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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
yeah the rubbery steering wheel grip that you grip onto just detaches itself from the metal steering wheel frame inside and just rolls about.
R-reg once suggested injecting superglue inside with a needle syringe to re-bond it.

just emailed JE bout ordering another set of rings and if there's any recommended piston temps, oil grade, honing specs and if he thinks this is a badly machined bore issue.

over the next few weeks I'll be removing the engine while dad's still here before his holiday and then once assessed and received the new rings I'll pop down to Ed.
Ed I'll give you a call beforehand to check which weekend ur available before commuting down eh?
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Jeez paul, i've gotta admit i'd have been threatening it with a hammer by now. Maybe even let it watch as i destroyed something, just so it understood where i was coming from. I really do hope you get this sorted one way or another. :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Jeez paul, i've gotta admit i'd have been threatening it with a hammer by now. Maybe even let it watch as i destroyed something, just so it understood where i was coming from. I really do hope you get this sorted one way or another. :)
or a flame thrower or just:


lol have to close to that point but I'm bound to do that to her one day eventually hehe
 

SirChris

Educated Bodger
Paul just send what you got and get Ed to buy in the appropriate bits. You need this bloody engine boosting... So I can have a go

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Paul just send what you got and get Ed to buy in the appropriate bits. You need this bloody engine boosting... So I can have a go

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4
just remembered Ed was gonna research into sourcing the best rings for it so I emailed JE to pause the XC7150 ring order for now.

when I have time I'll take out the engine, disassemble n check, then drive down to Ed one weekend with the block, pistons & head
 

SirChris

Educated Bodger
just remembered Ed was gonna research into sourcing the best rings for it so I emailed JE to pause the XC7150 ring order for now.

when I have time I'll take out the engine, disassemble n check, then drive down to Ed one weekend with the block, pistons & head
I live 30 mins from fusion if you need a place to crash for a night you are more than welcome.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
this is how oily the cylinders currently look like after driving with the stock exhaust setup and 0w30 synth oil


also recorded a datalog with the stock setup. wanted to connect the wideband up to see what the AFR doing with the stock exhaust but I only have the one o2 port in the mani, cba to weld another on the downpipe, so I'll have to fit the wideband and leave the o2 and will have to run it open-loop. also placed the cam right at the gauges to show the manifold vacuum and AFR.


thats an odd afr. idles quite lean and clearing the self-learn made it worse (cos the o2 ain't there to correct it), low/mid throttle abit rich but at WOT throughout the rev its like +14.7afr till it begins to richen up at the very high end :eek: that must be too lean and wrong?

#checks stock map#



nope well that's what the stock map says and does. how odd
 

frank

Club Member
this is how oily the cylinders currently look like after driving with the stock exhaust setup and 0w30 synth oil



thats an odd afr. idles quite lean and clearing the self-learn made it worse (cos the o2 ain't there to correct it), low/mid throttle abit rich but at WOT throughout the rev its like +14.7afr till it begins to richen up at the very high end :eek: that must be too lean and wrong?
quite a pool eh paul ! you will still be drinking about 1/2 L a week at that rate.
and "WOT" and "full load" can be quite different tho surely ?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
here's an interesting history of the how the pistons look between all that oil and exhaust changing

10w40 semi-synthetic with turbo after rebuilding with stiffer oil expanders (piston 1-4)



then drove 500miles during trip to JAE and fitted a hotter thermostat.

10w60 synthetic with turbo (piston 1-4)



0w30 synthetic with turbo (piston 1-4)



0w30 synthetic with stock exhaust (piston 1-4)



the very thick oil kinda helped reduce the dampness slightly while the very thin 0w30 and constant inlet vacuum of a stock setup made it worse
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
a rough calc at the cost of rebuilding and bedding the engine again based on previous expenditures would be

HG £35
piston ring set £166
new main & big end bearing shells £63
coolant o-ring £4
engine block machining & cleaning £100+
fuel filter £7

to just bed the engine in up to 1000m

16L mineral oil £66
6 oil filters £25
197L fuel £278

total cost of rebuilding & bedding engine = £744+ :eek: this season is gonna hurt again
 

frank

Club Member
i,ve been doing some testing paul :)
1st pic is the oil control rings set with 4kg of friction, and the 2nd one is 6kg (cyl1 and 2 on the same engine, after 5 mins of running)

PA170079.JPG
PA170080.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
cheers frank.
when I fitted the stiffer expanders and ran it awhile, it made very little difference to the oil pooling. must be a bore finish issue.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
tday was just looking through autotrader and got abit excited when I spotted a very clean 56k 97 1.3 slx that's a match of pollymobile1 and it's nearby and only £545! :)
was very tempted to pop over to check it out.



