Setting the ignition timing

reflexuk

reflexuk

Today I borrowed a strobe light to have a go at checking and setting the ignition timing. I understand the procedure is
1. make the crank pulley timing marks contrasting enough to see them clearly
2. run the engine up to temperature then turn engine off
3. unplug the no1 cylinder (nearest timing chain) spark lead and put timing light into it and onto spark plug
4. disconect the throttle position sensor plug (rhs of throttle body)
5. restart the engine blip the trottle a few times and get it to a 650rpm idle using plastic idle adjust screw (6mm hex key)
6. point the light at the pulley and read off timing by looking for the notch nearest the pin on the engine block
7. loosen 2x 12mm bolts securing distibutor and rotate it until the timing is 15deg before top dead centre (5th mark counting from the left)

Firstly, how do you know when you're doing 650 rpm idle? particularly if you don't have a rev counter or if like me you don't fully trust it

What happened to me -
disconect tps, start engine, revs shoot to 2200 rpm and stay there. fiddle with (damaged) tickover screw but can't get it down, unscrew butterfly stop grub screw, still can't get it below 1800, reconect tps and now it runs so slowly it stops, realise I can't do this and put everything back to how it was.

Help! Do I now need to solve that issue with my siezed tickover screw in this thread
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/throttle-body-ebb-style.50778/#post-538213
 
i,ve just checked mine, and it was 15deg @ 700 rpm, and 30deg @ 1200 rpm, so your idle setting is crucial ! (bear in mind mine has no idle control valve, and is running Ed,s wizztune map)
 
reflexuk said:
Today I borrowed a strobe light to have a go at checking and setting the ignition timing. I understand the procedure is
1. make the crank pulley timing marks contrasting enough to see them clearly
2. run the engine up to temperature then turn engine off
3. unplug the no1 cylinder (nearest timing chain) spark lead and put timing light into it and onto spark plug
4. disconect the throttle position sensor plug (rhs of throttle body)
5. restart the engine blip the trottle a few times and get it to a 650rpm idle using plastic idle adjust screw (6mm hex key)
6. point the light at the pulley and read off timing by looking for the notch nearest the pin on the engine block
7. loosen 2x 12mm bolts securing distibutor and rotate it until the timing is 15deg before top dead centre (5th mark counting from the left)

Firstly, how do you know when you're doing 650 rpm idle? particularly if you don't have a rev counter or if like me you don't fully trust it

What happened to me -
disconect tps, start engine, revs shoot to 2200 rpm and stay there. fiddle with (damaged) tickover screw but can't get it down, unscrew butterfly stop grub screw, still can't get it below 1800, reconect tps and now it runs so slowly it stops, realise I can't do this and put everything back to how it was.

Help! Do I now need to solve that issue with my siezed tickover screw in this thread
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/throttle-body-ebb-style.50778/#post-538213
Click to expand...

Dont hold me to anything on this one. it sounds that you are advancing it but at least 20+ When looking at the wheel notches from the drivers side. The notch second from the left (left being the dash of the car) is the standard timing setting and 5 degree up further up the line. I would leave the tps in tbh eh? Did with mine, unless i missed something.
 
frank said:
i,ve just checked mine, and it was 15deg @ 700 rpm, and 30deg @ 1200 rpm, so your idle setting is crucial ! (bear in mind mine has no idle control valve, and is running Ed,s wizztune map)
Click to expand...
frank do you ahve to take tps off? and do all that other stuff?
 
