all brands, preferably all Japanese brands alltogether and take one or two hours at the available dyno, you will see a lot of dyno runs with most cars owned by people curious enough about it. Seeing a car perform with a high torque curve across the board will be a long wait, I'm sure.
 
From dyno I learned that there are different sizes. So a dyno that can take the latest Porsche or Hemi powered muscle car is a tad too big for a Micra. Another thing is that the dyno itself has to be maintained by the owner and it needs to be calibrated once in a while to be sure the result is proper.

On the other side, I wouldn't be very interested in bhp while it is a good thing you can safely say yours has 140 though. If you take it to a dyno, a too large one even, you should consider dyno it first before modifying and then dyno it after modyfing and the dyno sheet will show before and after curves.

The interesting part is that where the older curve is dipping and where the newer curve is better. In the end I would Datascan 0 - 60 it for two reasons, Datascan is precise when properly configured and gives real world figures (without the drivers response delay at the drag strip) and I have no good use for my daily driver because 60+ is not where I put my Micra to use.

All in all, maximum bhp is interesting enough but without the curve not telling me much I find. Also you will need the whole powerband or a very quick first gear to get impressive 0 - 60.

I also recommend to go to a car enthusiast day for all brands, preferably all Japanese brands alltogether and take one or two hours at the available dyno, you will see a lot of dyno runs with most cars owned by people curious enough about it. Seeing a car perform with a high torque curve across the board will be a long wait, I'm sure.
Some solid advice there! To be honest, I’m really interested in the AFR curve, to see how effective the map from Tornado is! I asked Carlton Tuning for injector duty cycle graphs as well but they can't provide these...
 
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1. Received the ECU from Tornado Systems today! Looks exactly the same as before, as expected. I guess I just expected it to come back purple or something lol!

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2. Currently in the process of getting some quotes for a quiet but free-flowing catback system made up, as I don't fancy the loudness of a Gizfab/Sportex/Janspeed, although I don't doubt their quality for a second. However, since my car is a daily, I'd rather not have a loud exhaust system. Plus my Micra is already going to be 'severely' loud when set up on bike bodies, so I don't want to blow my ears out. I know what you're thinking: bike bodies on a daily?! Yeah I'm thinking the same thing!

The plan is:
  • Bike Bodies + Remapped ECU + Adjustable FPR (will be selling my 1.4 ECU, along with all the stock inlet stuff and my GA16 airbox setup) - 14/01
  • Front Anti-Roll Bar + HardRace Front Drop Links - Soon After
  • Custom Catback (will be selling my old stock exhaust system if anyone wants it as a spare) - Soon After
  • New 4-2-1 (will be selling my old Janspeed 4-2-1) - Mid Feb
  • DYNO DYNO DYNO - Mid Feb
  • END OF THE PROJECT!
If on the dyno, it shows the car is running lean, then I'll swap the K12 (158cc/min) injectors over to my current QG15 (185cc/min I think) injectors and then do another run. However, that being said, Mark was confident that his map would work well on K12 injectors and that these would be sufficient. If it does turn out that the K12's are good enough as I am sure Mark is correct, then I'll be selling my QG15 injectors as well.
 
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Are you already aware where the bottleneck should be? Not to spoil your fun this will be a good go for the Micra you have but swapping injectors if needed after receiving a ecu performance box, isn't that a possible that this will act different or needs another adjustable fpr setting? Who will adjust the fpr then?

I am aware fuel delivery can be a bottleneck but with a adjustable fpr probably your good.
Then there is the intake, well those going big
Then there is the exhaust, well those going big
Do I understand that some upgraded cams like frank pointed out is also become have very important choosing?

I just ask this because I really want to fork out a reasonable amount for a wideband solution that will enable me to program an ecu myself. For the dyno, be sure to record it with your phone, your engine noise might tell you something. Driving with an upped part one by one and if needed for several miles will tell you something. I hope the before and after curve you will have there will tell me something. Please post the phone record :cool:
 

Low Rider

Poindexter
Moderator
Club Member
158cc/min won't be enough for fuelling on ITBs.