calmed heartbeat and called em...sorry its been sold afraid :(
BAH sold like hotcake. would've been a perfect daily runner.
aw well
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
his looks like a steeper 50-60deg finer scratches?

whereas mine appears to be a shallow 45deg course scratches

 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
btw anyone know where I can get them tapered ring compressors u see in factories? cos the traditional ratchet clamp type compressors are such a pita to use especially when whacking an oversized ring into the bores and god knows if the numerous times I've whacked the rings in without full insertion has damaged the rings.

the solid tapered compressors make it look easy
 

frank

Club Member
i doubt if the angle matters much paul, but yours do look very coarse eh ! and i struggle with the damn ratchet clamp too :) if the ring end matches the inner overlap they stick eh :mad: i usually turn the compressor if that happens
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i doubt if the angle matters much paul, but yours do look very coarse eh ! and i struggle with the damn ratchet clamp too :) if the ring end matches the inner overlap they stick eh :mad: i usually turn the compressor if that happens
yea the scratches do appear quite deep

and yea damn cheapo ratchet compressors. they don't even fully compress the rings uniformly, they're more oval-like so there's massive gaps both ends where the ring ends do stick out straight as you n I find, so I reposition till the ends are not in the gaping holes.

seeing this video I SOOO need to get a proper tapered ring compressor, it's effortless n compresses the rings uniformly all round


wonder what size it should be at the tapered end? dia of the pistons or dia of the bore? I think dia of the pistons so the rings tuck into the larger bore much easier
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
no one seems to sell tapered ring compressors thats 71.4 - 71.5mm
smallest one are 75mm

wanna get a machinist to custom machine one but god knows how much that'll be. wish I had a lathe I could use
 

frank

Club Member
the bottom of the taper will be the same size as the bore eh paul, and the top will be the same size as the unsprung rings.
but i still think is a tension issue personally mate, the oil rings should have smoothed away some of those scratches by now and shown a load of shine patches like my corsa piston one did, but they are only riding over the surface atm
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the bottom of the taper will be the same size as the bore eh paul, and the top will be the same size as the unsprung rings.
but i still think is a tension issue personally mate, the oil rings should have smoothed away some of those scratches by now and shown a load of shine patches like my corsa piston one did, but they are only riding over the surface atm
gonna have to be a custom made compressor

can't increase the expanders anymore cos A: since ed's offered to remachine, I may as well start over B: cba with all that laborious ring stretching.

yes after this many miles that rings and bores should've bedded by now but the bores still appear as rough as they did at first so I think it's too late, they're worn in as much as they can but the bore's just too course.
 
Ring compressors... luxury!

I use a jubilee clip

here is a closer pic of my cylinders (ignore the oil)



look a lot shallower than yours
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I think the lighting and whether the bores were oiled also has an effect on appearance.

ur pic seem to have a single flash light source that highlights only afew honing marks,
whereas mine uses the cam phone LED, room overhead light and a handheld inspection lamp, so light is bouncing all over from much more scratches.

the bores in ur pic were oiled so gives that glossy dark reflective look at the sides,
whereas the bores on my pics were wiped dry with carb cleaner beforehand so all the scratches appear without the gloss

but even with those considerations, look at this history of the bores appearance:

2011-06-01 - first time I brought the forged piston engine off Noddie it was already assembled. didn't wanna take the head or pistons out to disturb the HG or rings so just ran it.
since the first start it's been pooling oil on top.
after few k of bedding it looked like this



2012-05-15 - a spare block was remachined by my cousins machinist and looked like this.
was reusing the old JE rings cos was told they hardly bedded in. in the end it still pooled oil



2012-11-12 - was later found it was bored abit too tight to the JE spec so this third time the same block was rehoned larger by the same machinist of me cousins to the exact min 71.5mm bore.
With new rings and bearings I restarted the bedding in



2013-08-13 - it still pooled with oil.
after afew k of bedding this is how it looked recently. dunno if its the lighting or the cam but you can see just how rough it is



so yeah I agree jonez I think it's been machined either way too roughly, wasn't perfectly straight, round or was too loose/tight

this time everything has to be done to perfection with a smoother suitable finish.
I've read that using a torque plate with the intended HG and kept warm during boring/honing and checking end gaps ensures accurate consistancy, is that right?

cos when I check the end gaps on a bare block at room temp, I get slightly different end gaps when the rings pointing at 12 or 3oclock
 

frank

Club Member
here,s the bores of the high comp corsa piston block paul, after about 1hr of running (the low comp one ran for 2 weeks, and has similar wear, but it is assembled atm)

PA210086.JPG
PA210091.JPG

PA210095.JPG


you can see the matt grey finish at the bottom of the bore eh (where the rings dont reach) and where the rings have bedded into the bore
 

frank

Club Member
btw anyone know where I can get them tapered ring compressors u see in factories? cos the traditional ratchet clamp type compressors are such a pita to use especially when whacking an oversized ring into the bores and god knows if the numerous times I've whacked the rings in without full insertion has damaged the rings.

the solid tapered compressors make it look easy
here,s my new ghetto ring compressor paul :)

PA290148.JPG
PA290149.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
A rebuild I've just done.