SirChris said:
Dont hold me to anything on this one. it sounds that you are advancing it but at least 20+ When looking at the wheel notches from the drivers side. The notch second from the left (left being the dash of the car) is the standard timing setting and 5 degree up further up the line. I would leave the tps in tbh eh? Did with mine, unless i missed something.
Click to expand...
the 2nd from the left is tdc (0 deg) eh :)
 
most strobe lights are induction sensing so no need to unplug the spark wires and the spark misfire will also affect the results and flood/ruin the cat with fuel.

no need to unplug tps cos it gives a different result compared to when its normally always connected.

no need to stop engine, adjust timing while its warm n idling.

warm idle should be 750 and cold idle 1300.
without a tacho, best get hold of a consult diagnostic software. I use a blazt consult cable with nissan datascan (only few quid) on my laptop to see & diagnose everything, plus you use the program to force 15deg while leaving everything connected for an accurate result (when the consult says 15deg you set the strobe to match)

another point that ppl may not be aware of. the prehistoric waxstat fast idle mechanism tends to seize with old age and affect idling while the electronic IAV controls the same thing but tends to crust up with carbon.

so my usual advice is to:
1. discard the old waxstat mechanism
2. clean/loosen the IAV and calibrate it with consult

wrote a how guide here
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-19#post-446256

connect the strobe light to power and hook the induction sensing end on spark lead #1, loosen the two dizzy 12mm bolts till you can rotate it, warm engine up to 80C

now at this point we simultaneously calibrate the dizzys timing to match the ecu's timing whilst always maintaining a 750rpm idle, so:

5. under 'active test' in datascan, press 'Set Base Idle' which forces the timing to 15deg during closed tps irregardless of idle speed
6. adjust the idle bleed screw behind the TB till the consult says 750rpm
7. check the crank pulley timing is on 15deg (notches on the pulley left - right in degrees are -5, TDC, +5, +10, +15, +20)
8. if the timings off, rotate the dizzy body till its at 15deg, the rev will change, repeat step 6-7
9. with the dizzy matching the ecu timing, cancel the 'Set base idle' mode
10. check and adjust the warm idle to 750rpm via the bleed screw and we're done.
11. recheck she fast idles properly when the engines cold.
 
SirChris said:
+15 ? so is -5 when you retard the ignition?
Click to expand...
the notches are 5 deg after tdc, then tdc, then 5 deg before, then 10 deg before etc chris, and if you are boosting with a stock ecu then zero is safer but it makes the car hesitant low down (and hotter exh temps)
 
pollyp said:
no need to unplug tps cos it gives a different result compared to when its normally always connected.
Click to expand...
haynes says to disconnect it eh paul, i,ve just tried it out with it left connected, and it was too advanced and was well down on power
 
I am new to Micras and datascan, does the link to the standard ecu and can you read all the settings etc.... ?

If so what do i need and where can i get it ?
 
unplugging never worked for me cos it gave inconsistant timing/idle result once reconnected, hence i force 15deg electronically instead.

before physically setting the dizzy at 15deg did you check the ecu was running 15deg or were u assuming it was suppose to be?
 
pollyp said:
unplugging never worked for me cos it gave inconsistant timing/idle result once reconnected, hence i force 15deg electronically instead.

before physically setting the dizzy at 15deg did you check the ecu was running 15deg or were u assuming it was suppose to be?
Click to expand...
i have no consult lead or software paul, so i set it as per haynes instructions :) and ours have no crank sensor eh, so the ecu has no baseline setting until you set the timing "manually"
 
I find it hard to beleive this fundamental topic hasn't been covered to death here on the forum before.
Today I tried to find a setting I liked by trial and error. I lifted the front of the dizzy 2mm (advancing if I understand it proppely) then dropped it 4mm and drove again and it seemed more willing, particularly at low revs and small throttle openings.
Now, I'm off shopping for a consult cable and then a fix for my dodgy idle screw ;)
 
you use a 'Consult' adapter cable to connect the ecu to either a dedicated diagnostic reader or a laptop (usb or serial port) with diagnostic software via the diagnostic port under the drivers fusebox.

I use a Blazt usb consult cable and installed nissan datascan 1 diagnostic software on my laptop to view realtime telemetry and perform active tests such as override sensors n actuators or turn injectors on/off.