The plenum will likely dull the noise down but, from experience, you can't hear a typical Janspeed exhaust over a set of open ITBs up front. So, I wouldn't hold out for a quiet ride ;)
 
Are you already aware where the bottleneck should be? Not to spoil your fun this will be a good go for the Micra you have but swapping injectors if needed after receiving a ecu performance box, isn't that a possible that this will act different or needs another adjustable fpr setting? Who will adjust the fpr then?

I am aware fuel delivery can be a bottleneck but with a adjustable fpr probably your good.
Then there is the intake, well those going big
Then there is the exhaust, well those going big
Do I understand that some upgraded cams like frank pointed out is also become have very important choosing?

I just ask this because I really want to fork out a reasonable amount for a wideband solution that will enable me to program an ecu myself. For the dyno, be sure to record it with your phone, your engine noise might tell you something. Driving with an upped part one by one and if needed for several miles will tell you something. I hope the before and after curve you will have there will tell me something. Please post the phone record :cool:
I’ll be sure to record it!
And yeah it would be ideal to go for another remap after changing injectors but I don’t want to fork out for a second remap!
 
158cc/min won't be enough for fuelling on ITBs.

The plenum will likely dull the noise down but, from experience, you can't hear a typical Janspeed exhaust over a set of open ITBs up front. So, I wouldn't hold out for a quiet ride ;)
haha amazing! I love the ITB sound!
I’m concerned about the injectors now.
Mark was sure they would work well but I will just move over to the QG15’s then if need be when on the dyno.
It’s a bit bad now since the ECU has been mapped to run K12 injectors and not QG15’s :/
 
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Low Rider

Poindexter
Moderator
Club Member
haha amazing! I love the ITB sound!
I’m concerned about the injectors now.
Mark was sure they would work well but I will just move over to the QG15’s then if need be when on the dyno.
It’s a bit bad now since the ECU has been mapped to run K12 injectors and not QG15’s :/
I'm talking ear plugs / ear defender loud though.

That's because Mark's dyno seems to over estimate flywheel figures, so it gives the impression they'll support more power than they're capable of. If it's already been calibrated for stock injectors I guess you can 'suck it and see'.
 
I'm talking ear plugs / ear defender loud though.

That's because Mark's dyno seems to over estimate flywheel figures, so it gives the impression they'll support more power than they're capable of. If it's already been calibrated for stock injectors I guess you can 'suck it and see'.
Damn didn’t know it would be THAT loud!
And okay thanks for the info regarding injectors. Will try the K12 ones first.

thanks again
 
Damn didn’t know it would be THAT loud!
And okay thanks for the info regarding injectors. Will try the K12 ones first.

thanks again
Not sure on your ECU but I expect it's similar but the tuner will be able to look at the duty cycle and see if it's too high, if you need to change it should be a matter of changing the injector size in the ECU a vs them fine tuning, it shouldn't need wholesale changes in my opinion.
 
Not sure on your ECU but I expect it's similar but the tuner will be able to look at the duty cycle and see if it's too high, if you need to change it should be a matter of changing the injector size in the ECU a vs them fine tuning, it shouldn't need wholesale changes in my opinion.
Yeah I completely understand. BUT, none of my local dyno tuners can produce injector duty cycle graphs! So I am having to rely on AFR curve only to see whether the fueling is sufficient. And yeah it would just be a matter of changing injector size on ECU but no one has any experience with programming the coilpack ECU's except Mark at Tornado Systems.

Tbh, if the fueling is not sufficient with the K12 injectors, (as LowRider says), then I'm happy to just put the bigger QG15 injectors in and not remap. After all, I have been running the QG15 injectors on the standard ECU for a few months and its been fine. I understand that a remap is desirable when changing injectors but we are just talking about very small gains imo. And I'd rather be running on the slightly rich side rather than the slightly lean side.

Do please let me know if you think what I'm saying is daft etc, I'd rather learn tbh than protect my ego lol

EDIT - the CR12DE K12 injectors that the ECU has been mapped for are 216cc/min (not the 150cc/min that I initially though). The current QG15 injectors I use are 199cc/min (not the 185cc/min that I initially thought). 216cc/min will be fine to fuel ITB's so I have nothing to worry about.
 
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