And for reference what a proper diamond honed bore looks like.

looks fab.
thanks for the reference Ed ;)

since my long work hours has taken over my life again I won't have any personal time to work on the car this winter so it may have to wait till early next year unless things calm down
 
Very impressive your effort on these engines over the last years. Have you kept counting how many times you pulled em apart? :)
So when I see this, I come to the conclusion that it isn't possible to run the CG13DE(T) lasting/firm at about 160 hp's. Would you agree with that?
Greetings from Switzerland
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Very impressive your effort on these engines over the last years. Have you kept counting how many times you pulled em apart? :)
So when I see this, I come to the conclusion that it isn't possible to run the CG13DE(T) lasting/firm at about 160 hp's. Would you agree with that?
Greetings from Switzerland
thanks, I've lost count of how many times but is part of the continuous R&D when pushing this far.

running 160bhp reliably with stock internals without blowing up is possible if done right to a high quality but it won't be cheap or easy or quick to do and is all dependent on application, quality of tuning, preparation, attention to detail, maintenance, finance and many other factors.

ppl need to consider the fast/good/cheap rule on any project/purchase.
good quality + quick = expensive
good quality + cheap = slow
fast + cheap = poor quality
 
Ok, yeah that old rule which so often shows it's truth.

I'm thrilled to see the experience this Aussi gets in the next couple of month with his CG13:

http://www.micra.com.au/community/message.php?messageid=86330

I guess your following his project already.


I kind of fell in love with this K10:

http://people-power.jp/hup0801/kyusha/march/historyek10.html

But to get a "Super Turbo" in my country would be a very hard task. So I'm thinking about getting a "Super S" and make a CG13DET swap into it, then give it that very nice Nissan Rally paint shop :rolleyes: (<-- Me dreaming)

But, sorry, I don't want to bring "off topic" stuff into your build thread.

Good luck with your little rocket, mate
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
cheers
I hope I'll eventually get some time to work on the car once work has settled down.

yeah I check Danvillans cool proj from time to time whenever I can
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
now that my job workload has reduced a tiny bit, I can least think about what my car plans are.

before any major engine work, my next plan is to
  • swap from stock exhaust back to the turbo exhaust,
  • finish welding the turbo exhaust mid support bracket,
  • reweld the mid to rear exhaust pipes with pre-bent tube corners (to get rid of the nasty press bent corners and rerouted to clear the suspension better)
  • corner balance & align the coilovers,
  • take her on a trackday to heat up the forged pistons fully
if the trackday heat solves the oil issue then this engine will only be for the track (and will have to either buy & fit another spare stock engine for daily use or buy another micra as a daily).
if its still oily on track then this engine needs rebuilding completely or resort back to stock internals.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
for corner balancing first lets resolve the scales issue.
rather than using the puny 200kg scales with that ruggles scale frame i welded up back in Jan, I've decided its easier to just get a heavy duty scale that can handle the cars weight with less hassle (the heaviest front corner last time was bout 270kg).
a proper corner balance scale is a nice expensive luxury but at over £800 is beyond my zero income budget.
instead I've found an affordable 300kg digital parcel scale on ebay for £59 delivered

$T2eC16VHJG!FFmqCqgN)BSfo,ELHhQ~~60_12.JPG


Digital Heavy Duty Platform Industrial Parcel Scale Dual Capacities 150 & 300Kg
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171183082671?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

problem with the previous 200kg digital scales was it automatically holds the reading after 3sec, so after I adjusted one coilover I had to jack up all the other wheels to reset the scales which was a pita.

this 300kg scale has a separate Hold button so perhaps it can read the weight continuously?
I've ordered one to test out before buying the other 3.
 
They should work well Paul :)
The only advantage I can tell you of having a proper set of balancing scales is the weights are all on one screen and on the scale itself.
I used to corner weight my cars on bathroom scales. Providing you're weighing all 4 wheels at a time you'll be fine :)

Don't forget to weigh your whole car beforehand :)
 
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