I only tested it works on my 98 mid-facelift ecu and not on the earlier smaller basic ecu's and haven't tested on a facelift ecu yet so can be sure if it's compatible.

dunno if Blazt exists anymore but can find more info about supplier at nissandatascan.com

http://home.exetel.com.au/nds/NDSI/index.php?content=buynow
 
frank said:
i have no consult lead or software paul, so i set it as per haynes instructions :) and ours have no crank sensor eh, so the ecu has no baseline setting until you set the timing "manually"
Click to expand...

the optical crank sensor on our preface is in the dizzy ain't it?

the stock ecu map round idle normally runs round 15deg provided the other sensor readings correct and all we're doing when adjusting the dizzy is to make sure it matches what the ecu says (when the map fires 15deg the dizzy also fires 15deg)
 
pollyp said:
the optical crank sensor on our preface is in the dizzy ain't it?
Click to expand...
aye, pre-coilpack k11,s have a the cam sensor in the dizzy eh paul, which moves when you turn the dizzy in its slots (ie, adjustable :) )
and the stock map has 15deg as its idle setting, but you still have to sync the timing manually tho eh
 
I still can't get mine to tick over at 750rpm tps connected or not. How far the revs rise when I disconnect it does seem to depend on the dizzy position though. I posted earlier about feeling more torque 2mm away from where I got it but the fuel economy went poor and I noticed it seemed weak climbing my reference hill. All I've been able to do is put it back to where I got it, suffer the 950rpm tickover and leave it alone. Just fyi the idle screw airway in tb is blocked and butterfly valve grubscrew removed! I don't understand...
 
reflexuk said:
I still can't get mine to tick over at 750rpm tps connected or not. How far the revs rise when I disconnect it does seem to depend on the dizzy position though. I posted earlier about feeling more torque 2mm away from where I got it but the fuel economy went poor and I noticed it seemed weak climbing my reference hill. All I've been able to do is put it back to where I got it, suffer the 950rpm tickover and leave it alone. Just fyi the idle screw airway in tb is blocked and butterfly valve grubscrew removed! I don't understand...
Click to expand...
Seized fast idle waxstat cam mechanism removed?
 
pollyp said:
most strobe lights are induction sensing so no need to unplug the spark wires and the spark misfire will also affect the results and flood/ruin the cat with fuel.

no need to unplug tps cos it gives a different result compared to when its normally always connected.

no need to stop engine, adjust timing while its warm n idling.

warm idle should be 750 and cold idle 1300.
without a tacho, best get hold of a consult diagnostic software. I use a blazt consult cable with nissan datascan (only few quid) on my laptop to see & diagnose everything, plus you use the program to force 15deg while leaving everything connected for an accurate result (when the consult says 15deg you set the strobe to match)

another point that ppl may not be aware of. the prehistoric waxstat fast idle mechanism tends to seize with old age and affect idling while the electronic IAV controls the same thing but tends to crust up with carbon.

so my usual advice is to:
1. discard the old waxstat mechanism
2. clean/loosen the IAV and calibrate it with consult

wrote a how guide here
http://www.micra.org.uk/threads/pollymobiles-rebuild.35251/page-19#post-446256

connect the strobe light to power and hook the induction sensing end on spark lead #1, loosen the two dizzy 12mm bolts till you can rotate it, warm engine up to 80C

now at this point we simultaneously calibrate the dizzys timing to match the ecu's timing whilst always maintaining a 750rpm idle, so:

5. under 'active test' in datascan, press 'Set Base Idle' which forces the timing to 15deg during closed tps irregardless of idle speed
6. adjust the idle bleed screw behind the TB till the consult says 750rpm
7. check the crank pulley timing is on 15deg (notches on the pulley left - right in degrees are -5, TDC, +5, +10, +15, +20)
8. if the timings off, rotate the dizzy body till its at 15deg, the rev will change, repeat step 6-7
9. with the dizzy matching the ecu timing, cancel the 'Set base idle' mode
10. check and adjust the warm idle to 750rpm via the bleed screw and we're done.
11. recheck she fast idles properly when the engines cold.
Click to expand...

I did all this but could not get the idle to 750 I had turned the idle screw as far as it would go. It was only when the radiator fan came on periodically for a few seconds that it would go from 850 down around 750. Could this be because I deleted the pcv system and blocked of the pipe going to manifold, so the vacuum would be different maybe?
 

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